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-   -   Germany at Olympic qualification (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1343953)

Bure80 02-07-2013 11:01 AM

Germany at Olympic qualification
 
Roster:
Rankel - Hospelt - Ma. Müller
Gogulla - Barta - Wolf (C)
Flaake - Festerling - Wolf
Kink - Schütz - Reimer
Braun - Baxmann
Goc - Mo. Müller
Petermann - Kohl
Endras (Zepp)

7.2. Germany - Netherlands
8.2. Germany - Italy
10.2. Germany - Austria

Today against de Netherlands it should be a easy win.
Hardest rival should be Austria but im confident.

Maverick41 02-07-2013 02:42 PM

Well, they beat the Netherlands 5-1, but that was not exactly a great performance.
Especially the 2nd period was pretty bad.

The best players for each team were easy to pick, Barta was amazing, and the Dutch goalie was very impressive.

But a win is a win. Next up is Italy and they will have to play better if they want to win that one.

BalticWarrior 02-08-2013 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick41 (Post 59233909)
Well, they beat the Netherlands 5-1, but that was not exactly a great performance.
Especially the 2nd period was pretty bad.

The best players for each team were easy to pick, Barta was amazing, and the Dutch goalie was very impressive.

But a win is a win. Next up is Italy and they will have to play better if they want to win that one.

Same as Latvia-GB 6:2.but game was really sloppy, i guess its the nerves and understimating of the opponent :laugh:

GermanRocket7 02-10-2013 10:31 AM

So we're officially the joke of the year. Losing against Italy and drawing Austria is just plain horrible and I sure hope heads are finally starting to roll in DEB's white-collar departments. We need a new look in the management, we need new coaching, and most of all we sorely lack an actual youth development worth mentioning.

Francesa 02-10-2013 10:32 AM

http://twitter.com/Sz1909_Szemberg/s...41866104328192
Quote:

First time a German men's team doesn't qualify for an Olympic hockey tournament, 2-2 tie with Austria on home ice not enough.

vorky 02-10-2013 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanRocket7 (Post 59421641)
So we're officially the joke of the year. Losing against Italy and drawing Austria is just plain horrible and I sure hope heads are finally starting to roll in DEB's white-collar departments. We need a new look in the management, we need new coaching, and most of all we sorely lack an actual youth development worth mentioning.

MHL is there. Call me crazy, but I can imagine german MHL team, especially if there are austrian and czech. We will see. Of course, MHL is not solution for german hockey program.

BalticWarrior 02-10-2013 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanRocket7 (Post 59421641)
So we're officially the joke of the year. Losing against Italy and drawing Austria is just plain horrible and I sure hope heads are finally starting to roll in DEB's white-collar departments. We need a new look in the management, we need new coaching, and most of all we sorely lack an actual youth development worth mentioning.

I would say Belarus.

JVR 02-10-2013 11:53 AM

Maybe this will change something...who am I kidding?

cyberdork 02-10-2013 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanRocket7 (Post 59421641)
So we're officially the joke of the year. Losing against Italy and drawing Austria is just plain horrible and I sure hope heads are finally starting to roll in DEB's white-collar departments. We need a new look in the management, we need new coaching, and most of all we sorely lack an actual youth development worth mentioning.

As far as I understand a sport which achieves Olympic participation receives additional government funding for its youth development programs.
Meaning that after this disaster there will be severe cuts in those funds for the hockey youth :(

Bure80 02-10-2013 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanRocket7 (Post 59421641)
We need a new look in the management, we need new coaching, and most of all we sorely lack an actual youth development worth mentioning.

I think the development of youth players wasn't so bad over the last years.
We never had so much players in NA. Especially Mannheim does a good job.
But this could be a step back.
The Olympic tounament is the only hockey watched by a big audience in germany.
No hockey in the media means less young kids who choose to play hockey.
Another bad fact is that non olympic sports get less money for youth developent
in germany.
So this really was a disaster for german hockey.

ficohok* 02-10-2013 01:05 PM

As much as I am happy because of Austria (reasons posted in another thread ;-) ) in same time I feel sorry for Germans... They played couple of good WC tournaments in recent years. In 2010. they finished 4th and year later they also reach 1/4 finals. Last year they were out, but also had some key players missing. Call me crazy but I think that you would be at Olympics had Uwe Krupp led this team.

cyberdork 02-10-2013 03:54 PM

What might be even sadder than Germany not qualifying for Sochi is the lack of media interest. It's now 6hrs after the game and only one of the main newspapers (welt.de) has a story about it hiding deep down somewhere in its sports section.

Dfire 02-11-2013 02:57 AM

We are more skilled than Austria and outshot them 38:19 but Austria had the better work ethic and was mentally stronger all throughout the tournament. Therefore, they deserve it.

