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-   -   Post Game Talk: Coyotes @ Avs (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1348293)

The Kingslayer 02-11-2013 11:44 PM

Coyotes @ Avs
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dmitri (Post 59540059)
So.. he plays like a contract player.. who isn't a contract player.. thus defining him as a .. contract player? :laugh: Don't go to Thailand bro. With that logic I am unsure if you'll be spending a night with a man or a woman. :laugh:



I see him bolting to St Louis as well. I think we could maybe squeeze out a winger from them. Which would be nice given Duke's retirement, Jones drunk self and injuries that'll happen to the team.



I wouldn't say the rebuild failed. I'd say the management failed. The player we have, tho albeit some we overpaid for, are solid to build around. A core of:

Lando - Duch - XXX
XXX - Staz - XXX
XXX - ROR - XXX

EJ - XXX

Varly

Is not a bad start. Its just the supporting cast of dmen that suck. Offense just needs better coaching. But if management is unwilling to pay to keep certain players and more importantly, unwilling to make the office/bench chances to support those players it won't matter who we have on the ice if the person behind the bench is a moron.

Don't believe me? Look at the 2004 avs. Great iced team, BAD coach..



We sit at 52 million.. I think that is too high given the talent of this team.




Didn't you want stastny gone even when he was playing good? :laugh: I always remember you calling him casper when he wasn't scoring on the road in his early days and were open to trading him then.

I been wanting him gone since about the time Stewart and Shatty got traded. Im just glad to see some other son here are finally seeing it now

AslanRH 02-11-2013 11:45 PM

Lets trade stazz and our 1st to columbus for Murray and be done with it. :) Tired of arguing over centers that play solid or don't play at all.

RABBIT 02-11-2013 11:49 PM

You guys easily have one of the most dynamic teams in the NHL. You guys outplayed us all night tonight, too. I bet that ref is going to lose some sleep tonight. It's hard not to like the Avs, so much potential, great history, great fans. If the Coyotes ever leave Arizona, Colorado might just be my runner up.

Nihiliste 02-11-2013 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmitri (Post 59540059)
I wouldn't say the rebuild failed. I'd say the management failed. The player we have, tho albeit some we overpaid for, are solid to build around. A core of:

Lando - Duch - XXX
XXX - Staz - XXX
XXX - ROR - XXX

EJ - XXX

Varly

Is not a bad start. Its just the supporting cast of dmen that suck. Offense just needs better coaching. But if management is unwilling to pay to keep certain players and more importantly, unwilling to make the office/bench chances to support those players it won't matter who we have on the ice if the person behind the bench is a moron.

Don't believe me? Look at the 2004 avs. Great iced team, BAD coach..
.


That's exactly what I mean when I say the rebuild has failed. Now consider the fact that in a year and a half probably neither Stastny nor O'reilly will be on this team, what exactly will we have as the fruits of our labor these past 4 years.

Duchene
EJ
Landeskog
Varly
Whatever we get back for ROR

I doubt we'll get a core player back for Stastny the way he's playing.

That's really not much. We'll be a bad team for a long, long time at this rate. But to me a big part of the problem is our **** coaching, management not being willing to pay to retain guys, overpaying in trades for two of the core pieces we do have, and most of all failing to put our young guys in a position to succeed and develop.

chewey 02-11-2013 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nihiliste (Post 59540545)
But to me a big part of the problem is our **** coaching, management not being willing to pay to retain guys, overpaying in trades for two of the core pieces we do have, and most of all failing to put our young guys in a position to succeed and develop.

I don't disagree with you, I think I just would walk a different path. You wanna keep it all. I say blow it up. It won't make a difference either way cause the one constant thing that will keep us from succeeding won't change in all of that: MANAGEMENT. :nod: As long as we hire from within, its the same crap puked out over and over.

S E P H 02-11-2013 11:57 PM

Bordeleau is probably the most skilled enforcer we ever had.

