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-   -   Why does SJ have the worst prospect pool? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1354431)

Canadian Gold X3 02-19-2013 11:21 AM

Why does SJ have the worst prospect pool?
 
SJ probably has the worst prospect pool in the NHL, what is the reasoning behind this?

Fusbolito 02-19-2013 11:25 AM

Because for four of the last five years, they've led their division, had over 100 points, and had low draft picks, combined with a relatively stable nucleus of players and their good young prospects graduating to the team, I would surmise.

Kiss My Rask 02-19-2013 11:26 AM

Well it didn't help when they traded Charlie Coyle, but most likely poor drafting or bad luck with prospects panning out. Sharks fans would know best

SLAPSHOT723 02-19-2013 11:30 AM

They've traded a bunch of 1st round picks for NHL players.

hototogisu 02-19-2013 11:31 AM

Keep in mind that a bunch of players in their current core (Pavelski, Clowe, Demers, Vlasic, Murray) were unheralded or late round picks as well. So while they may not have the glitziest prospect pool in terms of big names, they continue to get great value from the players that they do draft.

I not-so-boldly predict that in a couple of years Konrad Abeltshauser will be the next "how did they get him so late in the draft" player on their team.

Tkachuk4MVP 02-19-2013 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fusbolito (Post 60019043)
Because for four of the last five years, they've led their division, had over 100 points, and had low draft picks, combined with a relatively stable nucleus of players and their good young prospects graduating to the team, I would surmise.



This is definitely part of it. Because the Sharks have been in win-now mode for quite a while, they've shipped out a bunch of 1st and 2nd round picks as well as prospects for roster players in recent years. From 2008-2011 they only had one first rounder (Coyle who was traded) and last year they took Hertl, who I've heard nothing but good things about so far. They have a fairly decent group of D and goaltending prospects, but Pavelski and Clowe aside they flat out stink when it comes to drafting forwards, first round and otherwise.

Quarter 02-19-2013 11:40 AM

Poor scouting/player development.

thomast 02-19-2013 11:52 AM

Tomas Hertl is an beast and very underrated prospect. Can't really understand why Faksa went over Hertl at the draft. Hertl has everything and he reminds me from Jagr alot.

smitty10 02-19-2013 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hototogisu (Post 60019267)
Keep in mind that a bunch of players in their current core (Pavelski, Clowe, Demers, Vlasic, Murray) were unheralded or late round picks as well. So while they may not have the glitziest prospect pool in terms of big names, they continue to get great value from the players that they do draft.

I not-so-boldly predict that in a couple of years Konrad Abeltshauser will be the next "how did they get him so late in the draft" player on their team.

Agreed. Abeltshauser will be a very good defenseman one day.

Don't forget that they also have Tomas Hertl, who is arguably one of the most NHL ready prospects out there. He has extremely high end skill for a big player and has been putting on a clinic in the Czech league the last 2 seasons. I mean, he put up 12 goals and 13 assists last year in 38 games, while Jaskin (who is absolutely dominating the Q) only had a goal and an assist in 30 games. If Jaskin can dominate junior players the way he is, I'd love to see what Hertl could do.

smitty10 02-19-2013 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomast (Post 60020321)
Tomas Hertl is an beast and very underrated prospect. Can't really understand why Faksa went over Hertl at the draft. Hertl has everything and he reminds me from Jagr alot.

Faksa plays in NA and is a safe pick because of the type of game he plays and his size. Hertl is top 6 or bust.

I am the Liquor 02-19-2013 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 (Post 60019265)
They've traded a bunch of 1st round picks for NHL players.

This and trading Charlie Coyle, as well as second round picks.

SpinTheBlackCircle 02-19-2013 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty10 (Post 60020825)
Faksa plays in NA and is a safe pick because of the type of game he plays and his size. Hertl is top 6 or bust.

Hertl is VERY good defensively, you are mistaken.

Nzap 02-19-2013 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quarter (Post 60019753)
Poor scouting/player development.

They've drafted well so I can't see how that would be an issue.
They traded two of their best fw prospects in Coyle and Sgarbossa (who they signed after the draft so didn't even use resources for it) for NHL-proven players.
Contenders usually do that for a cup runs.

Juzmo 02-19-2013 02:09 PM

Only one Finn.

Flames Fanatic 02-19-2013 02:19 PM

Yeah just lots of trades so they rely heavily upon long shot prospects from the later rounds I suppose.

Senor Catface 02-19-2013 02:26 PM

Oh, just the "price" of having a constantly competitive team.

TheNudge 02-19-2013 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fusbolito (Post 60019043)
Because for four of the last five years, they've led their division, had over 100 points, and had low draft picks, combined with a relatively stable nucleus of players and their good young prospects graduating to the team, I would surmise.

That's no excuse. Look at Detroit prospect pool. They have a very good looking pool and they finish top 4 in the western over the pas 20 years. The only reason behhind it is that their Scout are horrible.

TheJuxtaposer 02-19-2013 02:31 PM

We didn't have a first rounder in 2008, didn't have a first or second rounder in 2009, traded away our first rounder in 2010 and didn't have a second (IIRC), and traded our first in 2011. That's why.

