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-   -   Why do YOU think the Wild cannot score (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1349237)

DeuceMN 02-13-2013 11:16 AM

Why do YOU think the Wild cannot score
 
I would really like to know what people here think on this matter. It has become enough of an issue that it seemed only fitting to give it it's own thread.

I have seen snakebit players, but the whole damned team?!

8 of 13 games this year with only 1 goal.

I'm at a loss myself, except for I do believe it has to be indicative of the system some. Maybe not in its' ideal, but certainly in its' execution.

What are your thoughts?

DANOZ28 02-13-2013 11:31 AM

its almost like these pro players making millions of $$$$ cant handle the "great expectations" of minnesota fans hoping that this year we are a playoff team & possibly a contender. hey wild get the (blank) over it!

Gaps 02-13-2013 11:37 AM

I don't think there's one particular reason for it, but many. It's both about the players and the system, IMO. It is certainly about the execution of the system, but it could be partly about the system itself as well.


The players:

1) There are a lot of new players on the roster now and they're not accustomed to the system yet. While they're doing that, they have less time to focus on actual scoring. For example Granlund's offense has suffered from this, and I'm sure he's not the only one. He's getting there though, and so will the others. Suter's improved his game as well.

2) Failure feeds failure, meaning that the less they score, the less likely they're to score in the next game because they're squeezing their sticks and thinking "OMG, I really need to score now". The bad karma has spread all over the team now and there's nothing that can be done about it except not to panic, because that's going to make things even worse.

3) Not too many players played during the lockout. Not all of them took care of themselves as well as they should've. Not all of them were ready to start the season. When they didn't get things going right from the start, they went into a mental lockdown (the state known as "deepfrozen"). Seto got the monkey family off his back eventually and has now scored twice in a short period of time. He won't be the only one who's eventually going to get on their game.

About the system (I don't know enough about coaching to say much, but these are the questions I've been asking myself):

1) Is the current system the best possible one for this roster? It seemed to fit last season's team, but this is not the same team. The overall talent level is higher. Maybe these guys should be given more freedom? To a certain extent, the system should be adjusted according to the material and to a certain extent the players should adjust to a new system. You need to find the middle ground here.

2) Can't they really think of anything to improve the PP? The current formula's obviously not working, can't they think of anything a little more creative?

Sportserie 02-13-2013 11:44 AM

Great thread idea. I couldn't stand to read the Devils, Predators, and Red Wings fans taking shots in the thread on the main board. They still act like scorned ex significant others. Red Wings didn't even have Suter so it's extra hilarious that they are hurting. It amazes me. We never acted like this with Gaborik.

Anyway, I believe it's the system, Yeo a bit overwhelmed and not completely up to the task, PP a complete mess, and just needing time to gel and come together. There's several factors involved.

MuckOG 02-13-2013 11:45 AM

It's not for a lack of scoring opportunities...they ARE having chances...

I just think they have been a little snake bit lately....I might be a little overly optimistic, but I think the scoring will come eventually...just hope it's not too late.

nickschultzfan 02-13-2013 11:53 AM

Simple, no offensive identity or consistency. Too many players that don't fit together.

We aren't a high skilled team.
We don't have enough guys who can dangle, thread the needle, and snipe. Other teams can play simple defense and shut us down because we don't have to worry about giving up too much of a gap, lane to the net, or getting de-pants.

We aren't a fast team.
There is no counter-attack on this team. When we get the puck in the D-zone or neutral zone, there is no explosion the other way. Othe teams defenses can play us tight, can pinch, and bottle us up in our Dzone, because there is no worries of giving up a quick odd man rush the other way. We come into the offensive zone with 1 or 2 forwards, and that is it. Speed players have to wait for slower players, or they don't go north-south.

We aren't a cycle team.
There is always one guy on a line who will turnover the puck on the offensive zone cyle, and we don't win enough board battles. After 2-4 blind passes on the cycle, somebody coughs up the puck or forces a pass into the teeth of the defense that instantly gets gobbled up. We don't win races to loose pucks and we don't punish the other teams when we do win races.

We aren't a forechecking, Ozone turnover team.
We don't scare the opposing team's defenders. We don't punish them when they touch the puck. We aren't on their heels; we are three steps back. We aren't on them half a second after they get to the puck. We don't explode out of the corner and drive to the net if the defense lets us get to the puck first.

DANOZ28 02-13-2013 11:53 AM

if i was mgmt i would bring in a motivational speaker like gretzky, or force the players to watch gretzky highlights. #2 i would search for a ex red army coach who was a powerplay specialist and bring in some new ideas for our pathetic PP.

TwInS1095 02-13-2013 11:54 AM

Anything other than putting on the players is making up excuses. Your a professional hockey player get off your ***, move your feet, work hard, play your game and stop making excuses. It's on the guys. They are paid to win games. Time to start doing that

Engebretson 02-13-2013 11:57 AM

http://skepticalcubefarm.files.wordp...its-aliens.jpg

Had to do it

DeuceMN 02-13-2013 12:00 PM

I do agree that our team identity is too ambiguous. We need to define that and takes the necessary steps towards actually creating it.

