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-   -   Vanek's Success: How Much Credit Does CoHo Deserve? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1344065)

stokes84 02-07-2013 02:07 PM

Vanek's Success: How Much Credit Does CoHo Deserve?
 
Title says it all.

1972 02-07-2013 02:09 PM

Simple answer, lots.

Vanek has benefited from playing with him and vise versa.

Old Navy Goat 02-07-2013 02:10 PM

He deserves some as he plays a better part on that line than Adam did. He drives to the net and opens lanes up for Pominville and Vanek. He also isn't offensively inept so can take advantage of some of Vanek's passes.

Myllz 02-07-2013 02:10 PM

Some. Vanek and Pominville are the majority of that line's success, but Hogdson's chemistry with those is why they all work together well. Hodgson pretty much just lets Vanek and Pominville do their thing while crashing the net. Let Vanek do most of the work, cash in on opportunities. That's exactly what Vanek needs from a center, and it's what Hodgson provides.

For the inevitable "Vanek and Pominville would be doing this with anyone at center" comments, no they wouldn't. You put someone like Ennis between them and their points are going to decrease.

vcv 02-07-2013 02:12 PM

He deserves credit for finishing the chances Vanek creates for him and not getting in Vanek's way, unlike the belief that Roy did.

So he's not making Vanek look better, but playing in a way that lets Vanek shine.

Stop Winnin 02-07-2013 02:13 PM

50%, I think Vanek has benfitted from having him but he would've produced regardless of his center. He's dominating right now.

stokes84 02-07-2013 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myllz (Post 59228907)
Some. Vanek and Pominville are the majority of that line's success, but Hogdson's chemistry with those is why they all work together well. Hodgson pretty much just lets Vanek and Pominville do their thing while crashing the net. Let Vanek do most of the work, cash in on opportunities. That's exactly what Vanek needs from a center, and it's what Hodgson provides.

For the inevitable "Vanek and Pominville would be doing this with anyone at center" comments, no they wouldn't. You put someone like Ennis between them and their points are going to decrease.

The points are going to decrease regardless. This type of production can't last and we've all seen Vanek go on huge scoring runs before. What happens when Vanek hits his inevitable slump?

Sabretip 02-07-2013 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stokes84 (Post 59228715)
Title says it all.

While Vanek does seem more comfortable with Hodgson (and he's said as much), I think Hodgson's success is more due to Vanek than vice versa.

Old Navy Goat 02-07-2013 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabretip (Post 59229863)
While Vanek does seem more comfortable with Hodgson (and he's said as much), I think Hodgson's success is more due to Vanek than vice versa.

I agree with this, however I think Vanek's success is tied to having the offense go through him vice being a secondary wheel. He needs the puck on his stick to thrive and make plays, and Hodgson lets him do that.

flyingpig 02-07-2013 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stokes84 (Post 59229599)
The points are going to decrease regardless. This type of production can't last and we've all seen Vanek go on huge scoring runs before. What happens when Vanek hits his inevitable slump?

his numbers will probably go down as well.

Hodgson is contributing both goals and assists equally. He is a different center than Vanek has had previously. The good news is that we really haven't even seen him use his shot that is supposed to be very quick and accurate.

Look, as long as his defensive game grows and he improves on faceoffs, both coming with experience, I am perfectly happy with what he is doing, even if his numbers ebb and flow when Vanek's numbers do.

Jame 02-07-2013 02:38 PM

I love when arguments I made years ago are finally so obvious

BuiltTagonTough 02-07-2013 02:40 PM

One of things Vanek is also on the record about us how nice it is to have a righty center on his line.

Hodgson has been good for Vanek just as the other way around is true. Love that we finally have a top line.

1point21Gigawatts 02-07-2013 02:48 PM

Fence Straddler answer: Both have benefited.

