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-   -   Proposal: Penguins - Bolts (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1347137)

sparxx87 02-10-2013 10:41 PM

Penguins - Bolts
 
Brett Connolly for Derek Pouliot


Pittsburgh needs a winger, Connolly could be a long term option for Crosby.

I'm not all that familiar with the Bolts organization, but I don't see any high end defense prospects in the system, would they value one Pouliot?

Could this be the basis for a deal? Expand if necessary.

Vujtek 02-10-2013 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparxx87 (Post 59471267)
I'm not all that familiar with the Bolts organization, but I don't see any high end defense prospects in the system, would they value one Pouliot?

They did draft Slater Koekkoek a few spots after Pens took Pouliot. So they do have atleast one higher end D-prospect.

I'd say the value should be close enough but I think Tampa would prefer to keep Connolly. Yzerman's first pick as a GM and developing nicely this year in AHL.

SEALBound 02-10-2013 11:33 PM

Kennedy+Jeffrey+3rd

for

Malone+Purcell

BigBenSF* 02-10-2013 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEALBound (Post 59473467)
Kennedy+Jeffrey+3rd

for

Malone+Purcell

Tampa won't do that.

As for the OP, Pouliot's success in the WHL combined with how high the Pens are on him will make it hard for him to go. Can't see him being traded straight up for a forward.

sparxx87 02-10-2013 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBenSF (Post 59473647)
Tampa won't do that.

As for the OP, Pouliot's success in the WHL combined with how high the Pens are on him will make it hard for him to go. Can't see him being traded straight up for a forward.

Fair enough, I just think Brett Connolly might be one of the few prospects you consider moving Pouliot for.

Connolly was regarded by some as a potential 1st overall pick in the 2010 draft, but a hip injury limited him to 16 games that year or he likely would have gone higher then 6th. He was the first player to score 30 goals in the WHL as a 17 year old since Patrick Marleau. Elite offensive talent and plays with an edge. He could be the perfect fit for Crosby.

Do you think the deal could be expanded to get something done?

Hans Rutherford 02-11-2013 02:44 AM

I think it's a fair deal. But I think Shero is a lot higher on Pouliot than we may know, so I doubt he'll be traded anytime soon.

Maybe something like Dumoulin + for Connolly could work. Dumoulin is probably about as NHL ready as Connolly is, very solid defensively and has some offensive potential too.

Jacko95 02-11-2013 02:52 AM

I would say the value of Connolly and Pouliot is even.
But Tampa isn't in real need for a defense prospect as we have 3 NHL ready guys in Barberio, Gudas and Korobov as well as Koekkoek in the backhand. it's a good proposal but it won't happen

Vujtek 02-11-2013 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoGuins8711 (Post 59477251)
I think it's a fair deal. But I think Shero is a lot higher on Pouliot than we may know, so I doubt he'll be traded anytime soon.

Maybe something like Dumoulin + for Connolly could work. Dumoulin is probably about as NHL ready as Connolly is, very solid defensively and has some offensive potential too.

I like Dumoulin a lot but he isn't fetching us a recent top-10 pick that's developing nicely. Even if that + is a 1st round pick, it's still not enough to get Connolly from Tampa. To get Connolly we'd need to give up one of Pouliot, Morrow or Despres - Dumoulin wouldn't be good enough main piece to get Connolly. And even with those three, getting Connolly from Yzerman would be tough, even if the value would be there.

Hans Rutherford 02-11-2013 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vujtek (Post 59477381)
I like Dumoulin a lot but he isn't fetching us a recent top-10 pick that's developing nicely. Even if that + is a 1st round pick, it's still not enough to get Connolly from Tampa. To get Connolly we'd need to give up one of Pouliot, Morrow or Despres - Dumoulin wouldn't be good enough main piece to get Connolly. And even with those three, getting Connolly from Yzerman would be tough, even if the value would be there.

