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-   -   It's time to do what we should have done from the beginning (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1349293)

Inferno 02-13-2013 01:00 PM

It's time to do what we should have done from the beginning
 
I've said from the beginning that I think the way this team will become successful is to have our big 3 play on 3 different lines. I'll say it again today.

If we want to become a legitimate, holy crap how do you stop them, team, then Brad Richards, Marian Gaborik, and Rick Nash need to all play on different lines.

Then, coming off of a PK or going into a PP you load up. Or if the team is struggling you throw them together for a shift or 2...or if the opposition ices the puck with their 4th line, you load up.

But by and large, on the "average" shift I think we need to have 1 superstar out there at all times (sans the 4th line of course...but Torts is really more of a 3 line coach anyway)


Hagelin - Stepan - Nash -->Needs explanation?

Kreider - Richards - Callahan -->Richards and Callahan have played well together when they were there last year...Callahan & Kreider bring speed to a center that sorely needs it.

Pyatt - Miller - Gaborik --> Gaborik is at his best when 2 guys around him can go do the grunt work, he can get lost, and then find himself open for goals. Miller has excellent vision. Put them together.

Boyle/Asham/Halpern/Power...pick the 3 that are going and play them. One has an off day, put in the benched one...make them play their ***** off to keep their spot.

Thirty One 02-13-2013 01:02 PM

I thought you liked Gaborik, why would you do that to him?

And I'm sure you mean Boyle, not Rupp.

dccuse 02-13-2013 01:04 PM

Agree fully. There were times last night when I felt Cally was shouldering too much of the offensive burden on his line and being prevented from doing what he does best... scrappy goals. Until Miller is more comfortable carrying the puck and acting as the center, Cally could benefit from being with another center.

And I agree that Richards doesn't make Gabby effective... space does... What better way to limit the responsibility of the two young guys than to say, "Hey, go create space, work the boards, dish it up to gabby at circles, charging or waiting..."

Great point!

SupersonicMonkey* 02-13-2013 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inferno (Post 59638637)
I've said from the beginning that I think the way this team will become successful is to have our big 3 play on 3 different lines. I'll say it again today.

If we want to become a legitimate, holy crap how do you stop them, team, then Brad Richards, Marian Gaborik, and Rick Nash need to all play on different lines.

Then, coming off of a PK or going into a PP you load up. Or if the team is struggling you throw them together for a shift or 2...or if the opposition ices the puck with their 4th line, you load up.

But by and large, on the "average" shift I think we need to have 1 superstar out there at all times (sans the 4th line of course...but Torts is really more of a 3 line coach anyway)


Hagelin - Stepan - Nash -->Needs explanation?

Kreider - Richards - Callahan -->Richards and Callahan have played well together when they were there last year...Callahan & Kreider bring speed to a center that sorely needs it.

Pyatt - Miller - Gaborik --> Gaborik is at his best when 2 guys around him can go do the grunt work, he can get lost, and then find himself open for goals. Miller has excellent vision. Put them together.

Rupp/Asham/Halpern/Power...pick the 3 that are going and play them. One has an off day, put in the benched one...make them play their ***** off to keep their spot.

I'm in agreement.

Richards-Callahan
Hagelin-Nash
Gaborik-x

What ever pairs works.

I like these lines you have listed. And your reasoning.

nevesis 02-13-2013 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31- (Post 59638809)
I thought you liked Gaborik, why would you do that to him?

And I'm sure you mean Boyle, not Rupp.

Why is it a stigma for a high-paid, or 'elite' player to be put on the third line. It shouldn't matter what line he's on, it matters who he is playing with.

Those lines inferno put out are actually very interesting and I wouldn't mind giving that a look.

Thirty One 02-13-2013 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevesis (Post 59638919)
Why is it a stigma for a high-paid, or 'elite' player to be put on the third line. It shouldn't matter what line he's on, it matters who he is playing with.

Those lines inferno put out are actually very interesting and I wouldn't mind giving that a look.

It's not about the number of the line, it's the linemates I object to.

SupersonicMonkey* 02-13-2013 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31- (Post 59638969)
It's not about the number of the line, it's the linemates I object to.

Gaborik does no dirty work, on his own, to create opportunities.

He needs guys who will actually work to gain control of the puck.

Pyatt and Miller work their behinds off. Are big bodies that could open space for Gaborik to float around like he does, and wait for the puck in a high percentage scoring area.

SnowblindNYR 02-13-2013 01:12 PM

You hurt the 2nd line like that.

SupersonicMonkey* 02-13-2013 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR (Post 59639323)
You hurt the 2nd line like that.