We keep churning out low-end guys, drafting in th later rounds and free agents aren't a problem, it's getting high-end guys because we don't have firsts or seconds a lot of years. But when we do have firsts, we make them count. Couture was picked higher than he was supposed to be. So was Coyle (nobody knew who he was), and so was Hertl, but all three are on the right track.

TheNudge 02-19-2013 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by President Van Buren (Post 60028461)
Oh, just the "price" of having a constantly competitive team.

That's not a excuse, look at Detroit. They've been very competitve the last 20 years and counting. What do they do each year ? They found a diamond in a rough. The problem is the scout and the gm since it's is job to improve is team from the ground up.

TheNudge 02-19-2013 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hototogisu (Post 60019267)
Keep in mind that a bunch of players in their current core (Pavelski, Clowe, Demers, Vlasic, Murray) were unheralded or late round picks as well. So while they may not have the glitziest prospect pool in terms of big names, they continue to get great value from the players that they do draft.

I not-so-boldly predict that in a couple of years Konrad Abeltshauser will be the next "how did they get him so late in the draft" player on their team.



Your right about getting great pick in the late round since they got Sean Kuraly in the 5th round. He should be something special. The big problem is they can't turn their 1st or 2nd round pick into something really good until now(Hertl). But they still need to improve alot to be competitve(prospect wise) Too many miss and not enough home runs.

West Coast Bias* 02-19-2013 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNudge (Post 60028631)
The only reason behhind it is that their Scout are horrible.

Or we graduated the last group of high-end prospects to the NHL, and then began trading picks and prospects for roster players in the hopes of winning now.

Quote:

That's not a excuse, look at Detroit. They've been very competitve the last 20 years and counting. What do they do each year ? They found a diamond in a rough. The problem is the scout and the gm since it's is job to improve is team from the ground up.
Do you know what you're talking about here or are you guessing?

Douglas Murray was an 8th rounder, Ryane Clowe was a 6th rounder, Joe Pavelski, Jason Demers and Justin Braun were 7th rounders, and Christian Ehrhoff was a 4th rounder. Don't embarrass yourself by being completely and totally wrong.

Jag68Sid87 02-19-2013 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomast (Post 60020321)
Tomas Hertl is an beast and very underrated prospect. Can't really understand why Faksa went over Hertl at the draft. Hertl has everything and he reminds me from Jagr alot.

This is a rather unfair comparison.

gsharpe 02-19-2013 02:49 PM

I dont put too much into these "prospect pool" rankings. Its more about development and drafting players that you feel you can develop.

Feels like the Canucks have had the worst prospect pool in the league for the past decade and yet we have developed Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, Raymond, Hansen, Edler and Bieksa which is a top 6 and and a top pairing.

KINGS17 02-19-2013 02:57 PM

When a team is that good in the regular season for that long the GM has to find some gems in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

How many 1st round picks did the Sharks trade away in recent years?

TheJuxtaposer 02-19-2013 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNudge (Post 60028761)
That's not a excuse, look at Detroit. They've been very competitve the last 20 years and counting. What do they do each year ? They found a diamond in a rough. The problem is the scout and the gm since it's is job to improve is team from the ground up.

Detroit has a nice prospect pool right now, but who have they graduated in recent years? The last top-6 player they graduated was Franzen in 2004? Filppula/Hudler in 2002? No one in 2001, Filppula/Flash/Hudler in 2002. They got Howard and Quincey in 2003, Franzen in 2004 (overage), Kindl (not exactly a great first round pick), Helm, and Abdelkader in 2005, Emerton in 2006, Brendan Smith in 2007, who hasn't even established himself in the NHL, Nyquist in 2008 (not an established regular), and Tatar in 2009 (not an NHL regular, and Ferraro seems like a bust at 32). That's almost a decade of not so great drafting.

In that time, the Sharks have turned out Christian Ehrhoff (top-4 defenseman, arguably top-2), Ryane Clowe (top-6 powerforward), Joe Pavelski (1st liner), Matt Carle (top-4 defenseman, arguably top-2), Marc-Edouard Vlasic (top-2 defenseman), Jamie McGinn (top-6 winger), Justin Braun (fringe top-4 defenseman), Jason Demers (fringe top-4 defenseman, still has potential), Tommy Wingels (2nd/3rd line tweener, still has potential).

So it's not like you've blown us out of the water in terms of players drafted and playing in the NHL right now. Yes, you guys have had a couple of great drafts recently, but that's more a testament to Detroit's scouts, rather than a detriment to SJ's scouts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNudge (Post 60028965)
Your right about getting great pick in the late round since they got Sean Kuraly in the 5th round. He should be something special. The big problem is they can't turn their 1st or 2nd round pick into something really good until now(Hertl). But they still need to improve alot to be competitve(prospect wise) Too many miss and not enough home runs.

That's because in the past 4 drafts, we've had 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders, and we traded Coyle away. Hello.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 (Post 60029291)
This is a rather unfair comparison.

His strength along the boards and bullish nature driving the net is vaguely reminiscent, but you're right, it's quite unfair.


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