Maybe. But when there's a need teams are willing to pay a price. Tampa traded a good prospect in Carter Ashton for freakin' Keith Aulie last trade-deadline. Dumoulin is not much worse (if not better actually) than Despres, he's just lacking NHL experience right now. I think he'd fit like a glove and could help Tampa right off the bat.

I'd understand if they wouldn't want to do it, but I think it could be a win-win for both teams.

Honour Over Glory 02-11-2013 05:02 AM

The only person I would want from Tampa Bay right now is Ryan Malone, mostly because he has chemistry with Malkin and he would fit in with this team quicker than any other person, there's familiarity there.

Not sure what it would take, but I would definitely be ok with losing a combination of Jeffrey, Tangradi, Kennedy, and 2nd round pick in 2013.

Or..

Kennedy + Tangradi + 2nd for Ryan Malone.

Honour Over Glory 02-11-2013 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoGuins8711 (Post 59477727)
Maybe. But when there's a need teams are willing to pay a price. Tampa traded a good prospect in Carter Ashton for freakin' Keith Aulie last trade-deadline. Dumoulin is not much worse (if not better actually) than Despres, he's just lacking NHL experience right now. I think he'd fit like a glove and could help Tampa right off the bat.

I'd understand if they wouldn't want to do it, but I think it could be a win-win for both teams.

Niskanen would probably be of more value to them, he's 25, finally back on track and signed to a decent contract. That and he helps them now, he's not some kid with 0 experience and what makes you think he's better than Despres? The moment he shows that at the NHL level, I'll believe it. Until then, it's a matter of what one Pens fan in our fan base, likes over another.

For cap purposes - Niskanen + Kennedy for Malone + late pick.

Then again, looking at the last few games without Letang AND Niskanen, I think we're all understanding his value right now.

#66 02-11-2013 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparxx87 (Post 59471267)
Brett Connolly for Derek Pouliot


Pittsburgh needs a winger, Connolly could be a long term option for Crosby.

I'm not all that familiar with the Bolts organization, but I don't see any high end defense prospects in the system, would they value one Pouliot?

Could this be the basis for a deal? Expand if necessary.

Gonna have to say no. DePo is the only natural PPQB in the entire organization.

If he was traded I would hope the Pens would go after a player like Rattie. He's going to have a hard time fitting in on a stacked St. Louis squad.

Zbynek 02-11-2013 05:18 AM

Seems really counterproductive from the Penguins perspective. We are in the win now mode and if we plan to move our top prospects it should be in a package to acquire NHL-proven wingers.

Still All In 02-11-2013 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory (Post 59478171)
The only person I would want from Tampa Bay right now is Ryan Malone, mostly because he has chemistry with Malkin and he would fit in with this team quicker than any other person, there's familiarity there.

Not sure what it would take, but I would definitely be ok with losing a combination of Jeffrey, Tangradi, Kennedy, and 2nd round pick in 2013.

Or..

Kennedy + Tangradi + 2nd for Ryan Malone.

I'd consider that last one. I'm not that high on Tangradi, but moving Malone around for a kid and maybe changing the identity of this team a little bit wouldn't be a bad thing.

DKQ 02-11-2013 08:34 AM

What's this? Pittsburgh is going to move another puck-moving D for a winger?

SteelFish87* 02-11-2013 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #66 (Post 59478219)
Gonna have to say no. DePo is the only natural PPQB in the entire organization.

Joe Morrow says hello

i would do the trade from a pens perspective

sparxx87 02-11-2013 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #66 (Post 59478219)
Gonna have to say no. DePo is the only natural PPQB in the entire organization.

If he was traded I would hope the Pens would go after a player like Rattie. He's going to have a hard time fitting in on a stacked St. Louis squad.

Except Letang? Joe Morrow's skillset is that of one who could likely run a PP as well. If you don't have a guy like Letang then you have reason to be worried, but why worry about giving up a kid who could potentially be as good as the guy you already have? Scoring winger is a significantly bigger need then mobile offensive defenseman.

