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-   -   Brian Boyle (The "He just plain sucks" Edition) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1346363)

SixGoalieSystem 02-10-2013 05:40 AM

Brian Boyle (The "He just plain sucks" Edition)
 
Since every GDT seems to end up in arguments on wether BB is a third liner, a fourth liner or just a scrub that should be traded for a bag of pucks and Vancouvers 7th, I figure he might as well have his own thread.

As far as I'm concerned I like Boyler. He's a go to faceoff guy, excellent on the PK, plays with a lot of heart and doesn't get enough credit for his physical play. He shouldn't be playing when we're behind and chasing goals like he did a lot last year, but as a role player on the third or fourth line, I love having him around.

Cresto 02-10-2013 06:02 AM

why don't we just make a god damn poll.

SixGoalieSystem 02-10-2013 06:07 AM

Because polls are pretty much worthless and actual discussion can be meaningful.

Bleed Ranger Blue 02-10-2013 06:42 AM

Im convinced the Boyle hate is rooted in this romantic and unattainable vision of the Rangers rolling 4 legitimate scoring lines. Boyle obviously isnt part of the plans with that pipedream.

In reality, blunting the oppositions offensive momentum can be just as important and thats why Boyle is an important asset.

2 minutes left in a game, nursing a 1 goal lead. Do you want a 19 year old out there, or Brian Boyle??

Vitto79 02-10-2013 07:22 AM

Boyle scored a ton of goals then was back to not last yr, he clearly is not an offensive player but he is good defensively . He drives people nuts cause he's big and doesn't usu it really. He sticks this yr but is dealt in the offseason IMO

we want cup 02-10-2013 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue (Post 59416719)
Im convinced the Boyle hate is rooted in this romantic and unattainable vision of the Rangers rolling 4 legitimate scoring lines. Boyle obviously isnt part of the plans with that pipedream.

In reality, blunting the oppositions offensive momentum can be just as important and thats why Boyle is an important asset.

2 minutes left in a game, nursing a 1 goal lead. Do you want a 19 year old out there, or Brian Boyle??

Even the damn Red Wings had Kris Draper, who scored 24 goals one year, but apart from that, was usually somewhere between 5 and 15, which is where Boyle is generally going to end up.

Crease 02-10-2013 08:07 AM

Looking forward to seeing how he responds to the benching.

Kreider Typical 02-10-2013 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue (Post 59416719)
Im convinced the Boyle hate is rooted in this romantic and unattainable vision of the Rangers rolling 4 legitimate scoring lines. Boyle obviously isnt part of the plans with that pipedream.

In reality, blunting the oppositions offensive momentum can be just as important and thats why Boyle is an important asset.

2 minutes left in a game, nursing a 1 goal lead. Do you want a 19 year old out there, or Brian Boyle??

who's romanticizing ;).

down 1 goal with 2 minutes left in a game, do you want jt miller on the ice, or brian boyle?

we have halpern(specifically) and stepan who have both been more reliable defensively than boyle. boyle's turning over pucks left and right, we can't have that from our shutdown center.

boyle has his upsides, and so does miller. miller looks better right now, but we'll see how his consistency is. right now boyle lost his spot in the lineup, and somebody else needs to screw up for boyle to keep his job. tbh i'd be happy with halpern being our go-to guy for face-offs and pk.

i don't see miller as boyle's replacement-- i think halpern already took his job. give halpern a few more screw-ups and we'll see how boyle comes in after the benching.


also... what about boyle as 6th d? :X

Bardof425* 02-10-2013 09:01 AM

4th liner. Big body, good effort. Minor league skills. Overpaid, overplayed, Sell high!

Muh 02-10-2013 09:16 AM

Put me in the camp of being a Boyle fan.

He does a lot of good for this team and doesn't deserve most of the hate he gets. I understand we always like to find a whipping boy, but I don't think he always deserves it.

He is a big body centermen who plays great in his own zone. I have no problem with the benching, hope it sparks him to play with more of an edge.

Think that one year was "a fluke", we shouldn't be expecting him to pot 19-20 goals.

Tawnos 02-10-2013 09:50 AM

I'd like Boyle to be playing a Craig MacTavish type role most of the time. Every once in a while, he'll have a great game in the offensive zone like we saw against Toronto (yes he ended up scoring a goal, but I'm talking more about having the kinds of shifts that led to the puck deflecting off him rather than actually scoring). Those shifts have been too rare for nearly all of this young season and much of last season.

Most concerning, though, is the lack of shots this year. In his banner season, he had 4 games out of 82 without a shot. Even last season, he only had 7. This year, he's already had 4. It's an indication that his offensive zone play has fallen off. And although this is a team stat, this year he's been on the ice for 4 goals against on the PK. In all of last season, he was on the ice for 10.

All of that said, in the proper role, I like Boyle on this team. He is a good PKer. He is a good faceoff man, the best on the team unless Miller keeps it up. He's a great presence on the bench and in the locker room. I really hope the benching gets his head back into the right place. He's a smart guy. I think it will.

What's hilarious is that a lot of people think I'm a Boyle-hater or basher. But last year, the thread about Boyle was to trade him and I was one of the most vociferous against it.

Stugots 02-10-2013 09:56 AM

He's a good 4th line center. Good defensively, good on the PK, but average to below average offensive skills. When he is in that role he surely does not "suck."

