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-   -   What would a Québec roster look like? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1355257)

boris4c 02-20-2013 01:31 AM
What would a Québec roster look like?
 
I don't know if there ever was such a thread on these boards, and I am guessing there was, but not in recent times so I was wondering what Québec's roster would look like if it was to compete in Sochi.

I have my own idea of the roster, what are your thoughts? Also, where would you rank this team on a world ranking?

The forwards are decent, and among the players who don't make my final cut are David Perron, Pierre-Marc Bouchard and Jonathan Huberdeau. The defense is lacking depth, but that is somewhat compensated by solid goaltending.

Tanguay – Lecavalier – St-Louis
Gagné – Ribeiro – Bričre
Dupuis – Bergeron – Pominville
Burrows – Desharnais – Parenteau

Vlasic – Letang
Beauchemin – Robidas
Bergeron – Gervais

Luongo
Fleury
Crawford

Cory Trevor 02-20-2013 02:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boris4c (Post 60084279)
I don't know if there ever was such a thread on these boards, and I am guessing there was, but not in recent times so I was wondering what Québec's roster would look like if it was to compete in Sochi.

I have my own idea of the roster, what are your thoughts? Also, where would you rank this team on a world ranking?

The forwards are decent, and among the players who don't make my final cut are David Perron, Pierre-Marc Bouchard and Jonathan Huberdeau. The defense is lacking depth, but that is somewhat compensated by solid goaltending.

Tanguay – Lecavalier – St-Louis
Gagné – Ribeiro – Bričre
Dupuis – Bergeron – Pominville
Burrows – Desharnais – Parenteau

Vlasic – Letang
Beauchemin – Robidas
Bergeron – Gervais

Luongo
Fleury
Crawford
That's a damn solid team.

Xokkeu 02-20-2013 02:35 AM
Jason Pominville plays for the United States. I know he was born in Quebec, but since you didn't include Stastny, I'm not completely sure why Pominville is included.

Either way, I'd put that Quebec roster just a touch below what I'd consider the favorites for Gold in Sochi, basically the US, Sweden, Canada and Russia. I'd group it with Finland, Slovakia and the Czechs. The talent to beat any team on a given night but not quite enough to be considered a heavy favorite.

Cory Trevor 02-20-2013 02:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu (Post 60085203)
Jason Pominville plays for the United States. I know he was born in Quebec, but since you didn't include Stastny, I'm not completely sure why Pominville is included.

Either way, I'd put that Quebec roster just a touch below what I'd consider the favorites for Gold in Sochi, basically the US, Sweden, Canada and Russia. I'd group it with Finland, Slovakia and the Czechs. The talent to beat any team on a given night but not quite enough to be considered a heavy favorite.
I wouldn't. The Blue Line is a bit thin on that team. I'd see most other national teams top forward cores exposing faults.

Xokkeu 02-20-2013 03:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Trevor (Post 60085269)
I wouldn't. The Blue Line is a bit thin on that team. I'd see most other national teams top forward cores exposing faults.
Here's the Czech blueline from Vancouver


Miroslav Blaťák
Jan Hejda
Tomáš Kaberle
Filip Kuba
Pavel Kubina
Zbyněk Michálek
Roman Polák
Marek Židlický



Russia

Sergei Gonchar
Denis Grebeshkov
Dmitri Kalinin
Konstantin Korneyev
Andrei Markov
Ilya Nikulin
Fedor Tyutin
Anton Volchenkov


Slovakia

Ivan Baranka
Zdeno Chára – C
Milan Jurcina
Andrej Meszároš
Andrej Sekera
Martin Štrbák
Ľubomír Višňovský


Finland

Lasse Kukkonen
Sami Lepistö
Toni Lydman
Janne Niskala
Joni Pitkänen
Sami Salo
Kimmo Timonen




The Quebec blueline isn't great, but it'd hold its own with those teams.

Letang is very good, Vlasic and Robidas are very underrated, although Robidas is showing his age a bit.

The 3rd pairing is pretty bad, but is it worse than Sami Lepisto, Milan Jurcina, Denis Grebeshkov or Miroslav Blatak?