Nihiliste 02-11-2013 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmitri (Post 59540721)
I don't disagree with you, I think I just would walk a different path. You wanna keep it all. I say blow it up. It won't make a difference either way cause the one constant thing that will keep us from succeeding won't change in all of that: MANAGEMENT. :nod: As long as we hire from within, its the same crap puked out over and over.

I guess blowing it up again just seems like acknowledging that this rebuild was a complete failure and a waste of four years under an unqualified coach and an unqualified general manager. Plus I find it hard to get excited about resetting our rebuild when it's going to be more of the same if they do - it'll just be Quinn/Chynoweth behind the bench and one of Lacroix's other bean counters in front office as the GM.

So I guess we see things the same way but I'd rather delusionally hope that they can somehow salvage this situation. Reality is they'll probably have to blow it up to an extent and we'll continue to be awful for the forseeable future.

Mant* 02-12-2013 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henchman24 (Post 59538845)
I have a bad, sinking feeling that Stastny is going to play awesome for his next team.

Of course he will... his next team will give him NHL quality linemates... something he hasn't had here for a few years.

Avs_19 02-12-2013 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mant (Post 59540991)
Of course he will... his next team will give him NHL quality linemates... something he hasn't had here for a few years.

Better coach and system to play in as well.

Av-merican 02-12-2013 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S E P H (Post 59540855)
Bordeleau is probably the most skilled enforcer we ever had.

No way man...Worrell could skate like the wind.

IceRat 02-12-2013 12:16 AM

"Got to go out there and just play the hand you're dealt," Avs coach Joe Sacco said. "We can't worry about who's here and who's not in the lineup."

.... or who our sh*ty coach is he added

madman 02-12-2013 12:24 AM

I am bummed about this game.

And so frustrated by the increasingly obvious mediocrity of this organization, top-down.

And even more frustrated by the realization that, in all likelihood, it's only going to get worse.

IceRat 02-12-2013 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madman (Post 59541769)
I am bummed about this game.

And so frustrated by the increasingly obvious mediocrity of this organization, top-down.

And even more frustrated by the realization that, in all likelihood, it's only going to get worse.

so long as it gets bad enough to get the current coach fired I'm good with that
once that is done if we can avoid some of the injury bug that has haunted us I think we'll be in good shape going forward

Bordeleau Of Blood 02-12-2013 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S E P H (Post 59540855)
Bordeleau is probably the most skilled enforcer we ever had.

Chris Simon says hello. :)

The Shermanator 02-12-2013 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceRat (Post 59541965)
so long as it gets bad enough to get the current coach fired I'm good with that
once that is done if we can avoid some of the injury bug that has haunted us I think we'll be in good shape going forward

I'd like to think that too but I feel like we've been saying this for a few years now.

IceRat 02-12-2013 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Shermanator (Post 59542351)
I'd like to think that too but I feel like we've been saying this for a few years now.

true but I don't see Sucko coming back after this season and we didn't have some of the key talent we have now a few years ago (Lando, EJ, Varly, probable high draft pick in upcoming draft)

now if you are talking about the injury bug/curse I don't know how we get around that other than a magic spell/potion or cleaning house on our training staff

Sgarbossy 02-12-2013 12:51 AM

Demoralizing loss. They played pretty well tonight and the atmosphere in the can was better than I expected until that last bit.

The positive is that although this team is divebombing towards next years draft and the injuries won't stop, when it is all back together and everyone is healthy and we finally get a new coach this team doesn't look too far off from a playoff darkhorse.

Av-merican 02-12-2013 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sgarbossy (Post 59542535)
Demoralizing loss. They played pretty well tonight and the atmosphere in the can was better than I expected until that last bit.

The positive is that although this team is divebombing towards next years draft and the injuries won't stop, when it is all back together and everyone is healthy and we finally get a new coach this team doesn't look too far off from a playoff darkhorse.

