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-   -   Do you want to lose? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1351101)

Kamus 02-15-2013 11:57 AM

Do you want to lose?
 
No, Im not talking about losing for the draft pick. I am talking about losing for change in managment. If we are somewhat successful this year (not bottom 5 in the league), Oilers managments and ownership will take it as a positive and keep it status quo. If we finish at the bottom again, might ownership actually realize that we have the worst managment in the nhl for the last 8 years? Or is the old boys club too tight? This was similiar to what happened before our cup run. Oilers were a mediocre to bad team and there were rumours of changing management and coaching. We went on the run and status quo prevailed. Which made us suffer through 2-3 years of a crappy team trying to achieve more then they could.

I hate even thinking of being somewhat happy that oilers are losing, because I want to see us be succesful and be a perennial cup contender. I just dont see that with our current management.....Thoughts.......

Unlike some other posters who want to blow everything up... I do beleive we have good young players to build around, just dont believe in management to fill pieces around them.

boring day at work, just thinking out loud, and probably will regret posting after getting flamed.....

AlowlyOilersfan 02-15-2013 12:00 PM

Maybe it's time Klowe stepped down.

oilersfan11 02-15-2013 12:02 PM

The only way we see a change in management is if we finish last overall.


Or first overall,depending on how you look at it.:laugh:

oilersfan11 02-15-2013 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlowlyOilersfan (Post 59768159)
Maybe it's time Klowe stepped down.

He shouldn't have stepped-up in the first place.:D

Master Lok 02-15-2013 12:11 PM

if we finish last again, then its not just management that needs to be changed, but the players also.

Clearly then the players that we have in place are not as good as advertised.

Soundwave 02-15-2013 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Lok (Post 59768741)
if we finish last again, then its not just management that needs to be changed, but the players also.

Clearly then the players that we have in place are not as good as advertised.

I would not trade any of the 5 kids unless we are getting like a Tavares, Malkin, etc. back (which ain't happening).

Let them develop and hire a competent GM. Draft Jones or MacKinnon and trade Hemsky + Gagner.

Imagine the Canucks traded the Sedins because they were frustrated at their slow curve development.

Jimmi Jenkins 02-15-2013 12:19 PM

No, I NEVER want the team to lose. I haven't reach the point where any Hatred I may have for Coaches, Managers or Players distorts the Fact that I'm a FAN of this team.

Ugh with this.

Gone 02-15-2013 12:28 PM

A few of us have been calling for a change in management since the Pronger trade. That management group would include both KLowe and Tambellini, as there is sufficient evidence that Tambellini doesn't make a move without his masters blessing.

An unbiased review of the history of management would show anything from utter incompetance through moderate success. The biggest knock against management in my view is the arrogant treatment of players and agents (Comrie's treatment by KLowe is just one example). This type of treatment resonates quite loudly with the NHLPA and it's members, and I believe is the single biggest reason UFA's refuse to sign here.

Tamblowe's track record when it comes to making trades to benefit the team is abhorrent; and when posters here defend it, it really says more about the poster than Tamblowe.

It is also clear that there ability to evaluate and recognize the needs of the "team" is lacking. A simple example is filling the team with smurfs, in a league that requires grit and size to win. This group has never been able to fill holes in the roster, and when they plug one leak ... it seems like the generate 2 or 3 others.

Their track record with RFA's and UFA's is just as bad as their track record with trades. We all know about such UFA disasters as Khabi; which are only moderately offset by signings such as Jones. What is clear though, are some players such as Schultz signing here as a UFA is a glimmer of light; but even as Tamblowe point out, he picked the Oilers, not the other way around. This is a homerun signing, but arguably one that dropped into their laps.

The draft track record is mediocre, and I believe still a work in progress. In evaluating Kevin Prendergast's work; who was hand picked by KLowe; drafting kid's such as Dubnyk and Petry clearly could not offset the abysmal record in off the board 1st round selections such as MAP, Nash, Plante etc. MacGregor in my mind has faired only slightly better because of the Eberle homerun. However, when evaluating him, take away the 1st overall picks and his record is probably less than average. Recently, I've wondered if in evaluating him, we look at just his North American team, how have they faired?

The coaching carousel is a joke. Four coaches in four years. Really, what happends next year? Five in five? There is only one team in the NHL that would allow management to get away with this. Want to guess which team that is?