Richards is not effective down low, doing grunt work.

Callahan did a lot of that grunt work for him last year. And Kreider needs a pure passer to get him the puck.

Thirty One 02-13-2013 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey (Post 59639301)
Gaborik does no dirty work, on his own, to create opportunities.

He needs guys who will actually work to gain control of the puck.

Pyatt and Miller work their behinds off. Are big bodies that could open space for Gaborik to float around like he does, and wait for the puck in a high percentage scoring area.

I don't doubt they ability to battle for the puck. I doubt their ability to retain and distribute it.

offdacrossbar 02-13-2013 01:18 PM

gaborik needs top 2 line minutes. hes a streaky scorer. he needs to play.

rather than dilute the talent to 3 lines, i think we need to concentrate our firepower on the top 2 lines at even strength and play a legitimate 3rd line that can help out and check. the fourth line is an after thought with torts the clown. give em 6-8 minutes per night and thats that. really, they dont matter a whole lot.

hags richie nasher- thats a top line with speed, passing, size and scoring. true first line as long as hags can just use his speed to create..

kreider steps gabs- speed, good creative passer, size, sniper. and a pretty tough 2nd line to match up against.

pyatt miller cally- power, grunt and defensively responsible. a true 3rd line that can score.

AND FIX THE POWERPLAY !!!!!!!!!!!!

if we do, this is a very difficult team to play against.

SnowblindNYR 02-13-2013 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey (Post 59639455)
Richards is not effective down low, doing grunt work.

Callahan did a lot of that grunt work for him last year. And Kreider needs a pure passer to get him the puck.

Pyatt can do that now.

SnowblindNYR 02-13-2013 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offdacrossbar (Post 59639745)
gaborik needs top 2 line minutes. hes a streaky scorer. he needs to play.

rather than dilute the talent to 3 lines, i think we need to concentrate our firepower on the top 2 lines at even strength and play a legitimate 3rd line that can help out and check. the fourth line is an after thought with torts the clown. give em 6-8 minutes per night and thats that. really, they dont matter a whole lot.

hags richie nasher- thats a top line with speed, passing, size and scoring. true first line as long as hags can just use his speed to create..

kreider steps gabs- speed, good creative passer, size, sniper. and a pretty tough 2nd line to match up against.

pyatt miller cally- power, grunt and defensively responsible. a true 3rd line that can score.

AND FIX THE POWERPLAY !!!!!!!!!!!!

if we do, this is a very difficult team to play against.

Why in G-d's name are you breaking up Step's line? It was the best line the last 2 games.

Ail 02-13-2013 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offdacrossbar (Post 59639745)
gaborik needs top 2 line minutes. hes a streaky scorer. he needs to play.

rather than dilute the talent to 3 lines, i think we need to concentrate our firepower on the top 2 lines at even strength and play a legitimate 3rd line that can help out and check. the fourth line is an after thought with torts the clown. give em 6-8 minutes per night and thats that. really, they dont matter a whole lot.

hags richie nasher- thats a top line with speed, passing, size and scoring. true first line as long as hags can just use his speed to create..

kreider steps gabs- speed, good creative passer, size, sniper. and a pretty tough 2nd line to match up against.

pyatt miller cally- power, grunt and defensively responsible. a true 3rd line that can score.

AND FIX THE POWERPLAY !!!!!!!!!!!!

if we do, this is a very difficult team to play against.

That second line concerns me. They would lose a lot of battles, especially if Stepan and Gabs are in ghost mode.

In regards to the OP:

I would put Nash on his own line since he can create and make others around him better. He's the easiest of the three to separate and not worry about how he will play.

The problem with keeping Richards and Gabby together is they have almost zero chemistry and right now with Richards playing like doodoo, it's not really a great idea. So you almost have to break all three of them up just out of necessity.

haveandare 02-13-2013 01:29 PM

I think the lines are fine as they are. Richards hasn't been playing like a big 3 player, he isn't going to carry a line with the half-effort he's displayed so far. Nash, Gaborik and Callahan are the 3 best players right now and they're on different lines.

bogans 02-13-2013 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offdacrossbar (Post 59639745)
gaborik needs top 2 line minutes. hes a streaky scorer. he needs to play.

rather than dilute the talent to 3 lines, i think we need to concentrate our firepower on the top 2 lines at even strength and play a legitimate 3rd line that can help out and check. the fourth line is an after thought with torts the clown. give em 6-8 minutes per night and thats that. really, they dont matter a whole lot.

hags richie nasher- thats a top line with speed, passing, size and scoring. true first line as long as hags can just use his speed to create..

kreider steps gabs- speed, good creative passer, size, sniper. and a pretty tough 2nd line to match up against.

pyatt miller cally- power, grunt and defensively responsible. a true 3rd line that can score.

