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-   -   So my Minor Peewee team is in the semi-finals game four... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=135672)

RoyIsALegend* 03-22-2005 11:01 PM

So my Minor Peewee team is in the semi-finals game four...
 
I am the goalie coach for the Cooksville Phantoms Minor Peewee 'A' team, and my dad is the head coach along with two other parents on the team serving as trainer and assistant coach.

Our team is currently in the semi-finals, and the way it works is that the two teams play as many games as necessary until one team gets _SIX_ points. Ties are allowed. So we lost the first game 2-1, tied the second game 1-1 and tied the third game 3-3, so we were down 4 points to 2 going into tonight.

We finished 3rd in the regular season, and they finished 2nd.

I decided to do something for the team's morale by making a huge sign saying 'DO... OR... DIE...'. As they all we coming into the rink, they read this and immediately got the boost they needed pre-game. The game was 0-0 going into the third period, when our 1st line left-winger got a 5 minute major + game misconduct for cross-checking an opposing forward head first into our goal post. The kid was severely injured, but the truth is that while the call was cross-checking, all he had done was go with him at full speed towards the net with the sticks lifted. As they got in front of the net, having the balance shifted upwards from the stick holding, the kid went head over heels and into the post. A terrible call.

So it's a 5 on 4 for 5 minutes, and we're absolutely getting peppered with shots. Our first string goaltender, who's played all but one game in the playoffs, was absolutely phenomenal. And our captian, whom is our first line centre, was blocking shots left and right, holding the puck up against the boards and giving us every chance to win. We were able to kill off the entire five minute major, and then we _immediately_ got another call.

Guess what this call was?

The referee, the same one who deemed our winger's stick-holding as intentional cross-checking from behind, says that our 2nd line right-winger _SPAT_ at another player after getting hit. Now, these kids are 11 years old, and I can tell you that of any player in the entire team, this kid would _NEVER_ do something like that. He is an absolute angel, and had ONE penalty in 42 regular season games, and that was for batting the puck down-ice on a penalty kill with a broken stick. The kid's mouthguard came flying out after he got hit, and happened to go in between the cage of his helmet, and this was deemed as SPITTING on the opposing player?

So we're down 5 on 4 for 2 minutes with 3:17 to go.

My dad(the head coach) decides that with our first line left winger kicked out, our second line right-winger in the box, and our two best penalty-killers already out there for a minute... to put the 3rd liners on.

Yup, the kids who ride the pine during the 3rd period.

He throws two of them on... blocked shot by one... break-away by the other one... _short-handed_... SNIPES TOP SHELF WITH 1:40 TO GO! The kid scored 3 goals in 40 regular season game, and hadn't popped one in the play-offs, and he scored the most important goal of the season so far.

We went up 1-0, killed off that penalty and went on to win, despite being short-handed for 7 of the 12 minutes in the third period.

I'm so proud of these guys, and now the series is tied up at 4 points apiece. Game five is on Thursday, and if either team wins, the series is over. If there's a tie, then we go to a game six. I'm hoping that with our momentum from the shut-out and the heroic end of the game, we can eliminate them in game five and go on to the finals.

Anybody think I should put the 'DO OR DIE' sign again on the door? We are facing elimination, but the same time I risk bringing in a repetitive nature and it may not have the same effect.

LET'S GO COOKSVILLE PHANTOMS!

By the way, you can follow the scores here if you'd like:

http://allplayers.bladenet.net/allpl...eCode=&x=0&y=0

We're Cooksville 40, and we're facing Port Credit 40.

And here are the 'brackets' if you will:

http://allplayers.bladenet.net/allpl...heduleNumber=5

Anybody in the Mississauga area is welcome to come cheer us on at Erin Mills Twin Arenas on Thursday night!

BCCHL inactive 03-22-2005 11:24 PM

Criticizing officials and "do or die" signs in peewee hockey. :shakehead

RoyIsALegend* 03-22-2005 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van
Criticizing officials and "do or die" signs in peewee hockey. :shakehead

The do or die is a joke obviously, but an influential boost and not one parent had a problem with that. Not one.

Also, I never let the officials know what I think, and neither does any of the coaching staff. We are subject to discuss calls as much as we want.

It was awful officiating, and neutral observers from OTHER teams watching all admitted it after. The majority believed the referees were terrible... there's nothing your bias can do about that, Van.

FLYLine27 03-23-2005 12:01 AM

Arent Peewees 13-14 year olds?

RoyIsALegend* 03-23-2005 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
Arent Peewees 13-14 year olds?

...?

