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-   -   Brian Lee: Unfairly targeted as everyone's scapegoat? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1354387)

LightningStrikes 02-19-2013 11:36 AM

Brian Lee: Unfairly targeted as everyone's scapegoat?
 
The guy gets a lot of hate around here. Truth is, he had a terrible start. But he also had a nagging injury according to Boucher.

Am I the only one who thinks he hasn't been all that bad the past couple of games? IMO, he's been what you'd expect of a bottom pairing / #7 D: He made a couple of solid plays and he also had a few terrible ones.

He's nowhere near Krajicek's or Malik's level of fail, though.

Or is he?

The Wyzerhood 02-19-2013 11:43 AM

I really don't think Lee's as bad as some people are making him out to be. However, when things were going well early in the season, he was our worst player on the ice. Thus, fans remember that and put his recent performances under a microscope and any little error gets magnified. Truth be told, he's been rather solid for us lately and definitely not "our worst player on the ice".

As I said in the GDT, so long as he's not keeping Aulie out of the line-up, I'm fine with having him in our team.

Stammertime91 02-19-2013 12:13 PM

He isnt my excuse for this team failing for the last 7-8 games, but he is a part of the problem. From game one, to the last game against Florida, there has been no improvement in his play. He's a bust and a lazy, nervous and panicky player.

I dont criticise players as much as I do Lee, and I dont like to because they are human and they make mistakes but this guys attitude and grin rub me the wrong way, almost as if he thinks, "meh, what the hell, im getting paid and thats all I care about," thats the mentality I get from him. Chips it off the wall the their defender every FARKING GAME! Wraps it to another winger every FARKING GAME! Steps up when there is absolutely no reason to pinch and blows a 2 on 1 nearly every, you got it, FARKING GAME!

His awareness, gap control, positioning, poise and decision making is the worst out of any defenseman Ive ever seen on the Lightning, possibly in the league. I feel for him cause Im sure his teammates think the same, and surely the management and Boucher along with Brian himself cant POSSIBLY think he's going anywhere right? I mean as in progressing? I like to see him go somewhere, clean off that damn lineup is where I'd like to start.

He's bad, and if you think otherwise, you need your eyes checked. Malik and was a better defender than him, and that pains me to say. :help::rant:

zeykshade 02-19-2013 12:47 PM

Welp, Stammertime91 covered the daily quota of mainboard hyperbole for the Lightning Board. =p

Vasilevskiy 02-19-2013 12:56 PM

I don't think he's that bad (still worse TB d-man this year easily) but we need the new Krajicek, Malik, Clark as we have each year

stryfe604 02-19-2013 01:12 PM

Main point here is if he keeps Aulie out of the lineup, he can go **** himself. Aulie deserves to be on the team, he improved his game drastically since last season and to sit out because of Brian ****ing Lee... Sigh.

Rant finished... But I think Lee is coasting out there. I don't see the fight from last season of him trying earn his spot on the team. His play is soft since the beginning of the season, and I can remember a few times where be actually skated hard. Boucher has tried him in every situation. SH, PP, with Hedman, with Brewer, Carle, Aulie, MAB, playing with Stammer, 4 on 4's, even strength, every possible situation and he is just there. He needs to step up quick.

ThunderAlleyNomad 02-19-2013 01:23 PM

Some of the posts in this thread are textbook examples of how to overreact. Good stuff.

We must have our scapegoats though.

HoseEmDown 02-19-2013 01:47 PM

Brian Lee is not keeping Aulie out of the lineup. Boucher just wants to keep all his bottom D fresh by giving them a game here or there cause of the lack of practice time. The reason he plays Lee is because we only have 1 other RHD in Salo and Lee can be the puck mover with Aulie and stay at home with Bergeron. Lee was terrible the start of the year, took too many lazy penalties but he has been much better the last 8 or so games. He's definitely not our worst D right now, Brewer has seemed a step slow and out of position, Carle hasn't played with any intensity and is much more afraid to be hit than Lee. Lee is a bottom pair D, he does what he supposed to and makes what he should. Only concern right now is why he can't get on the scoresheet, he looked good last year with his vision in the offensive zone picking out open players. Barberio needs to stay in the A and continue improving his defensive play and Gudas has looked good especially with his improved puck skills but why bring them up now, them taking Lee's spot isn't gonna fix our entire D and goaltending issues.