It really is a disaster for the development of the sport in Germany for two reasons:

- youth hockey loses over a million euros of funding
- the olympic games would have been broadcasted at primetime to a very large audience. And with 6 or so NHL players there would have been the potential for a decent showing.

GermanRocket7 02-12-2013 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bure80 (Post 59428765)
I think the development of youth players wasn't so bad over the last years.
We never had so much players in NA. Especially Mannheim does a good job.
But this could be a step back.
The Olympic tounament is the only hockey watched by a big audience in germany.
No hockey in the media means less young kids who choose to play hockey.
Another bad fact is that non olympic sports get less money for youth developent
in germany.
So this really was a disaster for german hockey.

I basically tend to differ, especially with the part about Mannheim. Why?

Let's break it down a bit.

Hockey, as much as I hate to admit it, is one of the marginal sports in Germany that basically has its core of fans and such, but doesn't qualify for a broader audience due to a) lack of media coverage and b) a pathetic league.

We all know that hockey's fairly expensive due to the protection, so a lot of potentially interested kids are turned away by that, too, which results in even less junior players even checking out the sport. We're on the same boat here, so far.

BUT: the actual junior teams in Germany are, quite frankly, a joke. Players who do have talent are being wasted in junior leagues that are neither professional, nor skillful. If anyone ever has the chance, he bails out to North America - and for a reason.

Most of the DEL teams -and Mannheim is included in this list IMHO- don't give jack **** about their own junior players and barely play them, if at all. Instead, they try to lure some wannabe with stone hands to Germany, who might potentially get a double citizenship due to a German Shepherd sleeping in their houses. I've seen many young players come and go -some undeniably gifted with potentially NHL-level talent- and not getting a chance to play in the German Elite League due to the tendency of going with the more reliable player in a more-or-less proven veteran player from NA.

I wish I could go into more detail, but I'm short on time right now due to exams, but I'll definitely get back to this sometime next week and point out the 10 major flaws of our youth development.

Tronador 02-13-2013 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanRocket7 (Post 59554685)
I basically tend to differ, especially with the part about Mannheim. Why?

Let's break it down a bit.

Hockey, as much as I hate to admit it, is one of the marginal sports in Germany that basically has its core of fans and such, but doesn't qualify for a broader audience due to a) lack of media coverage and b) a pathetic league.

We all know that hockey's fairly expensive due to the protection, so a lot of potentially interested kids are turned away by that, too, which results in even less junior players even checking out the sport. We're on the same boat here, so far.

BUT: the actual junior teams in Germany are, quite frankly, a joke. Players who do have talent are being wasted in junior leagues that are neither professional, nor skillful. If anyone ever has the chance, he bails out to North America - and for a reason.

Most of the DEL teams -and Mannheim is included in this list IMHO- don't give jack **** about their own junior players and barely play them, if at all. Instead, they try to lure some wannabe with stone hands to Germany, who might potentially get a double citizenship due to a German Shepherd sleeping in their houses. I've seen many young players come and go -some undeniably gifted with potentially NHL-level talent- and not getting a chance to play in the German Elite League due to the tendency of going with the more reliable player in a more-or-less proven veteran player from NA.

I wish I could go into more detail, but I'm short on time right now due to exams, but I'll definitely get back to this sometime next week and point out the 10 major flaws of our youth development.

If i would be a young German player, I would try to do everything to get a chance in a Junior league in Finland, Sweden, Switzerland or in the US. Would it be that difficult for a German prospect to get a chance in the Swedish Junior leagues? I wonder, why there are much more players from Hungary, Switzerland, Austria, Denmark playing there...
I don't think the DNL is that bad, but nevertheless, I would prefer the mentioned leagues.

Puckway 02-14-2013 08:28 AM

I didn´t follow that in the last years, so I gotta ask:

How many foreign players are allowed per team in the DEL?
And how many are allowed in Switzerland?

If I remember correctly that was one huge reason for bad youth development 10 years ago. I have the bad feeling it still is...

hage 02-14-2013 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puckway (Post 59697235)
I didn´t follow that in the last years, so I gotta ask:

How many foreign players are allowed per team in the DEL?
And how many are allowed in Switzerland?

If I remember correctly that was one huge reason for bad youth development 10 years ago. I have the bad feeling it still is...

In the DEL every team can dress 10 imports per game. As if that wasn't too much allready, many North Americans can get a German passport easily, thus in reality the number of foreign-trained players is even higher.

If you look at the rosters at http://www.eliteprospects.com/league...hp?leagueid=26 you can see players with dual nationalities.

Augsburg has only 2 German forwards, Ingolstadt only 6 German-trained skaters. These players usually make up the third and fourth lines.

In Switzerland I think there's just 4 imports per team

jonas2244 02-14-2013 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hage (Post 59711893)
In Switzerland I think there's just 4 imports per team

That's correct. Each team can sign up to 8 imports a season but just 4 can play in a game.

modano 02-14-2013 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hage (Post 59711893)
In the DEL every team can dress 10 imports per game.