These guys are MINOR peewee, which means they are all 11 year olds turning 12 in 2005. In Peewee, they're 12 year olds turning 13.

BCCHL inactive 03-23-2005 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
The do or die is a joke obviously, but an influential boost and not one parent had a problem with that. Not one.

Also, I never let the officials know what I think, and neither does any of the coaching staff. We are subject to discuss calls as much as we want.

It was awful officiating, and neutral observers from OTHER teams watching all admitted it after. The majority believed the referees were terrible... there's nothing your bias can do about that, Van.

You're goddam right I'm biased on this issue. Too many people don't understand that officiating at the Peewee level is not awful, it is inexperienced. I see it all the time at the rinks here. Parents and others watching expect much too high of a standard of officiating in minor hockey. People in general have no respect for the fact these kids are learning, just like their kids on the ice.

It goes beyond peewee hockey too. I've coached officials calling games at the novice and tyke level, and while the parents laugh and giggle at their kids trying and missing a pass, or falling down after losing their balance (aww, how cute)...they'll tear a strip of a young referee who didn't call a penalty when they think their kid got tripped, held, etc.

I'm not picking on you specifically with this post. I guess I'm just sick of minor hockey in general, and the continuous unsuccessful efforts at educating players, coaches and most of all, parents on officiating. My local association offered to put on a meeting where coaches and parents could come and ask senior officials questions about their concerns. We needed just 10 people to sign up for it, and we advertised well. Only 3 people were willing to voice themselves in a mature setting where we were going to do our best to open a line of communication.

Again, this isn't picking on you, this is just my frustration with minor hockey boiling over.

jacklours 03-23-2005 12:51 PM

I agree with Van, some coaches and parents are just plain dumb. I was refing some novice a few weeks ago. The score is 6-2 for the home team, and the visiting team is attacking some kid takes the rebound and goes for the wrap around by going all the way around the net to the other side. The goalie on his knees and beaten throws his sticks towards the player before he starts wrapping around, he hits the puck. It is a pretty harmless move made by a novice kid. Everytone
finds it funny and laughs, everyone knows your not suppose to do that and that it deserves a penalty. Anyways, I give the penalty shot, then as I'm making my sign the crowd boos me (nothing has happened previously in the game AT ALL), anyways, the coach climbs up on the board yelling stuff that will be blacked out on this website. I calmly ask him to climb down and I explain him the whole thing. He said as a first excuse that the goalkeeper couldn't have thrown his sticks but he just dropped it, HES ONLY A NOVICE he says. Then he's blaming me for giving a penalty shot. THE KIDS ARE ONLY NOVICE he says, he won't do it anymore as he grows. Is there a better time to learn I answer then when your 10 years old?

Anyways, the crowd was going nuts and so did the coach. Totally unexplainable for a single call (good or bad) when it's about 10 years old kids. And also, there is 3-4 minutes left in the game and your winning by 4 calm down. Would it have been Midget I would have kick him out as he wqas yelling louldly and didn't seem to stop, but I didn't want to do that for novice.

RoyIsALegend* 03-23-2005 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van
You're goddam right I'm biased on this issue. Too many people don't understand that officiating at the Peewee level is not awful, it is inexperienced. I see it all the time at the rinks here. Parents and others watching expect much too high of a standard of officiating in minor hockey. People in general have no respect for the fact these kids are learning, just like their kids on the ice.

It goes beyond peewee hockey too. I've coached officials calling games at the novice and tyke level, and while the parents laugh and giggle at their kids trying and missing a pass, or falling down after losing their balance (aww, how cute)...they'll tear a strip of a young referee who didn't call a penalty when they think their kid got tripped, held, etc.

I'm not picking on you specifically with this post. I guess I'm just sick of minor hockey in general, and the continuous unsuccessful efforts at educating players, coaches and most of all, parents on officiating. My local association offered to put on a meeting where coaches and parents could come and ask senior officials questions about their concerns. We needed just 10 people to sign up for it, and we advertised well. Only 3 people were willing to voice themselves in a mature setting where we were going to do our best to open a line of communication.

Again, this isn't picking on you, this is just my frustration with minor hockey boiling over.

You're ranting about a league you have absolutely no knowledge of.

The MHL(Mississauga Hockey League) has a group of experienced, adult referees who have been doing this since I was a little kid playing tyke. Hell, they recognize me from when they reffed me as a goaltender. These guys have done thousands of games, and the level should be MUCH higher.

These are _not_ kids and there are _no kid referees_ in this league.