Follower of Yzlam 02-19-2013 02:26 PM

I wish a #6 Dman was the reason we're losing. When we were winning, he was our worst player and he was fun to **** on. Now we're losing and the problems are far deeper than our #6.

Ideally we'd have a solid #6, which Lee may end up developing into or performing as, but seriously, he plays like 13 minutes a night against soft competition. He ****s up, yeah, but I'm more concerned with the Dman that logs 22 minutes against good competition ******** the bed.

CC321 02-19-2013 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pronounced Anders (Post 60025221)
I wish a #6 Dman was the reason we're losing. When we were winning, he was our worst player and he was fun to **** on. Now we're losing and the problems are far deeper than our #6.

Ideally we'd have a solid #6, which Lee may end up developing into or performing as, but seriously, he plays like 13 minutes a night against soft competition. He ****s up, yeah, but I'm more concerned with the Dman that logs 22 minutes against good competition ******** the bed.

All the more reason to have Gudas in the #4 spot, pushing Brewer to the 3rd pair with the easier minutes. The problem is Brewer makes almost 4mil., but lets face reality, he needs the easier minutes. His skating has slowed, his stick has slowed, and his reaction time has slowed. Both Brewer and Malone are trade bait in my book for similar reasons. Good guys, but not in the team's best interest to keep them. If we wait too long, they will become untradable due to their contracts and weakening skills.

jg39 02-19-2013 03:32 PM

As someone who gave Lee a lot of flak at the beginning of the year, I will say he has improved from the start of the season. For me, his mistakes at the start of the year were not the mistakes an NHL defenseman should be making, IMO. Pinches at the wrong time, getting beat easily, poor puck movement, not looking behind him when attackers go to the net, etc. Now, I feel he is settling in and starting to get better. His positioning has improved, and his man marking is much better. Puck possession could get better, but it's not a nightmare.

He's a #6 defenseman, so we shouldn't be expecting the world from him. The past few games, Brewer's, and to a lesser extent Carle's, mistakes have frustrated me a lot: lazy/slow skating, not seeing the wide open men directly behind them in the slot, etc. Lee has improved, but more importantly, you see his effort level out there. He's trying. Not to say that Brewer/Carle aren't...

HoseEmDown 02-19-2013 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC321 (Post 60027647)
All the more reason to have Gudas in the #4 spot, pushing Brewer to the 3rd pair with the easier minutes. The problem is Brewer makes almost 4mil., but lets face reality, he needs the easier minutes. His skating has slowed, his stick has slowed, and his reaction time has slowed. Both Brewer and Malone are trade bait in my book for similar reasons. Good guys, but not in the team's best interest to keep them. If we wait too long, they will become untradable due to their contracts and weakening skills.

Gudas hasn't played a minute a single minute in the NHL and you already want him playing top 4 minutes? Why don't we let him keep developing and maybe bring him if we need to later in the year with injuries. We should be giving Aulie more of Brewers minutes.

CC321 02-19-2013 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoseEmDown (Post 60030005)
Gudas hasn't played a minute a single minute in the NHL and you already want him playing top 4 minutes? Why don't we let him keep developing and maybe bring him if we need to later in the year with injuries. We should be giving Aulie more of Brewers minutes.

Gudas isn't the deer in the headlights type. I have full confidence in him. Aulie is a solid 3rd pair guy, but I don't see the upside of Gudas or Korobov in him. Giving Aulie some of Brewer's minutes, instead of Gudas, won't help us much now or down the road. Just my opinion of course.

RussianGuyovich 02-19-2013 04:27 PM

lee is my scapegoat because it is much easier to type lee than taormina and thats a fact jack.

The Wyzerhood 02-19-2013 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoseEmDown (Post 60023347)
Brian Lee is not keeping Aulie out of the lineup. Boucher just wants to keep all his bottom D fresh by giving them a game here or there cause of the lack of practice time. The reason he plays Lee is because we only have 1 other RHD in Salo and Lee can be the puck mover with Aulie and stay at home with Bergeron. Lee was terrible the start of the year, took too many lazy penalties but he has been much better the last 8 or so games. He's definitely not our worst D right now, Brewer has seemed a step slow and out of position, Carle hasn't played with any intensity and is much more afraid to be hit than Lee. Lee is a bottom pair D, he does what he supposed to and makes what he should. Only concern right now is why he can't get on the scoresheet, he looked good last year with his vision in the offensive zone picking out open players. Barberio needs to stay in the A and continue improving his defensive play and Gudas has looked good especially with his improved puck skills but why bring them up now, them taking Lee's spot isn't gonna fix our entire D and goaltending issues.

