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-   -   Where will the Sedins rank among all-time Swedish players? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1347157)

Art of Sedinery 02-11-2013 12:04 AM

Where will the Sedins rank among all-time Swedish players?
 
At the end of their careers?

For reference:

Nicklas Lidstrom
Mats Sundin
Peter Forsberg
Daniel Alfredsson
Markus Naslund
Tomas Sandstrom
Thomas Steen
Borje Salming
Kent Nilsson
Mats Naslund
Henrik Zetterberg
Henrik Lundqvist

http://www.nhl.com/ice/careerstats.h...dersAllSeasons

Art of Sedinery 02-11-2013 12:10 AM

I voted both top 5.

I put Lidstrom as a clear #1, then Forsberg as a clear #2, then I have a hard time not seeing the Sedins ahead of Sundin, Alfredsson and Naslund when it's all said and done. Sundin would be the hardest argument to make, but Henrik is 2 points from passing Naslund as the Canucks all-time leading scorer at just 32 years old (Naslund played 2 seasons in PIT, joined the Canucks at 23).

I see the Sedins playing well into their late 30's and surpassing not only the 1000 point mark, but passing both Alfie and Lidstrom in scoring.

monster_bertuzzi 02-11-2013 12:11 AM

Behind only Forsberg, Sundin, and Lidstrom IMO.

I Hate Chris Butler 02-11-2013 12:14 AM

Top 5, among other hockey fans. Some Swedes seem to not like the Sedins and have them in the top 10 or 20, but not 5.

LeX4cavalier 02-11-2013 12:16 AM

Both are top 10 right now, and they'll be top 5 when they retire.

Lidstrom
Forsberg
Sundin (arguable)
Sedin
Sedin

nwaZ 02-11-2013 12:17 AM

They're not that popular in Sweden. Never had any success (individually) with the national team for instance. Outside the obvious like Lidström, Forsberg and Sundin, I'm pretty sure Lundqvist and Zetterberg are a lot more popular.

Art of Sedinery 02-11-2013 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwaZ (Post 59472897)
They're not that popular in Sweden. Never had any success (individually) with the national team for instance. Outside the obvious like Lidström, Forsberg and Sundin, I'm pretty sure Lundqvist and Zetterberg are a lot more popular.

I'm not sure what that means. How do you have individual success while playing for your national team? You mean like winning tournament top player awards?

They did win Olympic Gold with team Sweden.

SHAR KS 02-11-2013 12:20 AM

Behind Lidstrom, Forsberg, Sundin, and Karlsson.

Wizeman* 02-11-2013 12:21 AM

I can tell you that it dawned on me years ago that the Sedins are twins.

They cant be rated against other players. Have identical twins ever played in the NHL before or since?

How good was one twin ever without the other? Not hall of fame good certainly. Not for any real length of time even. Henrik did good once. Most other times its not the same.

So they are in a special category, as its not fair to compare two Sedins to one Aflie or Sundin or one Salming.

nwaZ 02-11-2013 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art of Sedinery (Post 59473029)
I'm not sure what that means. How do you have individual success while playing for your national team? You mean like winning tournament top player awards?

They did win Olympic Gold with team Sweden.

Sure they did. But nobody will remember a single moment with them in the NT. All the other ones have been very prolific in the tournaments, Alfredsson too.

Depends on how high you rate the national team.

Kershaw 02-11-2013 12:22 AM

Lidstrom
Forsberg
Karlsson (because I think he'll be a perennial Norris Trophy winner)
Sundin
Lundqvist
Zetterberg
H.Sedin
D.Sedin

Art of Sedinery 02-11-2013 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizeman (Post 59473053)
I can tell you that it dawned on me years ago that the Sedins are twins.

They cant be rated against other players. Have identical twins ever played in the NHL before or since?

How good was one twin ever without the other? Not hall of fame good certainly. Not for any real length of time even. Henrik did good once. Most other times its not the same.

So they are in a special category, as its not fair to compare two Sedins to one Aflie or Sundin or one Salming.

You know they aren't conjoined twins, right?

It's not like being a twin sudden makes up for poor skating, passing, shooting, stickhandling, and hockey sense. They are both damn talented players, being a twin doesn't automatically make you a good hockey player.

How good was Kurri without Gretzky?

We aren't comparing 2 players to 1. They both happen to be very similar in talents, so it's safe to assume that if one of better or worse than a given player, the other will be as well. Feel free to analyze them separately if you wish.

Kresnik 02-11-2013 12:26 AM

Lidström
Forsberg
Sundin
Alfredsson
Lundqvist

Precis utanför top 5.

Art of Sedinery 02-11-2013 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwaZ (Post 59473085)
Sure they did. But nobody will remember a single moment with them in the NT. All the other ones have been very prolific in the tournaments, Alfredsson too.

Depends on how high you rate the national team.

Interesting. This shows the disparity between many European fans and many Canadian fans. A guy does something memorable for his national team and is held in high regard for it in Europe. You help your team win gold in Canada and you get blamed for almost losing it. :sarcasm:

vanwest 02-11-2013 12:38 AM

Top 5. Behind Lidstrom and Forsberg. I think that they'll play for a while yet and end up either 3 and 4 or 4 and 5.

Kresnik 02-11-2013 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanwest (Post 59473673)
Top 5. Behind Lidstrom and Forsberg. I think that they'll play for a while yet and end up either 3 and 4 or 4 and 5.