They're all adults who have been doing this for many, many, many years(the head referee yesterday is one I've recognized since tyke) and should know what they're doing.

BCCHL inactive 03-23-2005 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
You're ranting about a league you have absolutely no knowledge of.

The MHL(Mississauga Hockey League) has a group of experienced, adult referees who have been doing this since I was a little kid playing tyke. Hell, they recognize me from when they reffed me as a goaltender. These guys have done thousands of games, and the level should be MUCH higher.

These are _not_ kids and there are _no kid referees_ in this league.

They're all adults who have been doing this for many, many, many years(the head referee yesterday is one I've recognized since tyke) and should know what they're doing.

The fact that they have the experience suggests even more that their calls were right.

Aside from that, peewee hockey should be used for developping young officials. Unless there is nobody else to take the games, officials for peewee hockey should be under 20, and certified no higher than Level 2 under HCOP.

RoyIsALegend* 03-23-2005 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van
Aside from that, peewee hockey should be used for developping young officials. Unless there is nobody else to take the games, officials for peewee hockey should be under 20, and certified no higher than Level 2 under HCOP.

I'll have to disagree here.

I don't think the age level should have anything to do with it, but rather level of competition. For instance, I think have teenagers officating in an 'A' league is absolutely ridiculous. Thankfully, we only have _one_ young referee and he is actually very, very accurate with his calls. All the other ones are at least 30 years of age or older.

I think the teenage referees should only do houseleague games as those kids are usually terrible anyhow, and the level of intensity of coaches, players and the audience is significantly lower.

Teenage referees at a rep. level... :sarcasm:

PredsFan77* 03-23-2005 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
I am the goalie coach for the Cooksville Phantoms Minor Peewee 'A' team, and my dad is the head coach along with two other parents on the team serving as trainer and assistant coach.

Our team is currently in the semi-finals, and the way it works is that the two teams play as many games as necessary until one team gets _SIX_ points. Ties are allowed. So we lost the first game 2-1, tied the second game 1-1 and tied the third game 3-3, so we were down 4 points to 2 going into tonight.

We finished 3rd in the regular season, and they finished 2nd.

I decided to do something for the team's morale by making a huge sign saying 'DO... OR... DIE...'. As they all we coming into the rink, they read this and immediately got the boost they needed pre-game. The game was 0-0 going into the third period, when our 1st line left-winger got a 5 minute major + game misconduct for cross-checking an opposing forward head first into our goal post. The kid was severely injured, but the truth is that while the call was cross-checking, all he had done was go with him at full speed towards the net with the sticks lifted. As they got in front of the net, having the balance shifted upwards from the stick holding, the kid went head over heels and into the post. A terrible call.

So it's a 5 on 4 for 5 minutes, and we're absolutely getting peppered with shots. Our first string goaltender, who's played all but one game in the playoffs, was absolutely phenomenal. And our captian, whom is our first line centre, was blocking shots left and right, holding the puck up against the boards and giving us every chance to win. We were able to kill off the entire five minute major, and then we _immediately_ got another call.

Guess what this call was?

The referee, the same one who deemed our winger's stick-holding as intentional cross-checking from behind, says that our 2nd line right-winger _SPAT_ at another player after getting hit. Now, these kids are 11 years old, and I can tell you that of any player in the entire team, this kid would _NEVER_ do something like that. He is an absolute angel, and had ONE penalty in 42 regular season games, and that was for batting the puck down-ice on a penalty kill with a broken stick. The kid's mouthguard came flying out after he got hit, and happened to go in between the cage of his helmet, and this was deemed as SPITTING on the opposing player?

So we're down 5 on 4 for 2 minutes with 3:17 to go.

My dad(the head coach) decides that with our first line left winger kicked out, our second line right-winger in the box, and our two best penalty-killers already out there for a minute... to put the 3rd liners on.

Yup, the kids who ride the pine during the 3rd period.

He throws two of them on... blocked shot by one... break-away by the other one... _short-handed_... SNIPES TOP SHELF WITH 1:40 TO GO! The kid scored 3 goals in 40 regular season game, and hadn't popped one in the play-offs, and he scored the most important goal of the season so far.

We went up 1-0, killed off that penalty and went on to win, despite being short-handed for 7 of the 12 minutes in the third period.

I'm so proud of these guys, and now the series is tied up at 4 points apiece. Game five is on Thursday, and if either team wins, the series is over. If there's a tie, then we go to a game six. I'm hoping that with our momentum from the shut-out and the heroic end of the game, we can eliminate them in game five and go on to the finals.