Connolly has much, much higher upside then Rattie and he's much closer to NHL ready. Rattie is a pure goal scorer where as Connolly has a much more complete tool box. Connolly can distribute, score, hit, skate, grind.. Not to mention Rattie's skating could be an issue, it was accentuated on the big ice in the WJC this year. A guy his size has to move better to be successful in the NHL, got a lot more work to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zbynek (Post 59478247)
Seems really counterproductive from the Penguins perspective. We are in the win now mode and if we plan to move our top prospects it should be in a package to acquire NHL-proven wingers.

He played in the NHL as a 19 year old. From my understanding he lost his job to Cory Conacher but he could be a perfect fit in for a team like Pittsburgh with less depth on the wings.

NHL proven wingers will come with significantly higher price tags. He's already a better player then Tangradi or Boychuk and is 3 years younger.

All trades involve risk, but this one has the potential to pay off huge. Connolly will help the team more, and much sooner then a Pouliot would. He possesses elite offensive ability and could be a long term option, much like a James Neal where you acquire a player before he breaks out.

Like all young players, he needs to work on his defensive game and play without the puck, but he'll be far and away the most talented winger on the Penguins. Not necessarily the best, but the most offensively gifted and only going to get better.

Upside - Imagine Neal but a better passer/playmaker and much better skater. He is actually a natural centreman but projects as a winger in the NHL.

Follower of Yzlam 02-11-2013 09:52 AM

I actually think something could be worked out between these two clubs. They're natural trading partners with strengths and needs that are similar. Value of that is probably close-ish, but at the same time I don't love it.

The YzerJesus 02-11-2013 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory (Post 59478185)
Niskanen would probably be of more value to them, he's 25, finally back on track and signed to a decent contract. That and he helps them now, he's not some kid with 0 experience and what makes you think he's better than Despres? The moment he shows that at the NHL level, I'll believe it. Until then, it's a matter of what one Pens fan in our fan base, likes over another.

For cap purposes - Niskanen + Kennedy for Malone + late pick.

Then again, looking at the last few games without Letang AND Niskanen, I think we're all understanding his value right now.

I would do this deal. I like what Kennedy brings, and Niskanen isn't that bad either. Malone injured himself playing pre-game soccer yesterday, and has been very much invisible this season so far. Not that that should deter you from making this deal :sarcasm:

If I were Yzerman, I'd take that deal. I'd give it a little more time, but I'd take it in the future if Malone is still not producing.

Jacko95 02-11-2013 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparxx87 (Post 59481831)
Except Letang? Joe Morrow's skillset is that of one who could likely run a PP as well. If you don't have a guy like Letang then you have reason to be worried, but why worry about giving up a kid who could potentially be as good as the guy you already have? Scoring winger is a significantly bigger need then mobile offensive defenseman.

Connolly has much, much higher upside then Rattie and he's much closer to NHL ready. Rattie is a pure goal scorer where as Connolly has a much more complete tool box. Connolly can distribute, score, hit, skate, grind.. Not to mention Rattie's skating could be an issue, it was accentuated on the big ice in the WJC this year. A guy his size has to move better to be successful in the NHL, got a lot more work to do.

He played in the NHL as a 19 year old. From my understanding he lost his job to Cory Conacher but he could be a perfect fit in for a team like Pittsburgh with less depth on the wings.

NHL proven wingers will come with significantly higher price tags. He's already a better player then Tangradi or Boychuk and is 3 years younger.

All trades involve risk, but this one has the potential to pay off huge. Connolly will help the team more, and much sooner then a Pouliot would. He possesses elite offensive ability and could be a long term option, much like a James Neal where you acquire a player before he breaks out.

Like all young players, he needs to work on his defensive game and play without the puck, but he'll be far and away the most talented winger on the Penguins. Not necessarily the best, but the most offensively gifted and only going to get better.

Upside - Imagine Neal but a better passer/playmaker and much better skater. He is actually a natural centreman but projects as a winger in the NHL.

