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-   -   Best offense= Best Defense or Best Defense= Best Offense (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1352917)

KingKopitar11* 02-17-2013 05:23 PM

Best offense= Best Defense or Best Defense= Best Offense
 
I keep watching the kings play this season we aren't really scoring as usual, and some people like to say that its because our Defense is depleted, but some people think its the Offense sucking which makes it harder on the defense. So let me throw out a scenario and see what people would think.

Lets say your team has bad defense, but your same exact offense won the cup last season playing very well.

Would it make sense that all your games would be high scoring since your D is bad, or would it make more sense for you not to be scoring cause your D is bad now. I think the more time you spend with offensive pressure the less your D will get tested.

I personally think we should be in high scoring games since our D is bad but other people say other wise.

Art of Sedinery 02-17-2013 05:27 PM

D may be bad, but the Kings offence was never really "good".

It was good enough, but physicality, defence goaltending and TIMELY scoring won them the cup. Not a strong offence.

MastuhNinks 02-17-2013 07:04 PM

I don't see why it has to be one or the other.

An example I'd use is the Marchand-Bergeron-Seguin line in Boston. One of the top corsi lines (as in they frequently outshot opponents while ont he ice) in the NHL for a number of reasons. You have one of the best defensive guys in the league in Bergeron, but you also have an offensively gifted guy like Seguin who can possess the puck which leads to the ice being tilted in the Bruins favour while they're on the ice. Seguin is no stalwart defensively, but he doesn't need to be on his line and that's not why he's put out there.

Same with the Sedins. People will be quick to point out how often they start in the offensive zone, but you can't just give any old bum an offensive start and expect the team to be so much better. The Sedins are excellent puck-possession players and AV knows that, which is why they're so effective when starting in the offensive zone.

ReginKarlssonLehner 02-17-2013 07:07 PM

Best offense is a good defense. Good defense offers your offense to have stronger possession and more scoring chances for your offense to work with.

There's a reason why Ottawa didn't panic as much with Spezza gone but went crazy when Karlsson went down as well.

Oiled up* 02-17-2013 07:08 PM

Best offence.

ReginKarlssonLehner 02-17-2013 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordan Godberle (Post 59917971)
Best offence.

Look at Colorado. I've seen teams with best defenses with no legit threat on offense and make noise in the playoffs like Nashville and Phoenix. I've never heard of a team ride their offense into the playoffs without good defense.

Flyers struggling and so is their defense yet have a great offense.

MastuhNinks 02-17-2013 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner (Post 59918213)
Look at Colorado. I've seen teams with best defenses with no legit threat on offense and make noise in the playoffs like Nashville and Phoenix. I've never heard of a team ride their offense into the playoffs without good defense.

Flyers struggling and so is their defense yet have a great offense.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3WkIQw4ovq...h-cup+(34).jpg
(17th in GA in Cup winning year)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DbAkOaLlLo...tanley-cup.jpg
(20th in GA in Cup winning year)

Porn* 02-17-2013 07:21 PM

All depends on system and roster. I personally prefer good and reliable defence

PayItForward 02-17-2013 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner (Post 59918213)
Look at Colorado. I've seen teams with best defenses with no legit threat on offense and make noise in the playoffs like Nashville and Phoenix. I've never heard of a team ride their offense into the playoffs without good defense.

Flyers struggling and so is their defense yet have a great offense.

The Flyers offense has been struggling as well. Their 24th in goals per game.

Dolph Ziggler 02-17-2013 07:29 PM

Best defense over best offense

eklunds source 02-17-2013 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MastuhNinks (Post 59918813)

...and what was their GAA from the date Dan Bylsma took over as coach?

Benny FTW 02-17-2013 08:04 PM

Defense

Sureves 02-17-2013 08:09 PM

Offense. Can't get scored on when you're in the opposing team's zone and you can score.

Can't score from your own zone no matter which way you slice it. Best you can hope for is to not get scored on: not a winning strategy IMO.

