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-   -   MacIntyre and the changing role of the enforcer (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1350517)

STLPensFan 02-14-2013 03:44 PM

MacIntyre and the changing role of the enforcer
 
Are people happier to have MacIntyre sitting in the AHL now? I know there were some rumblings when we resigned him and parked him in WBS. Will Engo be sufficient to keep the peace at the end of the season when we play again? Do we sit Cooke? Do we sit Crosby? Both? Neither? Bring Smacker up? Does Cooke have to fight his own battle? Does Smacker lineup along with him on Cooke's first shift like he did when Vitale had to answer the call against Philly?

The larger questions here are does this incident illustrate the value of an enforcer or illustrate how long gone that era is?

Darth Vitale 02-14-2013 03:49 PM

I've never been a big fan of enforcers being part of hockey but sometimes I do wonder if the Pens' "toughness by committee" approach works in situations like last night. In the end though Cooke handled it well and the refs took care of problem before it got out of hand... technically that's what we want to happen. Anyway while we have a number of guys willing to fight, only one of those guys is actually a good fighter / can throw some heavy punches, and that's Engo.

Even so I don't think we'd call him a "heavyweight". Thing is heavyweights are useless most of the time and you don't know which games they'll be needed. Last night a good example of that: no coach would anticipate needing an enforcer against Ottawa. Most likely he'd get called vs. Philly, NYI, maybe Boston. So for times when needed against non-rivals, chances are good they won't be there unless you're going to use up a roster slot on a bum who gets 4 minutes a game every night.

billybudd 02-14-2013 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STLPensFan (Post 59720777)
Are people happier to have MacIntyre sitting in the AHL now? I know there were some rumblings when we resigned him and parked him in WBS. Will Engo be sufficient to keep the peace at the end of the season when we play again? Do we sit Cooke? Do we sit Crosby? Both? Neither? Bring Smacker up? Does Cooke have to fight his own battle? Does Smacker lineup along with him on Cooke's first shift like he did when Vitale had to answer the call against Philly?

The larger questions here are does this incident illustrate the value of an enforcer or illustrate how long gone that era is?

I see what you're getting at, but MacIntyre's a bad example. Even by "enforcer" standards, this guy really can't play hockey. I'm not convinced he could have cemented a roster spot in this league back when every team had at least one 3 shift a night enforcer dressed every night.

MichiganWolverines 02-14-2013 04:17 PM

I understand why people don't like enforcers, but I wouldn't see a problem dressing Steve MacIntyre for games against teams who have toughness. There are many teams in the Eastern Conference that have an enforcer, and I don't want to see Deryk Engelland fighting enforcers too often since he's a solid bottom-pairing defenseman. Deryk Engelland's first two fights of the season were against Colton Orr and Krys Barch, who can't play hockey for ****.

Zen Arcade 02-14-2013 04:27 PM

It wouldn't surprise me if MacIntyre was up for the game in April.

Although, Ottawa doesn't really have much after Neil.

You've got a couple decent, willing fighters in Zach Smith and Mark Borowiecki, and then pretty much nothing. There's no comparison, to say, the Isles situation where they could roll out Gillies, Haley, Martin and Konopka.

Tasty Biscuits 02-14-2013 04:31 PM

Engo is good enough for us I'd say.

Mac is much more needed in the minors, where things tend to get out of hand a bit more often.

Ziggyjoe21 02-14-2013 04:49 PM

Enforcers like Mac and Godard are not just useless, they're a liability and an embarrassment.

We have Engo and Glass and even Adams to fight if needed.

wej20 02-14-2013 05:07 PM

I don't mind having him as a nuclear option down in WBS who can be called on if desperate but even if you fight, to play regular at the NHL level you have to be able to handle 8-10 mins of ice time.

Jacob 02-14-2013 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wej20 (Post 59724487)
I don't mind having him as a nuclear option down in WBS who can be called on if desperate

I agree with this. A guy like him might only be needed for a half dozen games a year (Islanders last year, Flyers at the end of the season, Ottawa this year) but its nice to have a *legit* heavyweight somewhere in the system.

And in between those games he can be a good deterrent in the minor league. Less cheap shots can only help our prospects.

Honour Over Glory 02-14-2013 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STLPensFan (Post 59720777)
Are people happier to have MacIntyre sitting in the AHL now? I know there were some rumblings when we resigned him and parked him in WBS. Will Engo be sufficient to keep the peace at the end of the season when we play again? Do we sit Cooke? Do we sit Crosby? Both? Neither? Bring Smacker up? Does Cooke have to fight his own battle? Does Smacker lineup along with him on Cooke's first shift like he did when Vitale had to answer the call against Philly?

The larger questions here are does this incident illustrate the value of an enforcer or illustrate how long gone that era is?

I'd call up Mac for the next Sens game, just for insurance in case Neil decides to jump players instead of going with a willing combatant (which Engelland gladly would have been had he asked).

Honour Over Glory 02-14-2013 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 (Post 59723823)
Enforcers like Mac and Godard are not just useless, they're a liability and an embarrassment.

We have Engo and Glass and even Adams to fight if needed.

