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txpd 09-22-2003 05:14 PM

Cujo and the Waiver draft
 
I see many posts about Detroit needing to move Cujo before the waiver draft. Who is going to grab Cujo and that $8m salary? I think noone.

Son of Steinbrenner 09-22-2003 06:06 PM

there are a few teams that might jump in that may surprise you. two i think of are vancouver and the islanders. it would be an upgrade for vancouver over cloutier and hedberg. the canucks have enought talent win the west. there goaltending sucks. the islanders have a major question mark in goal with snow (and the new shoulder pad rules)

X8oD 09-22-2003 06:48 PM

while obviously i understand your point. part of me thinks we may be shocked, and somebody will take him.

just a gut feeling

Vatican Roulette 09-22-2003 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txpd
I see many posts about Detroit needing to move Cujo before the waiver draft. Who is going to grab Cujo and that $8m salary? I think noone.


well, detroit isn't likely to get a deal before the deadline. If someone takes him at the deadline, its the whole 8 million off the books that the team that selects him pays....detroit pays nothing.

Now, if every team passes on him, detroit will have to eat some salary to swing a deal.

FacelessButcher 09-22-2003 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pavel datsyuk
well, detroit isn't likely to get a deal before the deadline. If someone takes him at the deadline, its the whole 8 million off the books that the team that selects him pays....detroit pays nothing.

Now, if every team passes on him, detroit will have to eat some salary to swing a deal.

I don't think anyone would take him at that price unless it was close to the deadline and he was the lynch pin to making a cup contender, but if Detroit was to eat$2-3 mill I could see a lot of interest right now with a pretty decent return on the trade.

OlliMackBjugStud 09-22-2003 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jar jar links
it would be an upgrade for vancouver over cloutier and hedberg. the canucks have enought talent win the west. there goaltending sucks.

u have no idea what you are talking about. Cloutier is an excellent goalie, sure he isnt elite, but he isnt worth dumping to pay cujo 8m.

anymore cliche's ?

dr

Buffaloed 09-22-2003 07:57 PM

I wouldn't wait for the waiver draft. I'd waive Cujo now. There's a much better chance of him being picked now then when teams are set with their rosters.

Son of Steinbrenner 09-23-2003 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DementedReality
u have no idea what you are talking about. Cloutier is an excellent goalie, sure he isnt elite, but he isnt worth dumping to pay cujo 8m.

anymore cliche's ?

dr

cloutier is a loser! i dont mean as a person look at his record in the playoffs. no wonder vancouver is a no title town.

Motown Beatdown 09-23-2003 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffaloed
I wouldn't wait for the waiver draft. I'd waive Cujo now. There's a much better chance of him being picked now then when teams are set with their rosters.



I agree with you. But it seems to me Ken Holland still thinks he can trade Cujo. I think were gonna see him go thru the waiver draft. And when/if a team needs a goalie Detroit will make a deal. It hurts to carry three goalies on the roster. But it looks like a risk Holland is willing to make.

Marksman 09-23-2003 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffaloed
I wouldn't wait for the waiver draft. I'd waive Cujo now. There's a much better chance of him being picked now then when teams are set with their rosters.

I thought Joseph was on injury reserve list. He had an ankle surgery August 20th and was said to need approximately 6 weeks recovery time scheduled to start skating early October.

I'm no expert on waiver matters, but is it possible to move injured player? Besides who would want him without knowing if that ankle of his holds?

OlliMackBjugStud 09-23-2003 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jar jar links
cloutier is a loser! i dont mean as a person look at his record in the playoffs. no wonder vancouver is a no title town.

well, by that standard, 80% of all NHL goalies are losers too.

dr

Benji Frank 09-23-2003 06:01 AM

How is his ankle? Any chance it's real bad and a team might only have to pay him for the games till insurance kicks in and then possibly let him sit till the playoffs? A couple of mill this year ... then a playofff run and 8 mill next year for an elite goalie? It'd be worth it!!

Motown Beatdown 09-23-2003 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benji Frank
How is his ankle? Any chance it's real bad and a team might only have to pay him for the games till insurance kicks in and then possibly let him sit till the playoffs? A couple of mill this year ... then a playofff run and 8 mill next year for an elite goalie? It'd be worth it!!