I've heard many words of what we are, but the belief is not there.

DeuceMN 02-13-2013 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engebretson (Post 59638489)

Classic!:biglaugh:

nickschultzfan 02-13-2013 12:01 PM

My first fix would be to try to set-up lines that could at least do one of those 4 things really well.

Put Koivu on a line with two guys who can really cycle the puck (Bouchard, Brodziak, etc.).

Put Parise on a line with some skill or speed players (Setoguchi, Mitchell, Granlund (skill), Cullen (speed, ugh).

Put Clutterbuck with guys that can forecheck or scare the other team.

I would also bring up Zucker and Larsson, because they would help areas in which we are lacking.

Heatley also is worthless if he's not bringing his skill game.

DeuceMN 02-13-2013 12:18 PM

With the way Seto is playing these last 6 games or so, I would consider giving him a shot on the top line. I also like Koivu and Parise together, the line could use a little more speed though.

Parise-Koivu-Seto

I'm still not keen on Granlund at C, at least this year, but whatever:

Cullen/Butch-Granlund-Coyle

Mitchell-Brodziak-Clutter/Cullen

Clutter/Cullen-Konopka-Rupp

Brodin-Suter
Gilbert-Spurgeon
Falk-Stoner

Just please get rid of Prosser and sit Heatley.

Heatley hasn't done **** this year. Even when he has scored it's been on the PP with him just sitting in front of the net and everyone else doing all the work. We need players who are willing to work for it.

DeuceMN 02-13-2013 12:21 PM

This team needs to start passing less, and shooting more. They pass up many opportunities going for that extra pass.

Vancouver used to do this, then they were trained to stop, and now look at them.

Our passing also needs to be faster, especially on the PP. WAY too much standing around on the PP, and it's not even looking better.

Blizzard6411 02-13-2013 12:35 PM

There is nothing resembling a rush and when there is our passing in tight quarters is awful and results in a turnover. This team is not able to penetrate a defense in any way shape form or fashion with exception of a couple of players, the power suffers because of this and is why we see weak wrist shots from the point over and over or Parise having to try to muscle a puck in.

Heatley is the proverbial elephant in the corner that no one in Wild management wants to discuss. It is a huge problem for this team because what the hell do you do if you are in their shoes? Scratch a 7.5 million a year forward who is more then likely to lose his mind over such a thing?
Can't trade him because no one else in the league wants a 7.5 mil a year cap hit player whose skills haven't just declined but have flat out disappeared and quite honestly i don't think they are coming back. I liked what Yeo did last night putting him back on the top line because i think that is the only place he can possibly exist and the team can possibly get garbage goals out of him in front of the net but that is really a big issue when a player causing so many head aches on the ice has to for all intents and purposes play on the top line.
Trade Heatley for a popcorn vendor if you can but i just don't think there is going to be a taker out there for him.

On a positive note (i like to end on positive notes unlike the Wild this year) I like what i am seeing out of Granlund and Setoguchi. There seems to be something happening between those two and they are really beginning to gel it seems as line mates. I like Coyle back with them because that is a line combo that reeks of potential imo. I have been very negative on Seto going back to last year but this past week/week and a half he has absolutely showed some of the dynamics that had people buzzing about the player he should be. Do not trade this guy! He has woken up and may actually be living up to that potential tag that has been laid around his neck for the previous seasons.

I would love to see Zucker up here but where do you put him? (Back to the elephant in the corner named Dany Heatley)!

DANOZ28 02-13-2013 12:56 PM

im still chuckling over the alien thing thx man! ps who we gonna call? ghost busters!

Mo Wanchuk 02-13-2013 01:03 PM

Need a PMD. The zone entry on the PP is abysmal.

Need to shoot more and crash the net. Get a dirty goal, not everything needs to be a perfect setup. Go to the net and good things will happen.

Last night the nucks were smothering on the forecheck, would like to see the wild do some more pressuring on the forecheck as well. Pressure the D and cause some turnovers.

Bench Heater. Wake his ass up. He looked terrible last night.


Thats all I got.

TheeNorthStar 02-13-2013 01:13 PM

Yeo.

There is no question in my mind anymore.

llamapalooza 02-13-2013 01:17 PM

My guess: our offensive system is one dimensional. Yes, every team does the dump-and-chase sometimes, but we dump religiously. It's not one facet of our offense; it's the only facet of our offense. It's really predictable and opposing teams know it coming in. It just turns into a game of fetch. A good dump and chase is used to counterattack against a team that defends the rush too aggressively and leaves a lot of space around and behind the net. But we don't need a weak dump from the redline every time the D have the puck outside their own zone, and someone needs to tell the forwards that the point is to get the puck in the goal, not behind it.

TZM 02-13-2013 01:28 PM

- Poor entries
- Dump and chase
- Bad/no passing play
- Slow/no movement in o zone
- Lack of creativity (play-it-simple)

Jarick 02-13-2013 01:46 PM

Before reading the responses to cloud my mind...

