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-   -   Is Teemu Selanne a top 10 forward of all time? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1346227)

AngelDuck 02-10-2013 12:08 AM

Is Teemu Selanne a top 10 forward of all time?
 
Simple question. In my mind he is. Admittedly, I'm a little biased :)

Vsevolod Bobrov 02-10-2013 12:10 AM

lol. nope

StringerBell 02-10-2013 12:12 AM

He is not.

AngelDuck 02-10-2013 12:13 AM

Interested to see your guys' top ten forward lists

StringerBell 02-10-2013 12:15 AM

Interested to see yours ;)

Money Baer 02-10-2013 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelDuck (Post 59410775)
Interested to see your guys' top ten forward lists

Wayne Gretzky, 894
Gordie Howe, 801
Brett Hull, 741
Marcel Dionne, 731
Phil Esposito, 717
Mike Gartner, 708
Mark Messier, 694
Steve Yzerman, 692
Mario Lemieux, 690
Luc Robitaille, 668

He's definitely top 20 NHL forwards of all time... Maybe top 15... Either way, he's a first ballot HHF.

HockeyThoughts 02-10-2013 12:18 AM

Not even remotely close. I don't even think he makes my top 50 forwards, let alone top 10.

Fitzy 02-10-2013 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wally31 (Post 59410937)
Wayne Gretzky, 894
Gordie Howe, 801
Brett Hull, 741
Marcel Dionne, 731
Phil Esposito, 717
Mike Gartner, 708
Mark Messier, 694
Steve Yzerman, 692
Mario Lemieux, 690
Luc Robitaille, 668

He's definitely top 20 NHL forwards of all time... Maybe top 15... Either way, he's a first ballot HHF.


That, and I've got guys like Jagr, Sakic, Bossy, Richard, Bobby Hull... the list goes on a ways.

He is most certainly top 50. Probably top 25. But I won't venture much further than that.

skroonk2002* 02-10-2013 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelDuck (Post 59410775)
Interested to see your guys' top ten forward lists

Gretzky
Lemieux
Howe
Richard
Beliveau
Hull
Lafleur
Messier
Jagr
Mikita
Esposito
Bossy
Clarke
Trottier
Sakic
Forsberg
Yzerman

You asked if he was "top 10". That is 17 right there, all had better careers than Selanne.

I could list more, but I am feeling lazy.

Selanne has 0 Hart Trophies, 0 Art Ross Trophies, 0 Conn Smythe Trophies, 0 Selke Trophies, etc. Only 1 Stanley Cup (as opposed to multiple Stanley Cups by many players who rank above him). Yes, he has great career statistics. But there have been others with FAR SUPERIOR resumes.

Asking if Selanne is one of the top 10 forwards ever is like asking the same question about Luc Robitaille or Brett Hull. Both Hall-of-Famers, but neither are top 10. Hull is closer than Selanne though. Robitaille and Selanne are about equal.

Vancouver Blazers 02-10-2013 12:28 AM

top 30 probably

nowhereman 02-10-2013 12:29 AM

He'd be hard-pressed to crack the top 20, let alone the top ten.

The top ten, as I see them:

Gretzky
Lemieux
Howe
Hull
Richard
Lafleur
Jagr
Messier
Beliveau
Yzerman

HM: Esposito, Sakic

skroonk2002* 02-10-2013 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts (Post 59410997)
Not even remotely close. I don't even think he makes my top 50 forwards, let alone top 10.

He is probably around 30-40. Right about where his fellow countryman, Kurri, would be.

Gritzky98 02-10-2013 12:52 AM

Nope, not even close.

Penosity 02-10-2013 12:58 AM

I put him about even with Robitaille.
Maybe top 10, definitely top 15.

Evincar 02-10-2013 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wally31 (Post 59410937)
Wayne Gretzky, 894
Gordie Howe, 801
Brett Hull, 741
Marcel Dionne, 731
Phil Esposito, 717
Mike Gartner, 708
Mark Messier, 694
Steve Yzerman, 692
Mario Lemieux, 690
Luc Robitaille, 668

He's definitely top 20 NHL forwards of all time... Maybe top 15... Either way, he's a first ballot HHF.

LMAO. All you did was copy and paste the all-time leaders in goals.

Hardyvan123 02-10-2013 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts (Post 59410997)
Not even remotely close. I don't even think he makes my top 50 forwards[/B], let alone top 10.

Top 10 probably not, but top 50 almost a lock unless you are using a really weird metric to judge players careers.

It would be really interesting to see the 50 forwards that you think should rank ahead of him.

He definitively is a top 10 RW of all time for me (probably top 5ish off the top of my head), which is a more fair way to judge him because it's really hard to compare Centers, wingers, Dmen and goalies.

skroonk2002* 02-10-2013 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 (Post 59413017)
Top 10 probably not, but top 50 almost a lock unless you are using a really weird metric to judge players careers.