Cory Trevor 02-20-2013 04:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu (Post 60085823)
Here's the Czech blueline from Vancouver


Miroslav Blaťák
Jan Hejda
Tomáš Kaberle
Filip Kuba
Pavel Kubina
Zbyněk Michálek
Roman Polák
Marek Židlický



Russia

Sergei Gonchar
Denis Grebeshkov
Dmitri Kalinin
Konstantin Korneyev
Andrei Markov
Ilya Nikulin
Fedor Tyutin
Anton Volchenkov


Slovakia

Ivan Baranka
Zdeno Chára – C
Milan Jurcina
Andrej Meszároš
Andrej Sekera
Martin Štrbák
Ľubomír Višňovský


Finland

Lasse Kukkonen
Sami Lepistö
Toni Lydman
Janne Niskala
Joni Pitkänen
Sami Salo
Kimmo Timonen




The Quebec blueline isn't great, but it'd hold its own with those teams.

Letang is very good, Vlasic and Robidas are very underrated, although Robidas is showing his age a bit.

The 3rd pairing is pretty bad, but is it worse than Sami Lepisto, Milan Jurcina, Denis Grebeshkov or Miroslav Blatak?
Vlasic is underrated but Robidas isn't. He really hasn't looked that good as of recent. I still would take the Czechs, Slovaks, Russian and Finns over the Quebecois. My guess is they would finish at least 6th or lower 90 percent of the time. All of those D core are better. Slovakia is the obvious one but coupled with the fact that I would take Halak, Rinne, Nabokov, and Vokoun over Luongo in a short tournament. European players tend to get up for international duty more than anything.

JackSlater 02-20-2013 07:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu (Post 60085203)
Jason Pominville plays for the United States. I know he was born in Quebec, but since you didn't include Stastny, I'm not completely sure why Pominville is included.
Pominville wasn't just born in Quebec, he was raised and trained in hockey there. He's a Canadian hockey player from Quebec, and his mother's nationality (along with being a late bloomer) is what enabled him to play for USA. Stastny was born in Quebec, but that's not where he was trained in hockey. He's an American hockey player.

I like the roster in the OP, though I think Perron has to make it over Gagne or Tanguay, and Talbot could get consideration as well. Jason Demers might be better than Bergeron in defence, as Quebec could use more defensive ability on the back end. The forward group is quite good with very good balance and lots of responsible forwards. The defence is suspect, but at least comparable with most of the European teams. Goaltending is pretty good. Quebec wouldn't be a favourite, but you wouldn't be thrilled to play them either.

CoolForumNamePending 02-20-2013 07:46 AM
Some severely overrate how much 'star' talent a team needs to be a contender and even win. The roster in the OP is good enough to win a tournament. Quebec probably wouldn't be anyone's first pick for 'glory' but it would hardly be shocking if they did win.

As has been pointed out before... Almost half the Czech roster that won in '98 wasn't even playing in the NHL at the time. Since '98 Finland has probably entered every Olympic tournament as the 6th best team on paper but have more often than not (and more often than any other country) left with a medal.

Xokkeu 02-20-2013 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater (Post 60087449)
Pominville wasn't just born in Quebec, he was raised and trained in hockey there. He's a Canadian hockey player from Quebec, and his mother's nationality (along with being a late bloomer) is what enabled him to play for USA. Stastny was born in Quebec, but that's not where he was trained in hockey. He's an American hockey player.

I like the roster in the OP, though I think Perron has to make it over Gagne or Tanguay, and Talbot could get consideration as well. Jason Demers might be better than Bergeron in defence, as Quebec could use more defensive ability on the back end. The forward group is quite good with very good balance and lots of responsible forwards. The defence is suspect, but at least comparable with most of the European teams. Goaltending is pretty good. Quebec wouldn't be a favourite, but you wouldn't be thrilled to play them either.
I'm aware of Pominville's background and I'm also aware that he has lived in the US for the past decade. The OP can feel free to include him on the team as he'd be eligible obviously.

It would be interesting to see how many players would just chose to play for Canada and how many would chose Quebec. Kind of like England and Wales in soccer.

CoolForumNamePending 02-20-2013 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu (Post 60091015)
I'm aware of Pominville's background and I'm also aware that he has lived in the US for the past decade. The OP can feel free to include him on the team as he'd be eligible obviously.

It would be interesting to see how many players would just chose to play for Canada and how many would chose Quebec. Kind of like England and Wales in soccer.
I guess the thinking is with a hypothetical Quebec team having less depth than both the US or the rest of Canada the chances are good that Pominville would/could have been 'cap tied' by Quebec long before he first played for the US @ the age of 25.