1. Forwards aren't getting the puck in the offensive zone, either losing the foot race on the dump and chase or losing the puck and turning it over along the boards. Not sure if this is a personnel issue, systems issue, or effort issue. But the last couple games the effort has been there, just not the execution, so I'm leaning more of the first two.

Evidence: Wild are 22nd in even strength shot differential per 60 minutes at -2.9. They are giving up more shots than they are taking at even strength, which usually happens when a team is not controlling the puck.

2. Extended stretches of sloppy play in all three zones, which keeps the Wild hemmed in their end or constantly on the defense. Really bad turnovers along the boards in the defensive zone and the far blue line. Again, don't know if it's that the players can't execute Mike's system, or is Mike's system too difficult for the players?

Evidence: Wild are 19th in takeaway vs giveaway differential at -23. Wild are also 26th in even strength goals for vs against ratio. Turning the puck over and giving up shots at even strength will lead to losing the 5v5 game.

3. Terrible power play. Started off hot and have been quite cold, picked up slightly the last few games but still not good. Not enough puck or player movement, opposing teams can just play tight on the Wild, they play pass for a while and get a shot and then can't set back up in the zone.

Evidence: Wild are 20th in PP% on the season, but went scoreless for four games followed by a still below-average 17.6% the last four games that they've been "hot".

4. Lots of bad luck. Seen them playing hard and taking shots and hitting posts, bars, and missing shots. Lots of close calls with empty nets. Pucks that trickle the wrong way. It's not the biggest excuse, that would be a cop out, but there's a bit of reality.

Evidence: Wild are 29th in shooting percentage. That has to improve.

llamapalooza 02-13-2013 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarick (Post 59644763)
4. Lots of bad luck. Seen them playing hard and taking shots and hitting posts, bars, and missing shots. Lots of close calls with empty nets. Pucks that trickle the wrong way. It's not the biggest excuse, that would be a cop out, but there's a bit of reality.

Evidence: Wild are 29th in shooting percentage. That has to improve.

I'm not convinced that they actually have "bad luck." But I'm willing to believe that the brief appearance of bad luck is a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy: that players are getting frustrated and feeling like they're not getting rewarded and that the lack of scoring isn't really their fault...and the psychological frustration from this is causing them to grip the stick a bit too tight and miss chances, which is making the frustration worse.

MN_Gopher 02-13-2013 02:13 PM

I would like to see. Again things would need to change. We are not one giant machine. I do not think one blanket system will work, for any team. We seem to try and have everyone on the exact same page line and letter.

Koivu- Heater- PMB
Heater cannot play with the puck on his stick. Put him with two carries and let him park. Koivu has made a career out of playing with just about anyone. This is PMBs chance to prove he belongs or not. PMB either becomes a top 6 forard or is waived. Bring up Zucker. But not on this line. With our D, Gilbert, Spurgeon, Suter and Brodin all can jump up, and move the puck. Which really makes a rooted Heatley more effective. Watching Heater under Yeo reminds me of Parrish under JL. One trick ponies do their thing, not yours. Heatley has 24+ goals every year, he is not broke just misused.

Cullen- Parise- Seto
If any line can get an odd man rush its this one. Speed, vertical play. Just get it and go. They would play out of Yeo's style but hey we need to generate something. This is also a line that can play D and could match up vs a teams #1. Where PMB and Heater are not great in their own end.

Granlund- Coyle- Clutterbuck
Put the future together. If Clutterbuck plays like he does Coyle will be involved in more scrums, get him an edge to his game. Clutterbuck can shoot from a distance and Coyle is a more mobil garbage man. Grandlund should be able to set them both up.

4th line.

rynryn 02-13-2013 02:19 PM

gypsy curse.

I blame Heatley.

What llama said...i think frustration is building and building and while they're still getting used to the system they're second guessing themselves all over the ice. its crazy how many shots take so long to release--it's like they're thinking "Is this the right play" every time they have the puck rather than just knowing. Their options get stripped from them in that extra second and we turn it over or throw a soft wrister through traffic in the vicinity of the net (if we're lucky). The only forwards who haven't been hesitating with the puck lately are Seto, clutterbuck, and ZK IMO.

Avder 02-13-2013 02:20 PM

For some reason I want to see what a Seto-Granlund-Parise line could do lately.

I am really starting to lose faith in this team. And yeah, it's on the players to be able to score more, but it is also on a certain person to make them at least attempt to score more: Yeo. The longer this dead streak goes on, the more I think he is going to get canned, and the more I think he deserves it. The big problem with that of course is that there is currently no one of note available in the free coaches pool. So that's why I think we wait to see what teams start to fire what coaches sometime in the next few days to few weeks, and we maybe snap up someone who is a good coach who got fired because the team was bad, like Boudreau last year when he was fired from the Caps and the Ducks snatched him up before the ink on his pink slip was dry.


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