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-   -   Paper-tigers...soft and gutless. Over-reaction? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1356291)

Stealth JD 02-21-2013 09:24 AM

Paper-tigers...soft and gutless. Over-reaction?
 
This team really is soft and gutless. I never thought I'd say that about a Blues team, who over the years have been characterized as blue-collar, in-your-face, and tough to play against.

Not so much with these guys. It's borderline embarrassing. I wouldn't even be upset if Armstrong down-graded the talent-level for a little more heart and toughness. This team is short on the thing it takes most to win a Cup - character.

All these pre-season prognosticators called this team Cup contenders? Really? A team where you could count on one hand (and have fingers left over) the guys who make life miserable on the other team? Please...

This club is the very definition of paper-tigers. And I fear without a key change in the makeup of this roster that they're going to remain pretenders who find a way to wilt when it matters most.

Tell me how wrong I am...please.

Mike Liut 02-21-2013 09:37 AM

Blues have too many guys who don't fight. Amac, Steen, Perron, Oshie (ok, once), Berglund, Schwartz, Tarasenko. That's 7 of your top 9 who won't drop the gloves. Not good. And Backes isn't really a fighter either. He will go once in a while, but he's not good at it. Stewart is the only real fighter in the top 9.

Blues0307 02-21-2013 09:53 AM

Not having a #1 center and a #2 defenseman is killing this team. I don't know if heart is the issue. I think the lack of funds is finally catching up to this team. Ian Cole being paired with Petro is a joke. David Backes as a #1 center is a joke. You can't continue to have a 1st line that has no chemistry and a guy who shouldn't even be in the NHL as your #2 defenseman. If the team had money, I guarantee upgrades would've been made over the last couple years.

BleedBlue247 02-21-2013 09:56 AM

I'm with stealth. There should have been retaliation. I honestly would have been ok giving up the point to send a message that you can't run our players. I'm disgusted.

PerryTurnbullfan 02-21-2013 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Liut (Post 60158695)
Blues have too many guys who don't fight. Amac, Steen, Perron, Oshie (ok, once), Berglund, Schwartz, Tarasenko. That's 7 of your top 9 who won't drop the gloves. Not good. And Backes isn't really a fighter either. He will go once in a while, but he's not good at it. Stewart is the only real fighter in the top 9.

Bunch of figure skaters, Nancy, Oksana, Michelle, etc. Tonya Harding has more grit. Just disgusted. I hope they all master their triple axels someday.... Truly disappointed...

MattyMo35 02-21-2013 10:43 AM

Ian Cole definitely belongs in the NHL, just not as a top pairing guy. When you watch him play in the AHL, it's painfully obvious he's a couple of steps above those guys. It's just stupid to say otherwise.

tfriede2 02-21-2013 10:43 AM

This makes me appreciate Chris Stewart a bit more...he didn't fight last night, but he was at least trash talking with the other team, and we know he can more than hold his own.

Jaskin seems like a player who would have done something last night - can't wait for his arrival (whether it be next year or the year after) as a big, mean, powerforward who has tons of skill.

Halak Ness Monster 02-21-2013 11:02 AM

I wouldn't be opposed to adding a Chris Neil type at the deadline.

Ottawa will have to fall out of the race, though.

bleedblue1223 02-21-2013 11:10 AM

This isn't the old NHL. We could add more toughness if we had actually elite skill at the top, but we have to rely on depth scoring.

We win by outskating our opponents, not by out-muscling them. This has been a common misconception of the Blues for the past couple years.

Mike Liut 02-21-2013 11:37 AM

One more big, tough, crease clearing defender would go a long way too. Left sided of coarse.

Steve Doan 02-21-2013 12:20 PM

This is nothing new. This team went soft when we traded Janssen and Dj king. Jackman likes to look tough, but really he hardy drops em anymore.As good of a leader backes is, I question his captaincy more and more after moments like this, on top of all the dumb penalties he still takes.

PerryTurnbullfan 02-21-2013 12:29 PM

It is a shame Ponich hasn't panned out. Hopefully Edmundson, Veillieux, Walters, and Beach can pan out and help the terminally soft.

BleedinBlueSince1972 02-21-2013 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Liut (Post 60163889)
One more big, tough, crease clearing defender would go a long way too. Left sided of course.

FIFY.

We been hearing that for a couple of years now, Armstrong is not willing to trade the assets and /or core players for one. It is what it is with a low revenue small market NHL team we have here in St. Louis.

sh724 02-21-2013 12:42 PM

I love teams like the Flyers and Bruins, big strong and lots of guys that hit and fight. The Blues used to have that but they did not have the skill of those teams. Now they are closer in talent but have lost a lot of the toughness. Most people will probably disagree with this but we should have kept Crombeen or brought in a similar player to take his place. Yes we already have to many guys on wing but the extra could always be traded for a center in a quantity for quality type deal. For the last 10+ years the Blues always had at least 2 guys on the roster that would fight whenever the time came. Now they only have Reaves, yes we have other guys that will fight but Reaves is the only one that fighting is part of his game.

Also I find it interesting that a lot of people are complaining about the Blues not responding last night but the same people jumped all over Stewart last year when he went after Stuart for hitting Petro.