JackSlater 02-20-2013 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu (Post 60091015)
I'm aware of Pominville's background and I'm also aware that he has lived in the US for the past decade. The OP can feel free to include him on the team as he'd be eligible obviously.
Pominville lived in the USA because his job was there. It has no bearing on him being an American hockey player, unless you would want to include guys like Mario Lemieux and Bobby Orr as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu (Post 60091015)
It would be interesting to see how many players would just chose to play for Canada and how many would chose Quebec. Kind of like England and Wales in soccer.
That would be interesting, and the media coverage would be insane. I think at least Brodeur has said that he wouldn't play for a Quebec team.

Xokkeu 02-20-2013 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolForumNamePending (Post 60091929)
I guess the thinking is with a hypothetical Quebec team having less depth than both the US or the rest of Canada the chances are good that Pominville would/could have been 'cap tied' by Quebec long before he first played for the US @ the age of 25.
Certainly plausible.

Xokkeu 02-20-2013 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater (Post 60092119)
Pominville lived in the USA because his job was there. It has no bearing on him being an American hockey player, unless you would want to include guys like Mario Lemieux and Bobby Orr as well.



That would be interesting, and the media coverage would be insane. I think at least Brodeur has said that he wouldn't play for a Quebec team.
Sure, except none of those guys chose to play for the US team. Pominville would certainly be free to make his offseason home in Quebec. He doesn't.

The point is that he is a Canadian-American hockey player. He had a choice, was in his right to make it and made it. Who knows what he'd do if there was a Quebec team.

Mehar 02-20-2013 10:36 AM
There was a similar thread about this several months back. It is irrelevant, but i would be more interested in what a Czechoslovakian roster would look like. Czechoslovakia had a good chance to win in 2002, 2006 and 2010 if the country had not broken up. Slovakia gave Canada a good game in the SF in 2010. Maybe if Finland was still part of the Sweden like they were for hundreds of years before 1812, they would truly be the global power of hockey (LOL). It is opening a can of worms, but Czechoslovakia would have won Olympic Gold a couple of more times after 1998, and would truly be a global hockey power. Quebec will not seperate. There best chance to get out of Canada was 1995. People in Quebec are tired of the referendum talk and just want to move on and focus on other things (i.e. economy, etc.), having family living in Quebec who are tired of this question.

Xokkeu 02-20-2013 10:42 AM
Czechoslovakia would be a true power with the big four unlike now where they are essentially just two spoiler teams.

JackSlater 02-20-2013 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu (Post 60093677)
Sure, except none of those guys chose to play for the US team. Pominville would certainly be free to make his offseason home in Quebec. He doesn't.
Where do you rank Bryan Trottier among American hockey greats? Just ahead of Tony Esposito? As far as Pominville's home, that is also irrelevent. He may feel like an American citizen, and that is perfectly reasonable at this point. He's a Canadian, and more specifically a Quebec, hockey product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu (Post 60093677)
The point is that he is a Canadian-American hockey player. He had a choice, was in his right to make it and made it. Who knows what he'd do if there was a Quebec team.
We don't know what his choice was, as it's unlikely that Canada had ever offered him a guaranteed opportunity internationally. I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have chosen to play for Canada, or Quebec, if their world junior teams had offered him a spot for instance (he was cut from the Canadian world junior team in the early 2000s). That would have locked him up for Canada or Quebec, without changing anything about him as a hockey player. It seems insane to me that Pominville magically becomes an American player because USA offered him a spot at the 2008 World Championship, due to his mother's citizenship.

jekoh 02-20-2013 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater (Post 60095851)
Where do you rank Bryan Trottier among American hockey greats? Just ahead of Tony Esposito?
Both are behind Brett Hull anyway.

Hull and Pominville never played for Canada, Trottier and Esposito did. Apples and oranges.

JackSlater 02-20-2013 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jekoh (Post 60097029)
Hull and Pominville never played for Canada, Trottier and Esposito did. Apples and oranges.
Not really. All four of them tried out for Canada, and only two were successful. All four of them then played for USA. If Hull and Pominville had been better players as teenagers they would not be Americans anymore? Ridiculous.

In any event, this is veering far enough from the actual topic so I will cease. To me Pominville is just as legitimate to add to this roster as anyone raised in Quebec.

