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-   -   The utter nonsense of blaming anyone but Steve Tambellini. (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1347607)

PaperDesigner 02-11-2013 04:48 PM

The utter nonsense of blaming anyone but Steve Tambellini.
 
This roster is bad.

Look, as exciting as the talents of Eberle, Gagner, Nugent-Hopkins, Yakupov and Hall are, when only two of your top six forwards have at least three full seasons of experience, and only one is past the age of 25, you can expect young player problems--inconsistent defence, potential regression, and general growing pains. They will be a brilliant group eventually, but look how long it took Gagner to hit a season where he appears to have finally turned the corner--he's in his sixth NHL campaign!

The bigger problem, though, since the top six is producing at least some offence, is that they are getting some production from Justin Schultz and nowhere else. There is NO scoring depth.

The biggest problem however, is that they have only two veteran, proven, every day NHL defencemen. Smid and Nick Schultz. Whitney is not the same player he was, Potter is a career minor league player, Schultz is a rookie, Petry is very new into his NHL career and Fistric is a 6 or 7. Where is the number one defencemen? Where is the third experienced top four hand?

Frankly, the weaknesses in the bottom six, the lack of experience in the top six, and the sheer lack of reliable defencemen is now making itself apparent.

It has been much to my dismay that people have been blaming the coach. What, did you not get tired of this charade the past three times? Remember when the problem was MacTavish? And then Quinn? Then Renney? And now Krueger? What's that saying about the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results?

This is a poorly conceived roster. And there is only one person to blame. The person responsible for the roster that finished dead last the first and second time. The one that has made consistently bad bets in free agency. That man is Tambellini. And although he had more success prior to the arrival of Tambellini, Lowe likely needs to take some heat too.

These are the only reasonable targets, gentlemen. Wait to criticize Krueger until after he has an NHL roster to work with.

GreatKeith 02-11-2013 04:51 PM

I don't think most teams have a #1 defenseman. There's probably two in our division (Edler and Suter).

ExOilerFan 02-11-2013 04:53 PM

Schultz isn't a #1 defenseman?
But yes I agree, its time to stop blaming the coaches. They're just working with the players that they are dealt. Tambellini is the real culprit in all of this

Moose Coleman 02-11-2013 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaperDesigner (Post 59501203)
The bigger problem, though, since the top six is producing at least some offence, is that they are getting some production from Justin Schultz and nowhere else. There is NO scoring depth.

Nope. I doubt many teams get much more than a sliver of production out of their bottom six. The problem here is the guys who are supposed to be scoring, aren't. We are a one line team right now.

GreatKeith 02-11-2013 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugie Boy (Post 59501429)
Schultz isn't a #1 defenseman?
But yes I agree, its time to stop blaming the coaches. They're just working with the players that they are dealt. Tambellini is the real culprit in all of this

He's looking like one, but I don't think it's possible to be one in your first year.

SeriousBusiness 02-11-2013 04:54 PM

Shocking that the fact we have several vets who are greatly under performing get a free pass.

It's not all on Tambo. At the end of the day, the players need to do what they're paid to do, and a lot aren't right now.

PaperDesigner 02-11-2013 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatKeith (Post 59501329)
I don't think most teams have a #1 defenseman. There's probably two in our division (Edler and Suter).

There are 30 #1 defencemen in the NHL. I suppose you could say there are only about 15 high end ones. But I am not merely observing that if you ranked all the NHL's defencemen, not one of them would be an Edmonton Oiler. Smid might make it in the 40-50 range, and Petry might get there eventually, but for now? No.

That's a major, major hole.

GreatKeith 02-11-2013 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaperDesigner (Post 59501559)
There are 30 #1 defencemen in the NHL. I suppose you could say there are only about 15 high end ones. But I am not merely observing that if you ranked all the NHL's defencemen, not one of them would be an Edmonton Oiler. Smid might make it in the 40-50 range, and Petry might get there eventually, but for now? No.

That's a major, major hole.

http://cdn1-www.hockeysfuture.com/as...oma_101612.jpg

I'd take him above most defenseman in the league right now. I don't think he's a legit #1 yet but the more he plays the more he looks like the best defenseman in the NW.

PaperDesigner 02-11-2013 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeriousBusiness (Post 59501493)
Shocking that the fact we have several vets who are greatly under performing get a free pass.

It's not all on Tambo. At the end of the day, the players need to do what they're paid to do, and a lot aren't right now.

How many veterans are really here to get a free pass? Smid, Hemsky, Smyth and Schultz? I would say most of the rest are negligible players, or in Whitney's case, they should have seen it coming. Where are the rest of the key veteran players? Why old they rely on Smyth so much at this stage of his career?

Yes, there needs to be some accountability there, but there's no point fixing the minor problems until you deal with the major one.