He's suppose to start skating this week. So it looks like his ankle will be just fine.

messy_eh 09-23-2003 06:33 AM

Is it me or am I the only person who thinks Colorado wouldn't even hesitate to land Cujo. As far as I know there Salary is still less than it was last year. And the Only real question mark in Colorado is Goaltending. Picking up Cujo off Waivers accomplishes 2 things gives them a solid #1 goalie without having to give up an asset, and #2 Detroit also doesn't get any assets for Cujo. Sure Detroit might have to eat salary but they would probably get a decent player in return. Rumors are a 3 way deal with wash, Det, and Col. and this rumour has been hashed around on here to death, But Realisticlly Det would get Jagr or Lang if this deal went down. and Colorado would likely lose Tanguay, or Skoula and another player. Why wouldn't Colorado pick up Cujo for 1.5 mil more than Kolzig that way they would get to keep Tanguay, and Detroit wouldn't get JAgr or Lang. Not to mention the motivational factor that Cujo would have to beat Detroit in a playoff series. I am sure Cujo would allow Colorado to put a buyuout clause in his contract for the end of the year. I just can't see Colorado passing on Cujo.

Son of Steinbrenner 09-23-2003 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DementedReality
well, by that standard, 80% of all NHL goalies are losers too.

dr

cloutier has never been a stable goalie. its a shame that he hasnt lived up to his potential

discostu 09-23-2003 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canuck Highlander
Is it me or am I the only person who thinks Colorado wouldn't even hesitate to land Cujo. As far as I know there Salary is still less than it was last year. And the Only real question mark in Colorado is Goaltending. Picking up Cujo off Waivers accomplishes 2 things gives them a solid #1 goalie without having to give up an asset, and #2 Detroit also doesn't get any assets for Cujo. Sure Detroit might have to eat salary but they would probably get a decent player in return. Rumors are a 3 way deal with wash, Det, and Col. and this rumour has been hashed around on here to death, But Realisticlly Det would get Jagr or Lang if this deal went down. and Colorado would likely lose Tanguay, or Skoula and another player. Why wouldn't Colorado pick up Cujo for 1.5 mil more than Kolzig that way they would get to keep Tanguay, and Detroit wouldn't get JAgr or Lang. Not to mention the motivational factor that Cujo would have to beat Detroit in a playoff series. I am sure Cujo would allow Colorado to put a buyuout clause in his contract for the end of the year. I just can't see Colorado passing on Cujo.

I agree that Colorado would be willing to go after Cujo. I think Detroits biggest fear is that Cujo will end up there. If Joseph does hit the waiver wire, expect one of the lower teams to pick him up, and trade him to Colorado.

If Joseph is available by the time Colorado makes their pick in the waiver draft, would they have to unprotect Sauve or Aebischer to make the selection? Aebischer, I'm pretty certain needs to be protected, but I'm not certain on Sauve.

Frenzy1 09-23-2003 07:23 AM

8 million is a lot for a goalie. I think if Detroit is able to unload him it will be around midseason after the injury bug has hit teams. What they eat as far as the contract will depend on what is given in return.

IMO, I would expect mid-level pick (Check was worth a 2nd, but doesn't cost 8 mil) so maybe a 3rd or a 4th and a marginal prospect. Then again, if a contender's goalies are stinking up the place, his worth may increase.

IMO, the problem isn't the 8 mill this year, but the 8 mill next season after the CBA has expired. We all hear about a cap that may be put in place (hard, soft, or some lux. tax) so most teams have only a few players signed past next season. In the potential new economics of the NHL, spending 8 mill. in a goal-tender, MAY really eat into the cap space. (Assume a 40 mill cap, that is 20% and you must still field a competitive team).

I can see a team spending 8 mill per-season on it's star players (Sakic, Foresburg,...) but that would be on an 37 yr. tender...

Guest 09-23-2003 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by discostu
If Joseph is available by the time Colorado makes their pick in the waiver draft, would they have to unprotect Sauve or Aebischer to make the selection? Aebischer, I'm pretty certain needs to be protected, but I'm not certain on Sauve.

They have to protect Aebischer, but not Sauve, he's exempt. Even if they claimed Cujo, they wouldn't have to expose either goalie, just another player from their roster.

Bender 09-23-2003 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canuck Highlander
Is it me or am I the only person who thinks Colorado wouldn't even hesitate to land Cujo. As far as I know there Salary is still less than it was last year. And the Only real question mark in Colorado is Goaltending. Picking up Cujo off Waivers accomplishes 2 things gives them a solid #1 goalie without having to give up an asset, and #2 Detroit also doesn't get any assets for Cujo. Sure Detroit might have to eat salary but they would probably get a decent player in return. Rumors are a 3 way deal with wash, Det, and Col. and this rumour has been hashed around on here to death, But Realisticlly Det would get Jagr or Lang if this deal went down. and Colorado would likely lose Tanguay, or Skoula and another player. Why wouldn't Colorado pick up Cujo for 1.5 mil more than Kolzig that way they would get to keep Tanguay, and Detroit wouldn't get JAgr or Lang. Not to mention the motivational factor that Cujo would have to beat Detroit in a playoff series. I am sure Cujo would allow Colorado to put a buyuout clause in his contract for the end of the year. I just can't see Colorado passing on Cujo.