AND FIX THE POWERPLAY !!!!!!!!!!!!

if we do, this is a very difficult team to play against.

I will agree with this post. Fixing the power play is the critical piece, if NYR can score at a 20% clip, they are close to unbeatable. I just don't get why we always try to make the extra pass on the PP when all of the goals that they have actually scored have been rebounds. Just get shots through. If they have a powerplay that puts six shots on net, but does not score I would accept that. Its this power play that gets maybe one shot on net, while the opponent gets two breakaway chances and takes away the momentum that is really killing them.

Jackson Ranger 02-13-2013 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR (Post 59639863)
Pyatt can do that now.

I think Pyatt's game has declined a bit. I'd be interested to see how Powe fits in with Richards/Gaborik or more on topic, I'd switch Pyatt and Powe on Inferno's list of forwards.

Powe can dig as well, plays a very responsible defensive game and has better speed than Pyatt to keep up with Gaborik.

The negative is it takes away from the 4th line that has been playing very well.

Inferno 02-13-2013 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31- (Post 59638809)
I thought you liked Gaborik, why would you do that to him?

And I'm sure you mean Boyle, not Rupp.

good catch...brain freeze there for a minute :P

SnowblindNYR 02-13-2013 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackson Ranger (Post 59640579)
I think Pyatt's game has declined a bit. I'd be interested to see how Powe fits in with Richards/Gaborik or more on topic, I'd switch Pyatt and Powe on Inferno's list of forwards.

Powe can dig as well, plays a very responsible defensive game and has better speed than Pyatt to keep up with Gaborik.

The negative is it takes away from the 4th line that has been playing very well.

I don't think Powe is skilled enough to be anything other than a 4th liner. Would you put Prust on one of the 3 top lines?

Inferno 02-13-2013 01:43 PM

For their entire careers, Rick Nash, Marian Gaborik, and Brad Richards played with pretty much nobody. When Richards was winning his Conn Smythe I believe he was playing with Fedotenko and maybe Andreychuk?

Nash played with a traffic cone and a bottle of zima.

Gaborik played with pretty much nobody his career as well. He scored 40 goals his first year here...who did he play with? Dubinsky & Prospal? Can't remember.

Either way, these guys are used to basically carrying lines by themselves...Richards probably less so since he's more of a passer than scorer, so you put him with 2 guys who aren't really the best passers in the world in Callahan & Kreider (they aren't bad, but they're at their best when they are selfish players shooting the puck).

Inferno 02-13-2013 01:47 PM

By splitting them up in this manner, you're pretty much rolling 3 1B-C type lines...

They are all #1 lines on most average to below average teams...except most average to below average teams don't have 2 lines that are coming right behind that line that are pretty much as good, if not better than the line that just got out there. If 1 line isn't going 1 of the others might be.

It would be like playing against the #1 line of the New York Islanders the entire game. Moulson - Tavares - Okposo is a damn good line, but let's face it, they arent a line capable of single handedly carrying a team to the playoffs.

Neither would any of those lines I listed...the key, is to basically be playing Moulson - Tavares - Okposo for 50-55 minutes a night. It's not realistic for the Isles to do, but, but splitting the players up the way we have, it's pretty much like having the same effect.

Thirty One 02-13-2013 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inferno (Post 59641207)
For their entire careers, Rick Nash, Marian Gaborik, and Brad Richards played with pretty much nobody. When Richards was winning his Conn Smythe I believe he was playing with Fedotenko and maybe Andreychuk?

I think it was mostly Stillman and Modin.

Inferno 02-13-2013 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31- (Post 59641461)
I think it was mostly Stillman and Modin.

I stand corrected...just double checked it and you are right.

Modin was a 40 pt player, Stillman a 50-60 pt player...

I see no reason why you can't get similar results pairing Callahan & Kreider with Richards....40-60 pt pace from each...

SnowblindNYR 02-13-2013 02:03 PM

Richards at this point is a role player. He's not going to carry lines by himself and make them a first line. He's had trouble even with Gaborik, one of the best snipers in the league. Taking away Gaborik from his line will make his line the 3rd best line by a fairly sizable margin.

M Gaz 02-13-2013 02:07 PM

Nash can create space on his own, so keeping Richards with Callahan and Gaborik with Pyatt should work.


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