Glass & Engo can actually win fights, Adams is just am embarrassment.

lampshade* 02-14-2013 05:50 PM

if Mac is dressed for next Sens game Neil will run like a scared dog. I would like to see Big Mac in that game

Terrapin 02-14-2013 05:55 PM

Nowadays, the best 'enforcers' are guys like Neil and Engelland; guys that can actually play. But I would definitely have Mac in the lineup for Ottawa next game, against the Bruins, and maybe the Leafs (who have seemed to turn into the Isles from a few years ago). Craig Adams, Vitale, Kennedy, etc are solid players. But sitting them for one game here and there isn't going to kill us. And as someone else said, even though Engo's awesome, I don't want to see him taking on goons like John Scott.

Terrapin 02-14-2013 05:58 PM

As far as the next Sens game, what 'happens' is going to be up to Cooke. If he immediately squares off with Neil to get it over with, then it'll likely be done. Similar to how he answered in Boston to Thorton. But if he doesn't, or if he doesn't play that game, then it'll probably be open season on Sid, Geno, etc.

Jacob 02-14-2013 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapin (Post 59726649)
As far as the next Sens game, what 'happens' is going to be up to Cooke. If he immediately squares off with Neil to get it over with, then it'll likely be done. Similar to how he answered in Boston to Thorton. But if he doesn't, or if he doesn't play that game, then it'll probably be open season on Sid, Geno, etc.

Not comparable situations. Cooke shouldn't have to fight a legit enforcer for a completely accidental play.

turd 02-14-2013 06:09 PM

The thing with Thornton or Parros or even Orr lately is that they can take a semi-regular shift and chip in offensively now and again. MacIntyre has less than zero skill. He's worthless.

Zen Arcade 02-14-2013 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turd (Post 59727119)
The thing with Thornton or Parros or even Orr lately is that they can take a semi-regular shift and chip in offensively now and again. MacIntyre has less than zero skill. He's worthless.

Yeah, but there's still nothing wrong with keeping a guy like him in the AHL, just in case.

I've said that I don't think he's done enough, even in Wilkes-Barre, but it's still in the back of other players' minds that if he goes off, pretty much no one can do anything about it.

turd 02-14-2013 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen Arcade (Post 59727569)
Yeah, but there's still nothing wrong with keeping a guy like him in the AHL, just in case.

I've said that I don't think he's done enough, even in Wilkes-Barre, but it's still in the back of other players' minds that if he goes off, pretty much no one can do anything about it.

No doubt. If the writing is clearly on the wall, I have no problem with dressing him, but if not, I'll take my chances with Engo/Glass/Kennedy or whoever else wants to step up.

Terrapin 02-14-2013 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob (Post 59726757)
Not comparable situations. Cooke shouldn't have to fight a legit enforcer for a completely accidental play.

Yeah, but it doesn't really matter if you, I, or Cooke thinks it's accidental does it? Ottawa certainly doesn't, as evidenced by the statements of their idiot coach and GM. And to be honest, I don't really blame them.

MetalheadPenguinsFan 02-14-2013 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob (Post 59726757)
Not comparable situations. Cooke shouldn't have to fight a legit enforcer for a completely accidental play.

I agree.

Plus Neil had his fun roughing up Cooke last night.

As of now, this whole thing should be over...period.

Terrapin 02-14-2013 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turd (Post 59728967)
No doubt. If the writing is clearly on the wall, I have no problem with dressing him, but if not, I'll take my chances with Engo/Glass/Kennedy or whoever else wants to step up.

Having a lineup consisting of Mac, Engo, Glass, and Bortuzzo, plus guys like Vitale, TK, etc easily makes us the 'toughest' team in the league, or close to it. I doubt all those guys will ever dress at once, and rightfully so. But no other team could match that, except maybe Boston. Now if Ottawa calls up a few goons from the AHL next game, then it could get ugly.

MetalheadPenguinsFan 02-14-2013 06:47 PM

It's times like this where I miss Asham.

Zen Arcade 02-14-2013 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapin (Post 59729813)
Having a lineup consisting of Mac, Engo, Glass, and Bortuzzo, plus guys like Vitale, TK, etc easily makes us the 'toughest' team in the league, or close to it. I doubt all those guys will ever dress at once, and rightfully so. But no other team could match that, except maybe Boston. Now if Ottawa calls up a few goons from the AHL next game, then it could get ugly.

They really don't have anyone.

Mark Borowiecki is a physical defenseman that will fight from time to time, similar to Bortuzzo, but they don't really have anything else, Darren Kramer fights a lot, but he's in the ECHL and he's really nothing special.

Like I said, they can't roll out a lineup like the Isles did.

Ogrezilla 02-14-2013 07:22 PM

if a guy can't play at least 10 minutes a night when needed, I don't want him on my team.

As far as the idea of bringing Mac up for teams with a tough guy so Engo doesn't have to fight him, I have a simple question. How about nobody fights him? Let them waste a roster spot. Staged fights are the dumbest thing in the world. Do Engo and Orr ever fight for a reason? No, they are a damn side show. Just play hockey

Ogrezilla 02-14-2013 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory (Post 59726133)
I'd call up Mac for the next Sens game, just for insurance in case Neil decides to jump players instead of going with a willing combatant (which Engelland gladly would have been had he asked).

serious question, what will Mac do to prevent this from the bench?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetalheadPenguinsFan (Post 59729971)
It's times like this where I miss Asham.

and then we play the rangers and its pretty obvious Glass is a better hockey player


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