The problem is Cujo has $8 million this year AND $8 million next year left on his contract. That's a lot of money for any team heading into uncertainty with the CBA. I don't think there are many teams that want to 'help out' the detroit red wings by picking him up...especially the Avs.

Bender 09-23-2003 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by discostu
I agree that Colorado would be willing to go after Cujo. I think Detroits biggest fear is that Cujo will end up there. If Joseph does hit the waiver wire, expect one of the lower teams to pick him up, and trade him to Colorado.

The 'lower team' that picks him up better have a deal in place before they do or they could be stuck with a very expensive goalie.

Motown Beatdown 09-23-2003 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bender
The problem is Cujo has $8 million this year AND $8 million next year left on his contract. That's a lot of money for any team heading into uncertainty with the CBA. I don't think there are many teams that want to 'help out' the detroit red wings by picking him up...especially the Avs.



He also has an option for another year. If he wins the cup, he gets another year worth 8 million added on.

Hugh Nito I 09-23-2003 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bender
I don't think there are many teams that want to 'help out' the detroit red wings by picking him up...especially the Avs.

The Avs wouldn't do it for the sake of helping the Wings, but for one reason only: To win the Stanley Cup. If they are able to manage financially this year, I would guess they'll try to get him.

After this season, it might be a different scenario. Kariya might go after the big paycheck somewhere else and Forsberg might be heading home together with Naslund to finish their careers together in their hometown team.

As Discostu pointed out earlier, a realistic scenario is that a 'lower team' picks him up and then trades. Nashville always seems to be around when these things come up (with their history of acquiring pending UFAs through the expansion drafts and off-season trades). .

messy_eh 09-23-2003 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bender
The problem is Cujo has $8 million this year AND $8 million next year left on his contract. That's a lot of money for any team heading into uncertainty with the CBA. I don't think there are many teams that want to 'help out' the detroit red wings by picking him up...especially the Avs.


Cujo isn't an idiot, and the 8 mil next year is the hanging point he would probably redo his contract somehow to write his own ticket next year. especially to play for a contender. Colorado might help Detroit out by taking on his 8 mil but they would also be helping themselves out more. If detoit Trades Cujo it will probably be for a high priced player, ie maybe detroit eats some of Cujo's Contact 2 mil a year and aquires robert lang. Eric Lindros, Doug Weight, Martin Lapointe, John Leclair, or any of the other bantered Rumours out there, Detroit gets better. and Colorado still have to trade for a goalie. Detroit has 3 goalies that are as good or better than Colorados. there are probably a few other teams that might have interest in Cujo if Detroit ate enough salary the isles might be one. It will be interesting but i still feel the avs pluck him off Waivers. The question I have is do the Wings have to expose him right away as he is on IR or can they wait until he is healthy and cleared to play?

Frenzy1 09-23-2003 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canuck Highlander
Cujo isn't an idiot, and the 8 mil next year is the hanging point he would probably redo his contract somehow to write his own ticket next year. especially to play for a contender. Colorado might help Detroit out by taking on his 8 mil but they would also be helping themselves out more. If detoit Trades Cujo it will probably be for a high priced player, ie maybe detroit eats some of Cujo's Contact 2 mil a year and aquires robert lang. Eric Lindros, Doug Weight, Martin Lapointe, John Leclair, or any of the other bantered Rumours out there, Detroit gets better. and Colorado still have to trade for a goalie. Detroit has 3 goalies that are as good or better than Colorados. there are probably a few other teams that might have interest in Cujo if Detroit ate enough salary the isles might be one. It will be interesting but i still feel the avs pluck him off Waivers. The question I have is do the Wings have to expose him right away as he is on IR or can they wait until he is healthy and cleared to play?

The Blues had to protect Pronger last season so the Red Wings would have to protect Cujo or expose him to the draft.

I don't know if a player can renegoc. his contract because it is guaranteed. I have heard that players have defered money, but not completely redo a contract.

wazee 09-23-2003 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWI19
He also has an option for another year. If he wins the cup, he gets another year worth 8 million added on.

I had heard rumors of that. Let me make sure I totally understand.

Cujo is under contract for the 2003-2004 season AND the 2004-2005 season for 8 million each year, 16M total.

But should the team Cujo is traded to win the Cup, his contract would be extended through the 2006-2007 season at 8M a year.

Meaning that the team that would take Cujo is planning on paying him 24M...because the only reason a team would pay a goalie 8M is if they thought they had a very good shot at the Cup...

If it wasn't for that extra year, I think the Avs might pick him off waivers. They would love to have him this year, and who knows if there will even be a hockey season next year. But a cap will most certainly be in place for the 2006-2007 season....and paying Cujo 8M that year could really mess things up.


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