Wrong. They can only dress 9 since this season.

Puckway 02-15-2013 03:20 AM

Uh, still way to much. And thanks for the info.

On the one hand I thought that if they don´t make it against those teams they really don´t deserve to be in the Olympics (even though they were better). But this is so, soo bad for German hockey... *$%*

Dfire 02-15-2013 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hage (Post 59711893)
In the DEL every team can dress 10 imports per game. As if that wasn't too much allready, many North Americans can get a German passport easily, thus in reality the number of foreign-trained players is even higher.

If you look at the rosters at http://www.eliteprospects.com/league...hp?leagueid=26 you can see players with dual nationalities.

Augsburg has only 2 German forwards, Ingolstadt only 6 German-trained skaters. These players usually make up the third and fourth lines.

In Switzerland I think there's just 4 imports per team

I think the discussion is going in a wrong direction here. We didn't not qualify because we lack skill or player material. The skill level we iced was superior to the other teams. We were mentally weaker in crucial moment in my opinion.

Maverick41 02-15-2013 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dfire (Post 59757057)
I think the discussion is going in a wrong direction here. We didn't not qualify because we lack skill or player material. The skill level we iced was superior to the other teams. We were mentally weaker in crucial moment in my opinion.

While I think that the points raised regarding what is wrong with hockey in Germany are mostly valid, I agree that lack of skill was not the issue here.

Actually I think we have more talented young players right now than we have had for a while. The problem really is that these players and coaches could not get the job done. Whether it was the burden of being the favourites or just plain mental weakness, fact is that they did not deliver.

Vipers31 02-15-2013 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dfire (Post 59757057)
I think the discussion is going in a wrong direction here. We didn't not qualify because we lack skill or player material. The skill level we iced was superior to the other teams. We were mentally weaker in crucial moment in my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick41 (Post 59761027)
While I think that the points raised regarding what is wrong with hockey in Germany are mostly valid, I agree that lack of skill was not the issue here.

Actually I think we have more talented young players right now than we have had for a while. The problem really is that these players and coaches could not get the job done. Whether it was the burden of being the favourites or just plain mental weakness, fact is that they did not deliver.

I fully agree with these two things. I find it kind of absurd that the DEB's officials are getting all the blame, and the players seem to receive as little over this atrocity as I've ever seen from the general public. They played and maybe were coached horribly. There's no reason within German hockey for the group of players we've been putting on the ice to lose 4-12 (or whatever it was) against Norway, sending us into this tournament, and there losing to Italy or Austria. From what I see, German hockey is actually in better shape than it was a decade ago, when we got our minimal results under Zach. The players just blew it.

Vipers31 02-15-2013 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanRocket7 (Post 59554685)
Most of the DEL teams -and Mannheim is included in this list IMHO- don't give jack **** about their own junior players and barely play them, if at all. Instead, they try to lure some wannabe with stone hands to Germany, who might potentially get a double citizenship due to a German Shepherd sleeping in their houses. I've seen many young players come and go -some undeniably gifted with potentially NHL-level talent- and not getting a chance to play in the German Elite League due to the tendency of going with the more reliable player in a more-or-less proven veteran player from NA.

I wish I could go into more detail, but I'm short on time right now due to exams, but I'll definitely get back to this sometime next week and point out the 10 major flaws of our youth development.

Well, I'm looking forward to hearing about that potential "NHL-level talent" that's being wasted. I strongly disagree with that. German teams enjoy having good Germans. With the limitations to foreigners (even at a still relatively large number), the good German DEL-calibre players are very expensive. Getting young ones that can contribute a little is big, for almost all teams. But the reality is that there isn't a ton of DEL-level, let alone NHL-level talent coming up constantly. The actually talented players, as you rightfully said yourself, head to NA to give themselves the best chances for a great career. I don't think young players are mistreated, in that sense. They aren't getting great coaching, but outside of Mannheim and Berlin, there's no money in junior coaching, so what would one expect.

The biggest problem for young players is the gap between juniors (DNL) and the pro level. Then you have the huge difference between 1st division and the DEL. It takes most of even the decent talents a huge amount of time to get acclimated to the pro game and to get ready to positively contribute in the league. But it's a competetive league, so teams have to look out for their wins. There's just no system in place that makes a transition for the young guys remotely ready. Teams are starting to look into how to handle things most effectively with all kinds of loans, but at the end of the day, that doesn't change the gaps, which few can take on at an early age. Most Germans growing into key roles at their clubs can't take those before turning 25.

vorky 06-26-2013 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorky (Post 59425025)
MHL is there. Call me crazy, but I can imagine german MHL team, especially if there are austrian and czech. We will see. Of course, MHL is not solution for german hockey program.

as I said, (half)german team in MHL http://www.redbull.com/cs/Satellite/...21243352030710


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