Anybody think I should put the 'DO OR DIE' sign again on the door? We are facing elimination, but the same time I risk bringing in a repetitive nature and it may not have the same effect.

LET'S GO COOKSVILLE PHANTOMS!

By the way, you can follow the scores here if you'd like:

http://allplayers.bladenet.net/allpl...eCode=&x=0&y=0

We're Cooksville 40, and we're facing Port Credit 40.

And here are the 'brackets' if you will:

http://allplayers.bladenet.net/allpl...heduleNumber=5

Anybody in the Mississauga area is welcome to come cheer us on at Erin Mills Twin Arenas on Thursday night!


IN USAHockey, if a player is injured as a result of a cross checking penalty, the result is 5 and a game whether the intent is there or not...don't know how it is up there...

608(b) A major plus a game misconduct penalty shall be
imposed on any player who injures an opponent by
“cross-checking.”

RoyIsALegend* 03-23-2005 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PredsFan77
IN USAHockey, if a player is injured as a result of a cross checking penalty, the result is 5 and a game whether the intent is there or not...don't know how it is up there...

608(b) A major plus a game misconduct penalty shall be
imposed on any player who injures an opponent by
“cross-checking.”

I'm not arguing that at all.

I know the rules... we have to know every single rule before we become certified coaches.

It's that it _wasn't_ a cross-check, but rather holding of the sticks. The referee made the wrong call, and everybody knew it.

BCCHL inactive 03-23-2005 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
I'll have to disagree here.

I don't think the age level should have anything to do with it, but rather level of competition. For instance, I think have teenagers officating in an 'A' league is absolutely ridiculous. Thankfully, we only have _one_ young referee and he is actually very, very accurate with his calls. All the other ones are at least 30 years of age or older.

I think the teenage referees should only do houseleague games as those kids are usually terrible anyhow, and the level of intensity of coaches, players and the audience is significantly lower.

Teenage referees at a rep. level... :sarcasm:

There are teenage referees and linesmen working all the way up to Major Junior hockey in this country, and it's because they are good enough to do so. I made Jr.A at 18. Tell something like that to Pat Smith...he started as a WHL referee at 19. He is 21 now, and has gotten assignments such as the Canada Games Final, the CHL Prospects Game this season, and he will be in the NHL sooner than later. If he wouldn't have been able to work anything but house hockey as a teenager, there is one less elite official.

If you don't let younger officials work the lower levels of hockey (yes, Peewee rep is a lower level of hockey), then you won't have any officials ready to step into junior hockey when they are needed.

Like it or not, minor hockey is about developping referees. Any association/league not respecting that is doing a disservice to those young officials with potential.

RoyIsALegend* 03-23-2005 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van
Like it or not, minor hockey is about developping referees. Any association/league not respecting that is doing a disservice to those young officials with potential.

No, minor hockey is about developing young hockey players, not referees.

Thankfully, the league I coach in do not have teenagers reffing, nor have I _ever_ witnessed any teenage referees at the rep. level in the Mississauga Hockey League.

Let the young referees do the houseleague games... what's wrong with that?

Canadian Chris 03-23-2005 08:52 PM

whats wrong with that? They don't develope.

On ice officials don't just grow on trees. Minor hockey IS for helping to develope officials. Just like Jr. A, and B are for developing officials, and just like how the CHL is a developmental league for officials as well.

I've been on all 3 sides of the equation. I've reffed, and done up to Bantam AAA on the Island and I've played a full season Jr. B with a cup of coffee playing Jr. A. I've also coached...and in the reffing and the coaching, I was went in under the belief that it was 1. to be a learning experience(especially as an official) and 2. To give back to the game.

No ref is perfect. No linesman is perfect and no coach is pefect.

I have no problem with allowing teenagers to work PeeWee and Bantam rep games because you'll gain THAT much more experience. It's just like the players, they gain THAT much more experience being on the ice for those teams than they would playing in a house league.

WhoozYerrDaddy 03-23-2005 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van
Like it or not, minor hockey is about developping referees. Any association/league not respecting that is doing a disservice to those young officials with potential.

<RANT MODE ON>

I agree with Van. Inexperienced officials should work younger kids games, preferably with an experienced partner. It is the only way that they will get the needed experience to progress to higher levels. There needs to be a new crop of officials to replace us oldtimers when we finally hang them up.

If they don't get 'better' now, when will they? Five or ten years from now, they will be the experienced officials, teaching new officials. Otherwise, where will your experienced officials come from then?

If you have all the experienced officials doing the squirt and pee wee games, who will do the bantams or midgets? We don't have enough officials here as it is, even only having two guys on a game, let alone three.