It would be really interesting to see the 50 forwards that you think should rank ahead of him.

He definitively is a top 10 RW of all time for me (probably top 5ish off the top of my head), which is a more fair way to judge him because it's really hard to compare Centers, wingers, Dmen and goalies.

RW is a stacked position in NHL history.

Howe
Richard
Lafleur
Jagr
Bossy
Hull

All rank ahead of him.

So not top 5.

After that, it gets a little cluttered.

LatvianTwist 02-10-2013 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts (Post 59410997)
Not even remotely close. I don't even think he makes my top 50 forwards, let alone top 10.

Uhm...

Hardyvan123 02-10-2013 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skroonk2002 (Post 59411113)
Gretzky
Lemieux
Howe
Richard
Beliveau
Hull
Lafleur
Messier
Jagr
Mikita
Esposito
Bossy
Clarke
Trottier
Sakic
Forsberg
Yzerman

You asked if he was "top 10". That is 17 right there, all had better careers than Selanne.

I could list more, but I am feeling lazy.

Selanne has 0 Hart Trophies, 0 Art Ross Trophies, 0 Conn Smythe Trophies, 0 Selke Trophies, etc. Only 1 Stanley Cup (as opposed to multiple Stanley Cups by many players who rank above him). Yes, he has great career statistics. But there have been others with FAR SUPERIOR resumes.

Asking if Selanne is one of the top 10 forwards ever is like asking the same question about Luc Robitaille or Brett Hull. Both Hall-of-Famers, but neither are top 10. Hull is closer than Selanne though. Robitaille and Selanne are about equal.

well it's the old trophy and cup counting arguments out there once again.

All trophies measure exactly one season in time.

While I agree that he probably isn't a top 10 guy don't go lumping him in with Lucky Luc and Hull.

His entire career and body of work, NHL, playoffs, international play top 10 in scoring lists per season far outweigh what either Hull or Luc accomplished.

kihei 02-10-2013 01:19 AM

I could see Teemu landing just in or just outside the top twenty. Something like:

Gretzky
Lemieux
Howe
Richard
Hull
Beliveau
Messier
Lafleur
Esposito
Jagr
Bossy
Trottier
Forsberg
Sakic
Yzerman
Mikita
Kurri
Clarke
Dionne/Selanne

skroonk2002* 02-10-2013 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penosity (Post 59412607)
I put him about even with Robitaille.
Maybe top 10, definitely top 15.

First statement is 100% correct. Second statement, not.

Ranking him top 15 is probably 15-25 spots too high.

Remember, this is a player with a relatively empty individual trophy-case (he led the league in goals two times; no other individual awards or accomplishments). And only 1 Stanley Cup (as opposed to multiple Stanley Cups by other players).

Would anyone here rank Robitaille as a top 10 or top 15 forward of all-time?

Honestly, Ron Francis has a better overall resume (a Selke, 2 Stanley Cups, and much more total points). And not even him would I rate top 10-15 in history.

Wrath 02-10-2013 01:21 AM

Top 50 for sure. I think the general feeling around the HoH board here is that he's slightly better than Kurri all time, who floats around top 70 for all players on their list (including goalies and defensemen). Maybe top 25, but not even close to top 10.


Also how did Robitaille come into this? I'd take him over Robitaille any day.

skroonk2002* 02-10-2013 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 (Post 59413157)
well it's the old trophy and cup counting arguments out there once again.

All trophies measure exactly one season in time.

While I agree that he probably isn't a top 10 guy don't go lumping him in with Lucky Luc and Hull.

His entire career and body of work, NHL, playoffs, international play top 10 in scoring lists per season far outweigh what either Hull or Luc accomplished.

Hull, at his peak, was a more lethal scorer than Selanne. He also accumulated better career numbers and more Stanley Cups.

Plus, a Hart Trophy. During a season when Gretzky was only 30, Lemieux was 25, and Messier was 30. Hull scored 86 goals that season, and went 50-in-50.

Evincar 02-10-2013 01:40 AM

1. Gretzky
2. Howe
3. Lemieux
4. Bobby Hull
5. Beliveau
6. Morenz
7. Richard
8. Mikita
9. Jagr
10. Lafleur
11. Esposito
12. Clarke
13. Messier
14. Trottier
15. Sakic
16. Yzerman
17. Bossy
18. Apps
19. Cook
20. Dionne

Not top 20 imo.

Hammer Time 02-10-2013 01:42 AM

Espo
Clarke
Lafleur
Gretzky
Lemieux
Trottier
Bossy
Messier
Sakic
Yzerman

That's 10 already, and I've only listed Canadians from the last 40 years. Throw in the Original 6 and European stars and there's probably 20+ forwards better than Selanne.


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