You nailed it on Connolly, he is absolutly NHl ready now and is just hold back in the AHL to learn how to be the go-to-guy instead of playing third-line minutes, he could play with you right away and he will be a hell in a few years.So it would even help you in your win now mode

Captain Smurf 02-11-2013 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoGuins8711 (Post 59477251)
I think it's a fair deal. But I think Shero is a lot higher on Pouliot than we may know, so I doubt he'll be traded anytime soon.

Maybe something like Dumoulin + for Connolly could work. Dumoulin is probably about as NHL ready as Connolly is, very solid defensively and has some offensive potential too.

YOur not going to get Connolly with a quantity trade. It'll be an equalishly regarded prospect.

sparxx87 02-11-2013 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacko95 (Post 59484861)
You nailed it on Connolly, he is absolutly NHl ready now and is just hold back in the AHL to learn how to be the go-to-guy instead of playing third-line minutes, he could play with you right away and he will be a hell in a few years.So it would even help you in your win now mode

So is that a yes from this Tampa fan? :laugh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Smurf (Post 59484971)
YOur not going to get Connolly with a quantity trade. It'll be an equalishly regarded prospect.

For sure. If they're trading their best prospect it'll be for another player with big upside at another position. Dumoulin is a solid prospect, but not on the level of Brett Connolly.

Tampa won't wanna trade this guy. For Yzerman to accept, it'll take something Pittsburgh doesn't wanna trade. Pouliot is a player I think Yzerman would consider it for. Koekkoek is a very good prospect, but doesn't have the elite offensive potential that Pouliot does.

I know it'll be tough to let a player like that go, but Letang on the roster and Morrow in the pipe affords them the opportunity to make this deal and address a bigger need. Shero has accumulated a few really good defense prospects with the intent (IMO) to parlay them into forwards, much like he did with Alex Goligoski. In a year or two Connolly's price tag will likely be through the roof. Trading for him before he breaks out is a risk, but one worth taking considering the state of the franchise. Pouliot doesn't bring any guarantees either.

ThunderAlleyNomad 02-11-2013 10:53 AM

I'd take the Malone deal. Pens are one of the very few teams he would probably waive his NMC for. And I think he needs a change of scenery.

Jacko95 02-11-2013 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparxx87 (Post 59485997)
So is that a yes from this Tampa fan? :laugh:



For sure. If they're trading their best prospect it'll be for another player with big upside at another position. Dumoulin is a solid prospect, but not on the level of Brett Connolly.

Tampa won't wanna trade this guy. For Yzerman to accept, it'll take something Pittsburgh doesn't wanna trade. Pouliot is a player I think Yzerman would consider it for. Koekkoek is a very good prospect, but doesn't have the elite offensive potential that Pouliot does.

I know it'll be tough to let a player like that go, but Letang on the roster and Morrow in the pipe affords them the opportunity to make this deal and address a bigger need. Shero has accumulated a few really good defense prospects with the intent (IMO) to parlay them into forwards, much like he did with Alex Goligoski. In a year or two Connolly's price tag will likely be through the roof. Trading for him before he breaks out is a risk, but one worth taking considering the state of the franchise. Pouliot doesn't bring any guarantees either.

As I sad before the value is even, it's like always everbody has the fear his team loses the trade. I would be okay with it, but I don't want to see Connolly go.
That was the same with the Ashton-Aulie trade, not many were happy with the trade after Aulie wasn't even able to crack our AHL teams roster last playoffs and now we look like the lucky winners, because he plays well in the NHL and Ashton struggles in the AHL.

So it's just the fear to lose such a trade.

OCPenguin 02-11-2013 11:14 AM

On paper, the OP's idea is probably equal value. But, I'm not sure I like trading prospect for prospect in this instance. While our system is lacking on prospect wingers, I'd just as soon package a D prospect along with a first round pick to get a young guy that has had success in the NHL (example Evander Kane even though Winnipeg wouldn't do this - again, an example) instead of hoping Connolly materializes into a long term solution.

I will pass, even though its probably a fair deal.


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