Rabid Ranger 02-20-2013 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater (Post 60095851)
Where do you rank Bryan Trottier among American hockey greats? Just ahead of Tony Esposito? As far as Pominville's home, that is also irrelevent. He may feel like an American citizen, and that is perfectly reasonable at this point. He's a Canadian, and more specifically a Quebec, hockey product.



We don't know what his choice was, as it's unlikely that Canada had ever offered him a guaranteed opportunity internationally. I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have chosen to play for Canada, or Quebec, if their world junior teams had offered him a spot for instance (he was cut from the Canadian world junior team in the early 2000s). That would have locked him up for Canada or Quebec, without changing anything about him as a hockey player. It seems insane to me that Pominville magically becomes an American player because USA offered him a spot at the 2008 World Championship, due to his mother's citizenship.
I'm not sure why you're riding this issue so hard. According to the IIHF Pominville is an American hockey player since he AGREED to to play for the U.S. in 2008 at the Worlds.

CoolForumNamePending 02-20-2013 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu (Post 60093983)
Czechoslovakia would be a true power with the big four unlike now where they are essentially just two spoiler teams.
I would say the Czech Rep are more than just a 'spoiler' team. I don't know what they will look like a decade from now but as it currently stands they still have a pretty impressive pool of players, especially forwards, to pick from.

But this thread is probably already stumbling far enough off topic so I digress.

jekoh 02-20-2013 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater (Post 60098793)
Not really. All four of them tried out for Canada, and only two were successful. All four of them then played for USA.
And? All four of them played for the USA, two of them did not play for anybody else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater (Post 60098793)
If Hull and Pominville had been better players as teenagers they would not be Americans anymore? Ridiculous.
If Hull and Pominville had been better players as teenagers they might never have played for the USA, in which case they would obviously not be American players anymore. Pominville might not even have been eligible.

boris4c 02-20-2013 12:35 PM
You're right, I should not have included Jason Pominville because he's declared for the USA.

That's the reason I did not include Paul Stastny.

I guess that makes the squad considerably weaker on the right wing.

EbencoyE 02-20-2013 01:02 PM
I don't think JackSlater understands the IIHF's eligibility rules and how national declaration works for hockey.

If you have citizenship in a country, and have played at least two years of hockey there, you can play for their national team.

It doesn't matter if Pominville or any other player was born and trained in hockey in Canada, as long as they meet the IIHF requirements they can play for any other country they like.

Look at all the "CroNucks" as they're called that have gone to the EBEL to play for Medvescak so that they become eligible to play for Croatia internationally after two seasons. According to the IIHF, those players, most of whom never even stepped foot in Croatia before signing in the EBEL, are now Croatian hockey players.

Xokkeu 02-20-2013 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater (Post 60095851)
Where do you rank Bryan Trottier among American hockey greats? Just ahead of Tony Esposito? As far as Pominville's home, that is also irrelevent. He may feel like an American citizen, and that is perfectly reasonable at this point. He's a Canadian, and more specifically a Quebec, hockey product.



We don't know what his choice was, as it's unlikely that Canada had ever offered him a guaranteed opportunity internationally. I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have chosen to play for Canada, or Quebec, if their world junior teams had offered him a spot for instance (he was cut from the Canadian world junior team in the early 2000s). That would have locked him up for Canada or Quebec, without changing anything about him as a hockey player. It seems insane to me that Pominville magically becomes an American player because USA offered him a spot at the 2008 World Championship, due to his mother's citizenship.
You don't feel like an American citizen. You either have the passport or you don't.

Xokkeu 02-20-2013 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSlater (Post 60098793)
Not really. All four of them tried out for Canada, and only two were successful. All four of them then played for USA. If Hull and Pominville had been better players as teenagers they would not be Americans anymore? Ridiculous.

In any event, this is veering far enough from the actual topic so I will cease. To me Pominville is just as legitimate to add to this roster as anyone raised in Quebec.
Pominville and Hull and Colin Wilson would still be Americans, they just wouldn't be American hockey players because they would be wearing this jersey.

http://www.notredame.sk.ca/news_images/2107.jpg

The same with Martin Brodeur. He is an American, but he is not an American hockey player because he plays for Canada.

You can be both American and Canadian citizens, but you only get to pick one to play for.


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