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Mormino 02-18-2013 02:49 AM

Balanced Scoring
 
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I was looking through some teams' stats and noticed that the Blues have TEN players with at least ten points so far; every single one of our top nine forwards (excluding Jaden Schwartz) and #27 and #22.

I believe the next best is Tampa Bay and Pittsburgh with 6 each. Is it safe to say we're the deepest team in the league...?

PocketNines 02-18-2013 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormino (Post 59944779)
I was looking through some teams' stats and noticed that the Blues have TEN players with at least ten points so far; every single one of our top nine forwards (excluding Jaden Schwartz) and #27 and #22.

I believe the next best is Tampa Bay and Pittsburgh with 6 each. Is it safe to say we're the deepest team in the league...?

Right now it's looking like the Blues have the most depth/balance among forwards. But let's wait and see a few more games. I'll feel better saying yes if the scoring stays high while the defense clamps down. If points are up but we keep allowing over 3 goals a game it just won't be as impressive. It'll suggest the forwards are cheating from their defensive responsibilities to get more numbers, and that's not all that impressive IMO. But if they clamp down and start getting back to 0, 1, 2 goals allowed in most games while continuing to score themselves, then I'll feel like the answer is yes.

Robb_K 02-18-2013 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PocketNines (Post 59944861)
Right now it's looking like the Blues have the most depth/balance among forwards. But let's wait and see a few more games. I'll feel better saying yes if the scoring stays high while the defense clamps down. If points are up but we keep allowing over 3 goals a game it just won't be as impressive. It'll suggest the forwards are cheating from their defensive responsibilities to get more numbers, and that's not all that impressive IMO. But if they clamp down and start getting back to 0, 1, 2 goals allowed in most games while continuing to score themselves, then I'll feel like the answer is yes.

This is what got us the 5 losses at home, and the difference between this and last season's defensive play and win/loss record. The Blues can, possibly score between 2.8 and 2.9 goals per game, and still win games at a pace close to last year's. But, if they continue trying to score 3.5, they'll continue to lose a lot of games they should otherwise win.

Mormino 02-18-2013 04:47 AM

It's funny, most of the Blues' offense came when they were playing their style, not when they were cheating defensively. We were held to one goal in three of those losses. The goals will come, they just need to make sure they take care of their own end first!

Here is what the goal totals look like if you break it down line by line:
57-42-74 --> 12
9-21-25 --> 15
10-20-91 --> 13

rumrokh 02-18-2013 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormino (Post 59945649)
It's funny, most of the Blues' offense came when they were playing their style, not when they were cheating defensively. We were held to one goal in three of those losses. The goals will come, they just need to make sure they take care of their own end first!

Here is what the goal totals look like if you break it down line by line:
57-42-74 --> 12
9-21-25 --> 15
10-20-91 --> 13

Considering only half of their goals have come at 5-on-5, that's not a productive way to look at it unless you're simply judging the scoring ability of those players as groups. Even then, different players excel in different situations. Schwartz, for example, doesn't get powerplay time despite being more than capable of playing the powerplay. Oshie, despite being the Blues' best forward so far, has only two even-strength points. So it's not automatic when attempting to judge that way.

If their powerplay continues to be great and they can draw penalties with regularity, their scoring pace won't take too much of a hit, even if they don't do much 5-on-5. Last year, their powerplay time and total powerplays were both average, and it's actually a bit worse now, but with deeper scoring lines, they should be able to force other teams to draw more penalties without cheating. Should. We'll see what reality shakes out, because a super hot streak and a super cold streak is a pretty difficult sample to judge.

CitizenSnips 02-18-2013 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumrokh (Post 59945943)
Considering only half of their goals have come at 5-on-5, that's not a productive way to look at it unless you're simply judging the scoring ability of those players as groups. Even then, different players excel in different situations. Schwartz, for example, doesn't get powerplay time despite being more than capable of playing the powerplay. Oshie, despite being the Blues' best forward so far, has only two even-strength points. So it's not automatic when attempting to judge that way.

If their powerplay continues to be great and they can draw penalties with regularity, their scoring pace won't take too much of a hit, even if they don't do much 5-on-5. Last year, their powerplay time and total powerplays were both average, and it's actually a bit worse now, but with deeper scoring lines, they should be able to force other teams to draw more penalties without cheating. Should. We'll see what reality shakes out, because a super hot streak and a super cold streak is a pretty difficult sample to judge.