Bluesman91 02-21-2013 01:46 PM

Won't win a cup till we spend to the cap. Can't expect to win something if you aren't willing to shell out the money.

bleedblue1223 02-21-2013 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluesman91 (Post 60170931)
Won't win a cup till we spend to the cap. Can't expect to win something if you aren't willing to shell out the money.

Not true.

Bluesman91 02-21-2013 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 (Post 60171081)
Not true.

Worked for us in the past right? Tell me where the last 10 stanley cup finalists ranked in cap space at the end of the season. Blues are constantly at the bottom 10 of money spent. Spending the money on players shows how dedicated this organization is to winning a cup. If you aren't willing to spend the money, you aren't willing to win that badly.

bleedblue1223 02-21-2013 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluesman91 (Post 60171519)
Worked for us in the past right? Tell me where the last 10 stanley cup finalists ranked in cap space at the end of the season. Blues are constantly at the bottom 10 of money spent. Spending the money on players shows how dedicated this organization is to winning a cup. If you aren't willing to spend the money, you aren't willing to win that badly.

Look at some of the top spending teams that fail year after year. What about the Blues before the lockout, we were right with all the other top spenders.

How much you spend helps, but it is not that much of a determining factor into your success.

Alklha 02-21-2013 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluesman91 (Post 60171519)
Worked for us in the past right? Tell me where the last 10 stanley cup finalists ranked in cap space at the end of the season. Blues are constantly at the bottom 10 of money spent. Spending the money on players shows how dedicated this organization is to winning a cup. If you aren't willing to spend the money, you aren't willing to win that badly.

Spending money wisely is far more important to the Blues at this point that going out and spending the cap. We can't spend significant money this season because we have significant raises coming next season. If we aren't at $56m+ next season, it will start to be a valid argument.

As for this thread, it is a bit of an overreaction. We have flaws in the team that will certainly need to be addressed, but there is a danger of wanting too much too soon. Last season was the first year of our window and we got to the second round and got thrashed by the eventual winners, who were basically the hottest team the playoffs had seen in years.

We have to wait at least until the end of this season before we can start being critical of the entire make-up of the team.

I don't think we need a #1C, I think the overall cost would hurt the team more than it would help. That might change. Another strong #2C would give us unparalleled depth.

PocketNines 02-21-2013 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blues0307 (Post 60159277)
Not having a #1 center and a #2 defenseman is killing this team. I don't know if heart is the issue. I think the lack of funds is finally catching up to this team. Ian Cole being paired with Petro is a joke. David Backes as a #1 center is a joke. You can't continue to have a 1st line that has no chemistry and a guy who shouldn't even be in the NHL as your #2 defenseman. If the team had money, I guarantee upgrades would've been made over the last couple years.

This opinion is absolutely ludicrous.

blue bleeder 24-7 02-21-2013 04:28 PM

I'm with OP.

kimzey59 02-21-2013 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PocketNines (Post 60176369)
This opinion is absolutely ludicrous.

Why, because you disagree with it?

Sorry; Ian Cole has not been good at all.
Even if you think he is beyond the AHL, he shouldn't be playing above the 3rd pairing. It is an absolute joke to have this guy lined up next to Pietrangelo. The guy is a 6-8 D man at best right now, and IMO it is not a stretch at all to say he should still be in Peoria getting more experience.

bleedblue1223 02-21-2013 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimzey59 (Post 60180841)
Why, because you disagree with it?

Sorry; Ian Cole has not been good at all.
Even if you think he is beyond the AHL, he shouldn't be playing above the 3rd pairing. It is an absolute joke to have this guy lined up next to Pietrangelo. The guy is a 6-8 D man at best right now, and IMO it is not a stretch at all to say he should still be in Peoria getting more experience.

He's been one of our top 4 defensemen this season. Russell and Redden have not been very good and Polak had a horrific stretch, that no one really brought up.

Cole gets way too much hate just because it is the easy thing to do. It makes sense to blame him, so people blame him, but he shouldn't be getting nearly as much blame as he gets on here.

Crumblin Erb Brooks 02-21-2013 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimzey59 (Post 60180841)
Why, because you disagree with it?

Sorry; Ian Cole has not been good at all.
Even if you think he is beyond the AHL, he shouldn't be playing above the 3rd pairing. It is an absolute joke to have this guy lined up next to Pietrangelo. The guy is a 6-8 D man at best right now, and IMO it is not a stretch at all to say he should still be in Peoria getting more experience.

Just because he is playing with Petro DOES NOT mean he is our #2 defenseman, that is Shattenkirk by a fair margin.

Yes he plays with Petro, yes he gets some tougher shifts, but he is our 4th defenseman by ice time. And he has easily been our 2nd best lefty Dman. Russell has played poorly and Redden looks old out there. Cole hasnt blown me away, but come on, Petro has looked as bad as anyone else on several plays this year.

Cole has looked better than anyone with Petro too. Chemistry has to be groomed, Cole and Petro have played less than 10 games together, and I think that they have the potential to complement each other well.

STL Hockey* 02-21-2013 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 (Post 60181395)
He's been one of our top 4 defensemen this season. Russell and Redden have not been very good and Polak had a horrific stretch, that no one really brought up.

Cole gets way too much hate just because it is the easy thing to do. It makes sense to blame him, so people blame him, but he shouldn't be getting nearly as much blame as he gets on here.

really because only reason jake allen made that amazing save against the sharks was because of that awful turnover. What about his 1 per game PIMS?


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