Be careful what you wish for...the injury pile-up will only help Sacco's chances of staying aboard.

dahrougem2 02-12-2013 12:57 AM

Jesus Palushaj has a hell of a shot, shouldn't be playing left wing though, I'm old fashioned right handed, right wing, left handed, left wing.

We might break the record for most injuries to a starting 23 man roster in one season

Tyson Barrie sucks, please send him down to the AHL, for a guy who's supposed to be a puck-moving offensive powerplay quarterback, he doesn't join the rush nearly enough, he doesn't know how to get shots through to the net and just overall angers me with his play

Shane O'Brien played his best game of the season

Paul Stastny was once again invisible

Please buy out David Jones in the summer, along with Greg Zanon

Please also trade Ryan O'Byrne

Over-reaction? Sure, but I'm sick of watching a losing team. I understand we are going through injuries and then the 3rd was just disgusting with how many injuries occurred, but I'm just sick and tired of this team

madman 02-12-2013 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Shermanator (Post 59542351)
I'd like to think that too but I feel like we've been saying this for a few years now.

Exactly. It's the same story, over and over again. And, aside from a few guys who've been here for 4+ years (hi Paul Stastny and David Jones), it's been with a revolving door of mostly young players who we get excited about only to see them get traded, injured, or simply not develop as we expect (note: I have no idea where the O'Reilly debacle fits in that equation :shakehead). Through in a few journeyman, bottom-pairing pylons and plugs on the back-end, and what you get is a consistently fun, inconsistent, mediocre team.

The developmental trajectory of this team is just so out of whack right now.

And oh yeah, our coach still sucks.

IceRat 02-12-2013 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madman (Post 59542913)
it's been with a revolving door of mostly young players who we get excited about only to see them get traded, injured, or simply not develop as we expect (note: I have no idea where the O'Reilly debacle fits in that equation :shakehead).

where are all these young players we are missing ... what we need Yip back?, Coen? (sure over Hunwick but what exactly is Coen doing ...not playing in the NHL), Wolski, Galiardi, ? (can't complain about the return we got for them at the time), Cumiskey? ...Shatner-Kirk and Stewart good talent for sure but we got EJ back and you have to give something good to get something good in return

as for development, development takes time and I would argue many of our players developed much faster than the average player given the ages they were thrown to the wolves

Vip 02-12-2013 01:22 AM

Sorry about the bad bounce boys.
Avs are my 2nd team after Phoenix leaves.

c0rn1 02-12-2013 02:59 AM

Well, to sum it up:

1st goal phoenix: Blatant Error by O'Byrne who plays the puck right to the PH player.
1st goal COL: Fine shot by Olver
2nd goal COL: Speed kills @ Duchene
2nd goal PH: Soft goalkeeping by Varlamov on that one :/
3rd goal PH (OT): Refs wanted to have a piece of the game as well ...

Anyways. We should've won 2:0 but lost 2:3 due to 3 personal breakdowns and that is something usually a coach adresses afaik? ;P

BrickAHL 02-12-2013 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse21 (Post 59544123)
we are not one of the most dynamic teams in the league, we are terrible and can barely ever score at all.

why would you ever want to become a new fan of this trash? the management is a joke and isnt going to improve. the roster is just going to keep treading water if not get worse due to all these injuries (Who knows how Duchene/Landeskog/Johnson will be after all these injuries).. i could go on and on about how awful the team is from top to bottom. be a fan of a real franchise instead man.

Don't listen to this guy, I don't think he has ever said anything positive. Things are looking bad right now but they will be a lot better in a few years.

Hennessy 02-12-2013 03:39 AM

I didn't watch the game, having gone to bed after the first period of the Islanders-Hurricanes match. And I am glad for that. By all accounts this would have been a tough one to see. Not only in losing as they did, but throwing away so many chances to win it. Normally one could console themselves with at least getting a point out of a losing effort, but in this case it almost adds insult to injury.


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