I know what you are saying here and agree, but we are talking about being deep and not special teams specialists. There are plenty of teams in the past years that have had great powerplay or PK and not been deep enough to make the playoffs.

What we are looking at here, is how we are at 5 on 5. I love that the Blues have a powerplay that is clicking and their PK is coming along, but it doesn't show us how deep they are and how they score by committee.

rumrokh 02-18-2013 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CitizenSnips (Post 59947163)
I know what you are saying here and agree, but we are talking about being deep and not special teams specialists. There are plenty of teams in the past years that have had great powerplay or PK and not been deep enough to make the playoffs.

What we are looking at here, is how we are at 5 on 5. I love that the Blues have a powerplay that is clicking and their PK is coming along, but it doesn't show us how deep they are and how they score by committee.

Neither the original post, nor the post I quoted were about 5-on-5 play.

If we are only talking about 5-on-5, the Blues have sucked and have not shown their depth. Where they have shown their depth is their ability to throw out multiple killer powerplays. That's it, and if you're just tallying total scoring stats, it doesn't tell the story of their 5-on-5 play at all.

jimmykay 02-18-2013 11:04 AM

One reason for our guys having so many points, especially compared to other teams, is because we are currently tied for 2nd in goals/game. That's right. There are 26 other teams that haven't scored as well as us. By definition, our guys should have more points than guys on other teams.

However, your point isn't without merit. For having a team with such high scoring, you would expect us to have 1 person in the top 10 in points right? Nope. Steen is tied for 17th. How about Goals? Barely. Berglund is sitting at 10th. Now Assists? yes, Shatty is way up at #8. A testament to just how dominant that PP line has been (we're still a full 7% ahead of the #2 team).

What do you notice? I didn't mention the same player twice. Every night someone different is showing up. Except its not just 1 guy showing up. Its 4, 5, or 6 guys all showing up.

Who would have thought, after last year, that we'd be #2 in Offense and #1 in PP, yet #23 in Defense and PK?

Mormino 02-19-2013 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumrokh (Post 59945943)
Considering only half of their goals have come at 5-on-5, that's not a productive way to look at it unless you're simply judging the scoring ability of those players as groups. Even then, different players excel in different situations. Schwartz, for example, doesn't get powerplay time despite being more than capable of playing the powerplay. Oshie, despite being the Blues' best forward so far, has only two even-strength points. So it's not automatic when attempting to judge that way.

If their powerplay continues to be great and they can draw penalties with regularity, their scoring pace won't take too much of a hit, even if they don't do much 5-on-5. Last year, their powerplay time and total powerplays were both average, and it's actually a bit worse now, but with deeper scoring lines, they should be able to force other teams to draw more penalties without cheating. Should. We'll see what reality shakes out, because a super hot streak and a super cold streak is a pretty difficult sample to judge.

I guess to clarify, I was trying to show 'where' the scoring was coming from, not necessarily how or when. It's nice to know that we have three lines that have the potential to fill the net any given night.

CitizenSnips 02-19-2013 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumrokh (Post 59947803)
Neither the original post, nor the post I quoted were about 5-on-5 play.

If we are only talking about 5-on-5, the Blues have sucked and have not shown their depth. Where they have shown their depth is their ability to throw out multiple killer powerplays. That's it, and if you're just tallying total scoring stats, it doesn't tell the story of their 5-on-5 play at all.

Those posts were not but your reply was, and that is what I agree with you on.

To really look at how deep the team is, we need to look at 5 on 5 play through all the lines as well as who is playing on the PP and PK. I am not disagreeing with you at all, just pointing out what we need to look at to determine just how deep we are.

Bruv 02-19-2013 08:22 AM

Reminds me of the 2011 Bruins, top scorer only had 60ish points but they had one of the best offenses in the league.. and won the Cup

STLBLUES44 02-19-2013 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cudi (Post 60012225)
Reminds me of the 2011 Bruins, top scorer only had 60ish points but they had one of the best offenses in the league.. and won the Cup

That Marchand-Bergeron- Recchi line is literally one of my favorite lines of all time. I called it that would be the line that wins them the cup and I predicted something like bergeron having 2g 1A, Marchand 1G !a and recchi 1g 1A in that game 7. I don't totally remember what i said but I just know I was really close to being spot on.


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