In regards to the OP's question:

I think Vanek's success has come from a split between Hodgson's skill (there is plenty of it) and the mental hurdle Vanek has overcome. I might stand alone, but i think Vanek is a very cerebral player. When he is doing well, he isn't over-thinking his game and his confidence is high. When he is doing poorly, that guy gets so pissed at himself and he stays in that funk as a result. I think he is so comfortable with hodgson (as he has stated in interviews) that it allows him a certain amount of mental freedom to play his game.

For Hodgson: he is definitely thriving with the help of pominville and vanek. I think the real test that he is pulling his weight is to look at Pominville's and Vanek's numbers, and with their numbers elevated, it seems to be reciprocal.

pigpen65 02-07-2013 02:53 PM

Coho deserves as much credit as Luke Adam got destroying it on the first line last year.

Myllz 02-07-2013 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stokes84 (Post 59229599)
The points are going to decrease regardless. This type of production can't last and we've all seen Vanek go on huge scoring runs before. What happens when Vanek hits his inevitable slump?

They'll go down, but a run like this never even happens with a center like Ennis between him and Pominville.

stokes84 02-07-2013 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myllz (Post 59231281)
They'll go down, but a run like this never even happens with a center like Ennis between him and Pominville.

Based on what?

cardiffgiant 02-07-2013 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcv (Post 59229017)
He deserves credit for finishing the chances Vanek creates for him and not getting in Vanek's way, unlike the belief that Roy did.

So he's not making Vanek look better, but playing in a way that lets Vanek shine.


I agree with this. CoHo skates at a similar speed, feeds the LW more easily as a righty, is willing to (and does) drive to the net, and doesn't over handle the puck. Vanek is a great play maker and a great shooter. When he's been paired with speedy play making centers he just hasn't been as effective.

It's good chemistry that benefits the whole line and I think that both CoHo and Vanek would both be producing less if you swapped Ennis and CoHo.

thefifagod 02-07-2013 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stokes84 (Post 59232461)
Based on what?

Obviously we don't know for sure but it seems more unlikely considering Vanek thrives with the puck on his stick and so does Ennis. Ennis' fast-paced transition game also isn't ideal for Vanek.

Myllz 02-07-2013 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stokes84 (Post 59232461)
Based on what?

Based on Ennis taking away Vanek's time with the puck.

LGB24 02-07-2013 04:29 PM

Cody deserves a lot of credit just look at the boston game. The 2 on 1 he made a perfect sauce to Vanek to allow him to convert, and then the second 2 on 1 he was able to finish on Vanek's pass. He's got so much hockey IQ and it showed when he rushed right to the net for that goal against Florida

Chainshot 02-07-2013 04:49 PM

Offensively, that line is clicking. Hodgson's around the puck and in good position on the attack. He moves the puck well and gets to openings.

Defensively, he's the weakest link on that line with a number of mite-level gaffs where he's gone up the middle and it has burned the team. The offset between how much better his offense is vs. Adam and how somewhat better his defense is than Adam is a perk, that's for sure.

SoFFacet 02-07-2013 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stokes84 (Post 59232461)
Based on what?

I don't see how anyone watching the games this season wouldn't think that Ennis wouldn't waste a ton of Vanek's shifts through turnovers and lost puck battles.

ZZamboni 02-07-2013 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoFFacet (Post 59239681)
I don't see how anyone watching the games this season wouldn't think that Ennis wouldn't waste a ton of Vanek's shifts through turnovers and lost puck battles.

Those with anti CoHo agendas can't comprehend, recognize, or appreciate his efforts.

tsujimoto74 02-07-2013 05:31 PM

I think every player on that line benefits form each other. Vanek and Pommer have just been around each other forever and think the game exactly the same, so that helps. Cody might not think the game the same way (yet), but he does think it at a high level, which I'm 100% certain is why he's fit so well there offensively. If Hodgson can develop a more complete defensive game and learn how to win a draw, that line could be great in all 3 zones.

punkr0x 02-07-2013 05:31 PM

Cody is playing well but Vanek did have a pretty similar start last year on Luke Adam's wing. The guy is streaky and when he gets hot his linemates benefit. It will be interesting to see how CoHo plays when Vanek cools off.


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