I know many posters will tell you this is part of a grand plan devised by the evil genius KLowe. But that is nonsense ... this so called 'rebuild' was not planned. It was thrust upon them by failure after failure; and only then did KLowe promote himself and put in Tambellini as his fall-guy for the inevitable failures to come.

I only keep my Oiler "fan card", in the hope that one day, this management team will be fired. Rest assured, 3 or 4 years from now, when this team is continuing it's Florida / NYI style rebuild, and Hall is demanding a trade, Tamblowe will be replaced by MacT (the only guy with a brain in the oranization, and the sole proprietor of the 2006 cup run) ... and no, I don't want to lose anymore.

Soundwave 02-15-2013 12:30 PM

Yeah I agree Stu McGregor needs to show something other than that Eberle pick.

It's easy to draft no.1 overall, we need to get more out of our secondary 1sts and 2nds and 3rds.

raab 02-15-2013 12:39 PM

No I don't want to lose. I'm hoping management pulls there heads out of there ***** and brings us in a dman. That said if we pick top 5 again they should fire someone in management, hopefully Tambo who has been full of fail since he got here.

dnicks17 02-15-2013 12:40 PM

If we end up losing and drafting early, it'll just have been Tambo's "plan".

Katz will give him a pat on the back and we'll do it all again next season.

Beerfish 02-15-2013 12:43 PM

Losing for a change in management is a non factor. It hasn't mattered in the past and won't in the future until things totally reach and end point.

Mizral 02-15-2013 12:52 PM

Just wanted to add that Craig MacTavish I feel is an amazing hockey guy and is the best guy the organization has. If there is a house cleaning - and lord knows this team needs it - I hope he is given a lot more say in how the team goes moving forward. I'd love to see him with another shot behind the bench. I'm pretty sure that's where he wants to be unless there is a management spot available for him down the road.

jmco 02-15-2013 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizral (Post 59770899)
Just wanted to add that Craig MacTavish I feel is an amazing hockey guy and is the best guy the organization has. If there is a house cleaning - and lord knows this team needs it - I hope he is given a lot more say in how the team goes moving forward. I'd love to see him with another shot behind the bench. I'm pretty sure that's where he wants to be unless there is a management spot available for him down the road.

Fire Tambi & more importantly Fire Lowe. I sometimes wonder how much rope the GM actually has and it its just a figure head position so Lowe can continue with less public scrutiny.

I'd also like to see MacT run the oilers only if he has complete control. He's the boss nobody above him beside Katz.

Mac T doesn't need to go behind the bench. Kruger is doing fine so far & I like Kruger's attitude, anyone can be scratched & anyone can be put on the 3rd/4th line regardless of salary or past accomplishments. Kruger is miles ahead of Renney.

Kamus 02-15-2013 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins (Post 59769191)
No, I NEVER want the team to lose. I haven't reach the point where any Hatred I may have for Coaches, Managers or Players distorts the Fact that I'm a FAN of this team.

Ugh with this.

Beleive me, I never want to lose. Im the guy who makes sure I finish pissing ahead of the guy next to me in the washroom, just to say im the best pisser out there. Im just a realist. This management is not intelligent enough to build a winner. So asking management to get their head out of their ***, is like asking a baby to build a nuclear reactor, its impossible. It seems like things in Edmonton have to be really bad for anything to happen.Just like how long deciding to actually rebuild took.

With Tamb/Lowe, we might be a playoff team in the future, but thats on the shear talent of the kids, and hopefully Krueger. But thats not good enough for me, I want us to win championships. With Lowbellini, that like asking that baby.If we stay with those two, after finishing 5-8 for four years and losing in the first round, it might be to late for a change in the managment with our kids being older.

I want this team to get better, but my fear is that it might be detrimental to us winning a championship.

Just my thoughts....from a guy who got cut from the team due to politics.....Damn coaches son who made the team, still remember that guy

Jimmi Jenkins 02-15-2013 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamus (Post 59772607)
Beleive me, I never want to lose. Im the guy who makes sure I finish pissing ahead of the guy next to me in the washroom, just to say im the best pisser out there. Im just a realist.

Again, I can understand frustration, but anything after this is just, imo, justification of an excuse. No matter how infuriating the management, coaches or players are, if you are a Fan of the team, you should Never want them to lose, even if you think it's the "right thing"

Just like in the case of getting Hall or the Nuge, truthfully losing was the best option, but I never wanted them to, so I guess that's the rub, if that makes any sense.