Buckets and Gloves 02-17-2013 08:21 PM

Defense wins Stanley Cups, offense wins Presidents Trophy.

eklunds source 02-17-2013 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Howie (Post 59924493)
Defense wins Stanley Cups, offense wins Presidents Trophy.

That's 1) completely overgeneric and 2) completely false. The year Boston won the cup, Vancouver had a better GAA. The year Chicago won the cup, they had a far better offense than Philadelphia. The two years before that were both Pittsburgh vs. Detroit; in 2008-2009 both teams were top-6 in offense and bottom-13 in defense. In 2007-2008, Detroit was 1st in GAA while 3rd in GF - Pittsburgh was skewed because they sucked under Therrian and were excellent under Byslma.




You can't break hockey down to "great offense" vs "great defense". It's too fluid. This isn't football where you have set defensive players and set offensive players... or baseball where you have set roles at each time. Every player has to do their job defensively and quickly transition to offense. The better your defense is, the more time you spend with the puck in the offensive zone. Good defense creates offense.

Sky04 02-17-2013 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner (Post 59918213)
Look at Colorado. I've seen teams with best defenses with no legit threat on offense and make noise in the playoffs like Nashville and Phoenix. I've never heard of a team ride their offense into the playoffs without good defense.

Flyers struggling and so is their defense yet have a great offense.

Lightning? Caps? Flyers?

ihaveyuidonttouchme 02-17-2013 08:57 PM


PhillyBluesFan 02-17-2013 10:57 PM

Defense>>>>>>Offense. It used to be the other way around in the 80s but today Defense almost always dominates offense

LiveeviL 02-18-2013 06:28 AM

It is an empirical question and will not be settled with a poll like this one. It al depends with what you have to work with.

senorchang 02-18-2013 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner (Post 59917883)
Best offense is a good defense. Good defense offers your offense to have stronger possession and more scoring chances for your offense to work with.

There's a reason why Ottawa didn't panic as much with Spezza gone but went crazy when Karlsson went down as well.

this. BREAKOUT IS EVERYTHING.

thats really the answer here. best defence vs best off and most likely the defense would win given that the offense wont be able to break in. The best defense will get goals simply by being in the offensive zone.

yakupov rnh hall ebs are useless if they cant gain the offensive zone.

darglor 02-18-2013 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner (Post 59917883)
There's a reason why Ottawa didn't panic as much with Spezza gone but went crazy when Karlsson went down as well.

That's disingenuous...

When Karlsson went down, it wasn't just "Karlsson went down", it was "There's no Spezza OR Karlsson". That's totally different than if it was "Karlsson's gone but we still have Spezza". Ottawa could still push for at least a playoff spot if they had either one of the two but now, they're screwed.

startainfection 02-18-2013 11:01 AM

it depends if transition is considered offense or defense

Trafalgar Law 02-18-2013 11:56 AM

Offense. Defensive capability seriously has to be the most overrated aspect of hockey on hfboards. You know who the best defensemen in the world are right now? Karlsson, Pietrangelo, Weber, and Chara. You know what they all have in common? They ALL have good offensive talent. You know who the best forwards in the world are right now? Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, of whom only Crosby is good defensively. Defense wins championships you say? Well guess what, the only reason these defenses win championships is because they have a good offense to supplement it. Even LA last year broke out offensively during they playoffs. That's what got them the cup, not their defense trying to win every game 1-0. Finally, if your team is so good offensively that your PMD can almost always get the puck to the forwards who can almost always keep in in the opposing zone with cycling etc, you wont even need defense. If 60% of the game is being played in the other team's zone, you're probably going to win the game.

That being said, if you consider goaltending part of defense, it's probably a different story since #1 goalie is the most important position on a team (IMO #1 goalie>#1 center>#1 dman).

KingKopitar11* 02-22-2013 04:29 AM

I think if a team is talented enough with offensive players then the team should be focused on supporting the offense. If the team has bad goaltending and average offense then I think defense wins the games for them. I really think teams that have good offense but play defensive really neutralizes the teams talent making it for a closer game then it should be. For example I think the kings can score much more if they played more of a transition game and passing cross ice instead of running the boards.


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