They will never get pass Mats Sundin, you kidding me. Mats Sundin has played like "the Sedins post lockout" his whole career, yes the Sedins has that one outliers that surpass Sundins best but as a whole they are not near him. 5th place is possible because i do think they can pass Alfredsson, but we will see, perhaps Zetterberg end up taking that 5th place.

Hardyvan123 02-11-2013 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art of Sedinery (Post 59473029)
I'm not sure what that means. How do you have individual success while playing for your national team? You mean like winning tournament top player awards?

They did win Olympic Gold with team Sweden.

What he means is that they have never been top line players for Sweden in international competition and their combined record individually has been quite weak.

Even in their time in the NHL, they were slow starters, had a nice decent short peak but were always better fantasy guys than real NHL guys and weren't hard to play against, gritty ect...

Definitely not top 10 at this point and unlikely that changes.

StringerBell 02-11-2013 01:05 AM

Top 10

Hardyvan123 02-11-2013 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art of Sedinery (Post 59473299)
Interesting. This shows the disparity between many European fans and many Canadian fans. A guy does something memorable for his national team and is held in high regard for it in Europe. You help your team win gold in Canada and you get blamed for almost losing it. :sarcasm:

Lou was not the reason Canada won the Gold in Vancouver.

Go look at the Sedins track record internationally, it's part of the equation. Other Swedes have been more consistent and better in their careers, at least 10 of them and probably more.

RandV 02-11-2013 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art of Sedinery (Post 59473029)
I'm not sure what that means. How do you have individual success while playing for your national team? You mean like winning tournament top player awards?

They did win Olympic Gold with team Sweden.

It's very understandable actually. It's not like Swedes will be watching them in the NHL regularly, so during the odd time when they suit up for Sweden and aren't impressive it will leave an impression.

I wouldn't really say it's necessarily all their fault though. Being late boomers in 2002 they were two young, 2006 was their first real NHL breakout as PPG players but they were still second fiddle to guys on the national team like Sundin, Alfredsson, Zetterberg, and Forsberg. They should have had a break out in 2010 but for some reason the coach decide to saddle them the entire tournament with KHL'er Mattias Weinhandl, I guess because he was their line mate 10 years ago as teenagers in the SEL, but was a complete anchor in the Olympic competition.

I suppose it shouldn't really matter to us Canuck fans but when you see your teams players playing in an international tournament while you still want the team to lose to Canada/US (depending on your NHL city) you at least want to see your players doing well. So with so many stars now retired 2014 should be the defining moment for the Sedins with team Sweden.

eklunds source 02-11-2013 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 (Post 59474517)
Even in their time in the NHL, they were slow starters, had a nice decent short peak but were always better fantasy guys than real NHL guys and weren't hard to play against, gritty ect...

Ask an NHL defenseman how hard they are to play against. The answer will be "extremely difficult".

Define "gritty" - is it being able to take a hit to make a play? Because the Sedins are better than that than most forwards.



How many forwards would miss zero shifts for a hit like that? Daniel played on the powerplay that resulted.

Why I Like the Sedins

Quote:

In about one second, the Sedins and Alex Burrows combine for a tic-tac-toe goal that features, in this order, a no-look bank pass into a blind backhand saucer chip pass into a mid-air one-timer. No one else in the NHL is scoring this goal. And it was hardly talked about.

Evincar 02-11-2013 01:18 AM

1. Lidstrom
2. Forsberg
3. Salming
4. Sundin
5. Alfredsson
6. Lundqvist
7. Zetterberg
8. Henrik Sedin
9. Daniel Sedin.

Voted Not Top 10. If Karlsson stays healthy he would surpass them and other young Swedish stars could as well.

Steve Bennett* 02-11-2013 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eklunds source (Post 59474823)
Ask an NHL defenseman how hard they are to play against. The answer will be "extremely difficult".

Define "gritty" - is it being able to take a hit to make a play? Because the Sedins are better than that than most forwards.



How many forwards would miss zero shifts for a hit like that? Daniel played on the powerplay that resulted.

Why I Like the Sedins

Not really possible to argue those facts. Man I love this team! :yo:

Slick Eller 02-11-2013 01:27 AM

Salming is still ahead of the Sedins.

Lidstrom, Forsberg, Salming and Sundin are clearly ahead in my book.

They are in the same league as Zetterberg, Loob, Naslund etc.

Never been a fan of their perimeter play... Good for putting up good numbers, not great overall players.

Hardyvan123 02-11-2013 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eklunds source (Post 59474823)
Ask an NHL defenseman how hard they are to play against. The answer will be "extremely difficult".

Define "gritty" - is it being able to take a hit to make a play? Because the Sedins are better than that than most forwards.



How many forwards would miss zero shifts for a hit like that? Daniel played on the powerplay that resulted.

Why I Like the Sedins

Well find me an actual poll of NHL players that actually states that the Sedins are hard to play against. If such a poll exists I haven't seen it yet.

Also on your 1st clip that was a bull**** play where Daniel puts himself in harms way by turning his back against Eager at the last possible second while standing still. Without the attention to head injuries that would never be a call in the past.

I'm not aware for all seasons but the Sedins had by far the most offensive zone starts of any "star" players in 12 and yet their production went down for a 2nd consecutive year.

That sort of statistic isn't going to help in their legacy.


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