To me, that is keeping Aulie out of the line-up. Resting your 6th defenseman every third game is sort of pointless unless they aren't performing well. They're big boys used to the grind of a long schedule, so it's like they're in dire need of a break so often. The rotation should be between Lee, Mikkelson and MAB with Aulie a consistent fixture as the 5th dman. As you aptly point out though, we're short on RHD so Lee becomes a slight necessity.

BoltSTH 02-19-2013 04:49 PM

Look at his career stats

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8471683

Not a shutdown D man, non existent offence, and flustered when there is any serious fore checking, a bad recipe for a playoff contender.

Ottawa gave up on him quite quickly after picking him 9th overall, that should have been a red flag.

Time for SFY to do his magic and get a decent pick for him.

Lecavilier_4 02-19-2013 04:52 PM

We can fix this thread title with only 3 character changes:

Brian Lee: Unfairly targeted as everyone's scapegoat?!

Stammertime91 02-19-2013 05:39 PM

I agree with a few assessments and maybe Im too harsh but I dont think I am...its been over a quarter of this shortened season and by now he shouldnt be making that many mistakes, this isnt his 2nd season, he should have the capability to adapt to the speed, system, teammates, but he isnt, and wont most likely. The quicker he's gone, the better. In all seriousness. He's not improving and its not like he's getting bad breaks, he's creating chances for the other team, a huge liability and even with the speed Brewer lacks, or Ohlund on a wheelchair with blades moving 3mph, I'd take both over Lee. Sick of seeing this guy just act like its a public skate and then give everyone that "wtf? how'd that go in" look when he's out there. Its too much.

Im not blaming our struggles on him, but surely, and I mean, SURELY, you cannot tell me he is making things better.

Lets see how he does tonight. Man, I hope he plays like Orr, but I doubt it, I want him to succeed but lets face it, as the poster above said, if Ottawa gave up on him, and he's playing the same way that he did there, he's no more than a #6, and shouldnt even be in the NHL. This is a business, not a dating service to share feelings with Brian Lee, time to shake him up by sending him down and bringing in Barb/Gudas or play Mikelsson who is a very good simplistic skater and solid #6. Why we all of a sudden have thrown him to the wolves, I have no idea. Guy bailed us out last year, tons of times.

Now dont get me wrong, he's not a Boyle or Sydor(in his prime) but he's a hell of a lot better than the guy whose name starts with B and ends with rian Lee.

HoseEmDown 02-19-2013 05:54 PM

Brian Lee will surely get claimed if put on waivers, why would we want to lose an asset for nothing? Barberio and Gudas were in camp obviously Boucher didn't see enough in them yet so what makes you think his opinions changed in a month? Lee has that WTF look on his face cause he just watched Carle halfass hustle down the ice, or a 4th liner blows a slapper by Garons glove or abuses Linbacks five hole.

Stammertime91 02-19-2013 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoseEmDown (Post 60036475)
Brian Lee will surely get claimed if put on waivers, why would we want to lose an asset for nothing? Barberio and Gudas were in camp obviously Boucher didn't see enough in them yet so what makes you think his opinions changed in a month? Lee has that WTF look on his face cause he just watched Carle halfass hustle down the ice, or a 4th liner blows a slapper by Garons glove or abuses Linbacks five hole.

I really dont care. I just want him not on the ice, scratch him, bench him or waive him. Doesnt make a difference to me. If not those two, we have Mikelsson? Or is he not as good as Lee?

Carle hasnt played well either but nobody has during that losing streak. Who has played like garbage ALL season so far? Lee. Not one significant improvement in his game. C'mon, dont give me that Garon and Carle excuse though, look at all the times he is on the ice. Just watch him. We could've won against NY the first time but NO! Lee didnt want that...

B2k3 02-19-2013 06:00 PM

All my complaints about his game have been made in this thread, so I'll just post my favorite little stat. Again, I don't believe that +/- is the end all be all for Defensive stats, but this is a little interesting...

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...lusMinus&pg=24

HoseEmDown 02-19-2013 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stammertime91 (Post 60036749)
I really dont care. I just want him not on the ice, scratch him, bench him or waive him. Doesnt make a difference to me. If not those two, we have Mikelsson? Or is he not as good as Lee?