PaperDesigner 02-11-2013 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatKeith (Post 59501655)
http://cdn1-www.hockeysfuture.com/as...oma_101612.jpg

I'd take him above most defenseman in the league right now. I don't think he's a legit #1 yet but the more he plays the more he looks like the best defenseman in the NW.

Right now? In his rookie season?

I don't buy it. The problem with evaluating a Justin Schultz is that the things he does well, scoring goals and running a powerplay, are very noticeable, while the problems, defensive miscues by a rookie in a difficult position, are more subtle. I think there's an excellent chance he evolves into a number one defencemen ove the next several years. But is he a player who can dominate even strength minutes now? I doubt it.

waffen 02-11-2013 05:02 PM

as has been stated many times before the season.. much depended on how Whitney came back from his injury.. that was the wildcard question that we all now have the answer to

there wasn't much choice for Tambo on that..

I can't muster any blame for a 25yr old 2nd rounder that is very serviceable but has some more to learn.

Asher 02-11-2013 05:03 PM

What exactly are we blaming Tambo for here? For doing nothing rather than be aggressive with free agency and trades? That was never part of the "plan" as I understood it.

GreatKeith 02-11-2013 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaperDesigner (Post 59501899)
Right now? In his rookie season?

I don't buy it. The problem with evaluating a Justin Schultz is that the things he does well, scoring goals and running a powerplay, are very noticeable, while the problems, defensive miscues by a rookie in a difficult position, are more subtle. I think there's an excellent chance he evolves into a number one defencemen ove the next several years. But is he a player who can dominate even strength minutes now? I doubt it.

Probably not, but he also makes up for his mistakes in brilliant fashion. That play against Dubinsky last night was just one example.

PaperDesigner 02-11-2013 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher (Post 59501917)
What exactly are we blaming Tambo for here? For doing nothing rather than be aggressive with free agency and trades? That was never part of the "plan" as I understood it.

In short, the plan is dumb. It involves letting young players have positions of responsibility before they prove they are ready with minimal veteran support.

Gord 02-11-2013 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeriousBusiness (Post 59501493)
Shocking that the fact we have several vets who are greatly under performing get a free pass.

It's not all on Tambo. At the end of the day, the players need to do what they're paid to do, and a lot aren't right now.

most of it should be on tambo. he's the mastermind that has put this team together.
If he brought in players that can't do the job, it's his fault.
if there are injuries or Tambo has too many crappy players being put on the ice, it's his job to do something about it. he does nothing.

but 3 shots in the last 30 minutues against the worst team in the league and lucking out a win? (and that quality of play has been the norm this year, just like the last 5 years)
why shouldn't Tambo get the blame? he built the house. don't throw the blame on the shoddy construction towards the people renting it.

GreatKeith 02-11-2013 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaperDesigner (Post 59502035)
In short, the plan is dumb. It involves letting young players have positions of responsibility before they prove they are ready with minimal veteran support.

The problem here is that veterans don't want to play here. :help: Heatley, Jagr, Nylander, the list goes on.

xlnc66 02-11-2013 05:08 PM

If the top 6 was producing like they should be, they should easily have a couple of more W's, so instead of the standings looking like 5-4-3, they would be something like 7-4-1 or 7-3-2.

waffen 02-11-2013 05:08 PM

I guess one of the things that we are blaming Tambo for is the unfortunate fact that Whitney is in ruins.

raab 02-11-2013 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaperDesigner (Post 59501203)
This roster is bad.

Look, as exciting as the talents of Eberle, Gagner, Nugent-Hopkins, Yakupov and Hall are, when only two of your top six forwards have at least three full seasons of experience, and only one is past the age of 25, you can expect young player problems--inconsistent defence, potential regression, and general growing pains. They will be a brilliant group eventually, but look how long it took Gagner to hit a season where he appears to have finally turned the corner--he's in his sixth NHL campaign!

The bigger problem, though, since the top six is producing at least some offence, is that they are getting some production from Justin Schultz and nowhere else. There is NO scoring depth.

The biggest problem however, is that they have only two veteran, proven, every day NHL defencemen. Smid and Nick Schultz. Whitney is not the same player he was, Potter is a career minor league player, Schultz is a rookie, Petry is very new into his NHL career and Fistric is a 6 or 7. Where is the number one defencemen? Where is the third experienced top four hand?

Frankly, the weaknesses in the bottom six, the lack of experience in the top six, and the sheer lack of reliable defencemen is now making itself apparent.

It has been much to my dismay that people have been blaming the coach. What, did you not get tired of this charade the past three times? Remember when the problem was MacTavish? And then Quinn? Then Renney? And now Krueger? What's that saying about the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results?

This is a poorly conceived roster. And there is only one person to blame. The person responsible for the roster that finished dead last the first and second time. The one that has made consistently bad bets in free agency. That man is Tambellini. And although he had more success prior to the arrival of Tambellini, Lowe likely needs to take some heat too.