We have nearly a 40% rate of 16 and under first year officials who do not return for their second year. Do you know why? Not because of the complexities of officiating. Not because of the players. Not because of the cold. Not because they don't look good in stripes.

It's because of coaches and parents.We have had twelve year old officials come off the ice in tears because of what was being yelled at him. We had a father pull his 13 year old off the ice because of an idiot coach. Never saw either one of them again.

If you don't want to deal with younger, inexperienced officials, then don't have a pee wee age or younger kid playing hockey.

<END OF RANT>

:soap: :soap: :soap: :soap:

RoyIsALegend* 03-23-2005 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoozYerrDaddy
If you don't want to deal with younger, inexperienced officials, then don't have a pee wee age or younger kid playing hockey.

Where did I make one single complaint of a personal experience with a younger official during any of my Minor Peewee team's games? Not once.

All I said is that I'm extremely grateful that the MHL does not have teenage referees doing 'A' games. That's great, in my opinion, because they're prone to mistakes that the experienced guys wouldn't make. That's from my three years of coaching from what I've experienced, and in my years of playing.

RoyIsALegend* 03-23-2005 11:23 PM

I'm extremely disappointed that every single post in this thread has veered away from my initial post, and there has not been one word discussed about my thread starting post.

So _please_, no more post regarding officiating.

Thank you kindly.

Canadian Chris 03-23-2005 11:50 PM

LOL...ok, back to the topic on hand...

Congrats RIAL, on motivating your team.

Instead of the sign though, which by the way, I see nothing wrong with...I'd go with some sort of speach talking of your own experiences in a situation like this...something along the lines of be a hero...blah blah blah...seize the moment...haha...something corny, but something that will get the point across.

Hell, tell them they've got a guy in Prince George cheering them on! haha :yo:

RoyIsALegend* 03-24-2005 01:14 AM

Thanks Chris, I'll be sure to let them know that people all over the country are rooting for them! :D :lol

BCCHL inactive 03-24-2005 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
No, minor hockey is about developing young hockey players, not referees.

Oh really? Then where are the referees supposed to develop? I know you don't want to hear it, but I'm getting my two cents in.

House leagues in minor hockey do not offer good enough quality hockey to develop officials...at least not as good as rep hockey does. Officials work peewee games to earn the bantam games....the bantam games to earn the midget games ...the Jr.B games to earn the Jr.A games...etc.

Minor hockey is about developing players, officials and coaches.

Again...tell this to a guy like Pat Smith, who is a 3rd year WHL referee at 21 years of age.

RoyIsALegend* 03-24-2005 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van
Oh really? Then where are the referees supposed to develop? I know you don't want to hear it, but I'm getting my two cents in.

House leagues in minor hockey do not offer good enough quality hockey to develop officials...at least not as good as rep hockey does. Officials work peewee games to earn the bantam games....the bantam games to earn the midget games ...the Jr.B games to earn the Jr.A games...etc.

Minor hockey is about developing players, officials and coaches.

Again...tell this to a guy like Pat Smith, who is a 3rd year WHL referee at 21 years of age.

Super.

Now, if you have nothing else to add to this thread, be gone.

FLYLine27 03-24-2005 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
...?

These guys are MINOR peewee, which means they are all 11 year olds turning 12 in 2005. In Peewee, they're 12 year olds turning 13.

Ah alright..we dont have Minor peewees in the US..thought you just put the word Minor to show they were kids. We do have Migdet Minor though.

RoyIsALegend* 03-24-2005 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
Ah alright..we dont have Minor peewees in the US..thought you just put the word Minor to show they were kids. We do have Migdet Minor though.

In minor hockey here, it works like this:

- Minor Atom (9 turning 10)
- Atom(10 turning 11)
- Minor Peewee(11 turning 12)
- Peewee(12 turning 13)
- Minor Bantam(13 turning 14)
- Bantam(14 turning 15)
- Midget(15 to 17)

Anyhow, I'm off to the game... been nervous all day for the guys, had both my goaltenders over at the house last night for a meal and some talk. Wish us luck! :yo: :handclap:

RoyIsALegend* 03-24-2005 11:21 PM

We lost 3-1.

The kids came out flat, and the defense was terrible tonight.

Oh well, a great season and I'm sure we'll be considerably stronger next year with the core group remaining together. There will be three guaranteed changes on forward and one guaranteed change on defense. At least four kids changed, and maybe one more if we get the forward we want from another team.

I'm proud of these guys! :handclap:


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