Carle hasnt played well either but nobody has during that losing streak. Who has played like garbage ALL season so far? Lee. Not one significant improvement in his game. C'mon, dont give me that Garon and Carle excuse though, look at all the times he is on the ice. Just watch him. We could've won against NY the first time but NO! Lee didnt want that...

The Islander game was like the 3rd game of the season, rewatch that and watch a recent game and tell me how he hasn't improved? I didn't realize that our organization has been blessed with so many All Star defenseman that we can bash every average one. He's not Shea Weber he's a #6 D, his play is that of a bottom pairing player.
I looked at that plus minus chart and Doughty is the worst in the league, I'm sure Kings fans aren't asking for him to be waived.

Stammertime91 02-19-2013 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoseEmDown (Post 60039009)
The Islander game was like the 3rd game of the season, rewatch that and watch a recent game and tell me how he hasn't improved? I didn't realize that our organization has been blessed with so many All Star defenseman that we can bash every average one. He's not Shea Weber he's a #6 D, his play is that of a bottom pairing player.
I looked at that plus minus chart and Doughty is the worst in the league, I'm sure Kings fans aren't asking for him to be waived.

No. The rags first game, he blew that 3rd goal. All him.

Stop making excuses and taking up for him;):p:

I respect your point of view but there are better options for a #6, I didnt think Gilroy was anything special but he's a lot better than what Lee is. Obviously MAB isnt an improvement defensively but at this point, I'd like to see Mishkin out there instead of Lee one more shift. Im not comparing him to Doughty or Weber, and I know we dont have too many good dmen throughout the years so why you brought it up, Im not sure. Thing is, and the point Im trying to make is you have a player in Mikelsson that should be playing, or ANYBODY, FFS put SOMEBODY back there besides Lee.

I really want to be corrected and him come out tonight guns blazing and play shutdown d without a blemish. But thats not the case with every game so far this season. Looking at this season in a whole so far, you cannot tell me he has improved, you cannot. I am so critical on him and I watch his every shift, he's a lazy player, just watch.

Again, for the sake of us and the team, I hope he comes out of the gate a different player, cause at the end of last season he looked like a different player in a TB uniform, but now we got the same old Lee Ottawa gave us.

zeykshade 02-19-2013 07:39 PM

No way Gilroy plays the stay at home role with MAB in the same bottom pairing. Gilroy was as tough as rice paper and had zero ability to shoot a puck.

Basically, Lee is more versatile than Gilroy was/is. Is he brilliant, far from it. Does this organization have a better option? I tend to think that Gudas is the best all around option (not currently on the roster) that could play stay at home with a PMD and be a PMD if put on a line with a stay at home D. He's also a RHD.

I'm not a Yzerman and Boucher though. I don't know why Gudas is in the AHL still, but he's blossoming and developing still getting top pairing minutes with Korobov rather than meager bottom pairing minutes here in the NHL.

Lee isn't the problem.

HoseEmDown 02-19-2013 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stammertime91 (Post 60040287)
No. The rags first game, he blew that 3rd goal. All him.

Stop making excuses and taking up for him;):p:

I respect your point of view but there are better options for a #6, I didnt think Gilroy was anything special but he's a lot better than what Lee is. Obviously MAB isnt an improvement defensively but at this point, I'd like to see Mishkin out there instead of Lee one more shift. Im not comparing him to Doughty or Weber, and I know we dont have too many good dmen throughout the years so why you brought it up, Im not sure. Thing is, and the point Im trying to make is you have a player in Mikelsson that should be playing, or ANYBODY, FFS put SOMEBODY back there besides Lee.

I really want to be corrected and him come out tonight guns blazing and play shutdown d without a blemish. But thats not the case with every game so far this season. Looking at this season in a whole so far, you cannot tell me he has improved, you cannot. I am so critical on him and I watch his every shift, he's a lazy player, just watch.

Again, for the sake of us and the team, I hope he comes out of the gate a different player, cause at the end of last season he looked like a different player in a TB uniform, but now we got the same old Lee Ottawa gave us.

So Hedman was responsible for the 2nd goal in the Rangers game but no one blames him for the loss.
I only defend him cause he isn't our worst D right now. The reason I mentioned the fact we had terrible history with D is cause if we were known for developing great D. If we were I could say we've done a bad job helping him grow or that we have a great young D coming up but we don't know for sure.
I wouldn't say he's lazy, he gives a good effort every shift, he just needs to be better at clearing the crease.


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