These are the only reasonable targets, gentlemen. Wait to criticize Krueger until after he has an NHL roster to work with.

:handclap:

CornKicker 02-11-2013 05:08 PM

i know there are lots of things we all "think" tambo could do to help the team but do you really think there is a hug emarket for 5.5 mil horcoff or broken ryan whitney? the smyth deal was bad but no one is taking potter off your hands. you cant just get these top end players to play top 2 minutes on d without giving up something of value.

Asher 02-11-2013 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaperDesigner (Post 59502035)
In short, the plan is dumb. It involves letting young players have positions of responsibility before they prove they are ready with minimal veteran support.

And who came up with the plan? Tambo? Lowe? Katz? We don't know enough to say. Putting all the blame on Tambo may not be accurate.

Beerfish 02-11-2013 05:08 PM

At least we have a person defending one part of the org and putting blame on another part. That much I respect. Most people defend the coach, the gm, the team, everyone.

I thoguth Kruger was a dumb hire, that is on Tambo as well. Hopefully he will prove me wrong.

missinthejets 02-11-2013 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaperDesigner (Post 59501203)
This roster is bad.

Look, as exciting as the talents of Eberle, Gagner, Nugent-Hopkins, Yakupov and Hall are, when only two of your top six forwards have at least three full seasons of experience, and only one is past the age of 25, you can expect young player problems--inconsistent defence, potential regression, and general growing pains. They will be a brilliant group eventually, but look how long it took Gagner to hit a season where he appears to have finally turned the corner--he's in his sixth NHL campaign!

The bigger problem, though, since the top six is producing at least some offence, is that they are getting some production from Justin Schultz and nowhere else. There is NO scoring depth.

The biggest problem however, is that they have only two veteran, proven, every day NHL defencemen. Smid and Nick Schultz. Whitney is not the same player he was, Potter is a career minor league player, Schultz is a rookie, Petry is very new into his NHL career and Fistric is a 6 or 7. Where is the number one defencemen? Where is the third experienced top four hand?

Frankly, the weaknesses in the bottom six, the lack of experience in the top six, and the sheer lack of reliable defencemen is now making itself apparent.

It has been much to my dismay that people have been blaming the coach. What, did you not get tired of this charade the past three times? Remember when the problem was MacTavish? And then Quinn? Then Renney? And now Krueger? What's that saying about the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results?

This is a poorly conceived roster. And there is only one person to blame. The person responsible for the roster that finished dead last the first and second time. The one that has made consistently bad bets in free agency. That man is Tambellini. And although he had more success prior to the arrival of Tambellini, Lowe likely needs to take some heat too.

These are the only reasonable targets, gentlemen. Wait to criticize Krueger until after he has an NHL roster to work with.


and this is why they talked about it being a 5 year process... but some people didn't listen to them and expected different results? The veterans not being good enough was the reason this team hit the skids like it did. Sure they could make some moves to follow a different plan, but they clearly intend on following their original plan and putting up with the growing pains of the young players.

belair 02-11-2013 05:20 PM

While some of the points here are apparent, I honestly don't think you give coaching a free pass here.

One player you look at is Eric Belanger.

He's brought in here to provide a veteran presence, win face-offs, shutdown the scoring lines of other teams and pop in a few here or there. Previously his career stats show he was consistantly a 35-40 point player coming off a 13-27-40 season in Phoenix.

Since being placed in the line-up, he's provided that veteran presence, won faceoffs, blocked shots and scored a massive 4 goals in 87 games played.

Ryan Smyth scored 47 points playing with our top offensive players for the mostpart last season. He's at a 1-1-2 point total in 12 games, relegated to a checking role.

Horcoff was at the same 1-1-2 after 9 games prior to his injury, scoring his lone goal in highlight-reel fashion off of his foot.

There is a systemic flaw when these players consistantly don't score goals in the bottom six. You can call them snake-bitten, you can crucify them, but the problem still remains.

And that problem isn't Steve Tambellini's fault.

Beerfish 02-11-2013 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missinthejets (Post 59502231)
and this is why they talked about it being a 5 year process... but some people didn't listen to them and expected different results? The veterans not being good enough was the reason this team hit the skids like it did. Sure they could make some moves to follow a different plan, but they clearly intend on following their original plan and putting up with the growing pains of the young players.

Unfortunately for the 5 year process guys (Lowe said that not Tambo if I recall) very rarely is a team garbage for 5 years and then a contender in year 6. Generally you are garbage for a couple of years, perhaps come close to the playoffs, make the playoffs, perhaps are ready to do some damage.

The other part of peoples frustrations is looking at other teams with what looks like poor rosters year in and year out totally out perform the oilers. The offense stagnation is a surprise, I think coaching style is partly to blame for that. The big area of neglect was on defense where they promised big upgrades and only though the grace of god is schultz better than expected.

Can you imagine how bad we would be if he came in and need a full year or so to adjust?


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