Kreider Typical 02-10-2013 09:57 AM

the hate for boyle stems from tortorella playing him in every godforsaken role imaginable. he's not an elite playmaker or a goalscorer. he's a shutdown and checking center. when we're down 2 goals w/ 10m in the third he should never step foot on the ice, let alone get double-shifted. the hate can be more directed at torts. at best boyle is a 3rd line center. on half the teams in the league he's not even that

slipknottin 02-10-2013 10:14 AM

Boyle actually has been a fairly productive offensive player.

He's averaged 180 shots a season (about 2 shots a game) and a 8.5% shooting.

That's good for about 20 goals a season.

This season his shots on goal is half of what it was in his previous two years. That's a big part of the reason he's scratched right now.

JCrusher* 02-10-2013 10:55 AM

So sick hearing about boyle. I mean its not like he is a big part of our team. Look I have no problem if he comes back but he has to produce otherwise we have to move on because in a shortened season we need to go with what works. So far infusing younger talent has made a difference

Riverdale 02-10-2013 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooskating (Post 59420291)
the hate for boyle stems from tortorella playing him in every godforsaken role imaginable. he's not an elite playmaker or a goalscorer. he's a shutdown and checking center. when we're down 2 goals w/ 10m in the third he should never step foot on the ice, let alone get double-shifted. the hate can be more directed at torts. at best boyle is a 3rd line center. on half the teams in the league he's not even that

Yup, pretty much.

Panfork 02-10-2013 10:59 AM

When did a $1.7M cap hit for a detabely solid 3rd liner/very good 4th liner that puts in solid effort, is a good team player, an important penalty killer, who can occasionally score, become overpaid? He's in the prime of his career.

You guys do know the cap hit isn't what it was in 2006 anymore, right? Chris Kelly has been making >$2M for the last 4 years, and is making $3M for the next 4. Look at his offensive numbers. Not much different than Boyle's have been in the last 2 years.

Trxjw 02-10-2013 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooskating (Post 59420291)
the hate for boyle stems from tortorella playing him in every godforsaken role imaginable. he's not an elite playmaker or a goalscorer. he's a shutdown and checking center. when we're down 2 goals w/ 10m in the third he should never step foot on the ice, let alone get double-shifted. the hate can be more directed at torts. at best boyle is a 3rd line center. on half the teams in the league he's not even that

So people hate him because the coach likes him? Makes sense. By your logic we should be rolling two lines late in the third period sound we can't ice the third line center.

Jabroni 02-10-2013 11:16 AM

Boyle's a solid player. One of our best shot blockers and PKers. Very good 4th line C / average 3rd line C.

Jabroni 02-10-2013 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panfork (Post 59422813)
When did a $1.7M cap hit for a detabely solid 3rd liner/very good 4th liner that puts in solid effort, is a good team player, an important penalty killer, who can occasionally score, become overpaid? He's in the prime of his career.

You guys do know the cap hit isn't what it was in 2006 anymore, right? Chris Kelly has been making >$2M for the last 4 years, and is making $3M for the next 4. Look at his offensive numbers. Not much different than Boyle's have been in the last 2 years.

To follow from this, Rupper was getting 1.5M per year. He's barely a 4th liner, can't shot block or PK like Boyle.

Kershaw 02-10-2013 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trxjw (Post 59423523)
So people hate him because the coach likes him? Makes sense. By your logic we should be rolling two lines late in the third period sound we can't ice the third line center.

Don't you know? Obviously we should roll Stepan and Richards in defensive zone draws because they're our defensive catalysts. :sarcasm:

silverfish 02-10-2013 11:34 AM

Something to consider, and I always feel the need to preface these types of comments by admitting I'm not Boyle's biggest fan... at all. But like a poster pointed out, if he was used correctly (mostly fourth line duty, PK, never on the ice late in the game when down a goal) most fans wouldn't have a problem with him. That 20 goal season was a fluke, seriously.

So yeah, something to consider might be the fact that Boyle on the market could probably fetch a reliable defenseman. If JT Miller continues to show he can compete at the NHL level, and with decent enough depth in CT like Palmieri, Ferriero, Newbury, Mashinter, and others; Boyle could be an 'on the block' option.

slipknottin 02-10-2013 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverfish (Post 59424293)
. That 20 goal season was a fluke, seriously.

It wasent though. It was only slightly better than his normal production. Problem is talking about regression to the mean only being a handful of goals.

But assuming he keeps getting over 150 shots on net, he is roughly a 10-15 goal scorer. If he gets his shots back up to 200+ then he's a 20 goal scorer a season.

Nothing fluky about it.

Miller Time NYR 02-10-2013 11:47 AM

Boyles a good 4th line center, the thing that drives me nuts is his inability to use his size and below average offensive talent. I think torts has realized this more this year and stopped playing him when were behind needing a goal like he did of last year primarily because he played hard, which doesn't always lead to scoring.

LittleKev6D9 02-10-2013 11:53 AM

I like Brian Boyle. As a 4th liner, he's as effective as they get. Solid PKer, decent on faceoffs, isn't afraid to hit and and is a good shot blocker.

I do have a problem with him getting close to 20 minutes a night. I expect him to get dealt at the trade deadline, but if he should get playing time in the playoffs over Asham.


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