Moneypuck 02-15-2013 01:37 PM

Little remains in doubt, the Oilers are best served landing MacKinnon or Jones. With plenty of assets (Hemsky.Gagner,Whitney,Khabby) selling the farm to land another top ten pick could be in play.

Tambellini has excelled at finshing very poorly. One more no more. Steve gets the golden handshake at seasons end.

And he can take that pacifist Ralph Krueger with him.

Kamus 02-15-2013 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moneypuck (Post 59773121)

And he can take that pacifist Ralph Krueger with him.

Im willing to give Krueger a chance. Not my type of coach. Im the coach if you screw up I will eat your lunch for you.....but Im hoping this move will be one of the positives for this managment. Again hope.....

Kamus 02-15-2013 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins (Post 59772901)
No matter how infuriating the management, coaches or players are, if you are a Fan of the team, you should Never want them to lose, even if you think it's the "right thing"

.

I can definetly see your point and agree with it somewhat. But, I would argue that sometimes its better to lose, because you learn more from it. In the case of this ownership, it seems like they are the really slow kid in class and have to lose a lot before they learn something. That being that the managment is completly incompetent.

Maybe I should change the title from: Do you want us to lose? to: Is it better for the Oilers Cup aspirations, if they lose?

MeestaDeteta 02-15-2013 01:49 PM

This organization rewards incompetence, so I can't see anything of consequence happening if we **** the bed again this year.

missinthejets 02-15-2013 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamus (Post 59767961)
If we are somewhat successful this year (not bottom 5 in the league), Oilers managments and ownership will take it as a positive and keep it status quo.


so basically what you're saying is you care more about getting certain people fired than whether or not their plan is actually going to work or not? Cause they were always going for the building from within and the team won't win in that situation until the players it drafted were ready to carry the team to wins... It's really a ridiculous attitude to take. Wanting a GM fired ahead of wanting the team to win... man that's just something else entirely.

Booya42 02-15-2013 01:57 PM

You stay the course. This is only year 3 of the re-build, and everyone needs to show some patience. I'd still love to see Whitney traded for Boyle in some way however, and some other pieces brought in to help with the injuries. All things considered though, we are where i expected us to be.

Too many people panicking already...:laugh: It's a 5-7 year rebuild plan so we had better learn to deal with it.

Master Lok 02-15-2013 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundwave (Post 59768929)
I would not trade any of the 5 kids unless we are getting like a Tavares, Malkin, etc. back (which ain't happening).

Let them develop and hire a competent GM. Draft Jones or MacKinnon and trade Hemsky + Gagner.

Imagine the Canucks traded the Sedins because they were frustrated at their slow curve development.

Agreed, but the problem with changing management is this.

As per usual, when an organization changes their GM, is that everything from the previous regime is up for change.

That includes coach, and players, and prospects. No one is safe as the new GM will create a new team HIS way. By changing management, it usually promotes even more change, not less.

Gord 02-15-2013 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamus (Post 59767961)
No, Im not talking about losing for the draft pick. I am talking about losing for change in managment. If we are somewhat successful this year (not bottom 5 in the league), Oilers managments and ownership will take it as a positive and keep it status quo. If we finish at the bottom again, might ownership actually realize that we have the worst managment in the nhl for the last 8 years? Or is the old boys club too tight? This was similiar to what happened before our cup run. Oilers were a mediocre to bad team and there were rumours of changing management and coaching. We went on the run and status quo prevailed. Which made us suffer through 2-3 years of a crappy team trying to achieve more then they could.

I hate even thinking of being somewhat happy that oilers are losing, because I want to see us be succesful and be a perennial cup contender. I just dont see that with our current management.....Thoughts.......

Unlike some other posters who want to blow everything up... I do beleive we have good young players to build around, just dont believe in management to fill pieces around them.

boring day at work, just thinking out loud, and probably will regret posting after getting flamed.....

NO NO NO NO NO.
If it means the Oilers are developing and winning, let tambo and lowe stay as long as they want.
I hate the thought of hoping the Oilers lose for ANY reason.

and no offense, you deserve to get flamed.

Jepprey 02-15-2013 02:08 PM

I never want to lose. Ever.


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