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-   -   Has Tatar earned more ice time??? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1357603)

BinCookin 02-22-2013 02:04 PM

Has Tatar earned more ice time???
 
I would like a more "positive" set of responses within this thread please and thank you.

Our team currently has a bunch of injuries as we all know.

This has left several openings in the line up (even next to Datsyuk). The only Line that is mostly healthy is Flip-Z-Brunner.

So let me ask you all this?

Do you think Tatar has legitimately shown he deserves to be playing beside Datsyuk on one of our two equally good scoring lines?

Lets not turn this into a thread about Cleary and Sammy etc. Or a comparison. Lets pretend Sammy is as good as he was in Vancouver. And Cleary is as good as he was 3 years ago.

Has Tatar played well enough to earn at least 1-2 games beside Datsyuk to see if they have an chemistry together?

When Datsyuk and Zetterberg entered the league, they were played on a third line, although those teams were definitely stronger than our current team.
(I.E. should he stay on the third line not to put too much pressure on him?)

Should Tatar's playing time be linked to how well the team is doing?

My answer to all of these questions is basically this:

Tatar appears currently to be 3rd best player on the team when it comes to "making his line appear dangerous, or aiding in the formation of scoring chances". I think he has earned the right to play 1 or 2 games besides Datsyuk. I.E. move Abdelkader back down to the checking role. Pretend Cleary is still "old" cleary, and that he belongs up there sorta (Because MB surely views it this way).

And again, thoughtful positive posts please. All our threads are beginning to look the same. (you know what im talking about)

CloneHakanPlease* 02-22-2013 02:05 PM

100% yes.

The fact he isn't getting at least some shifts with Dats or a real center is maddening.

P U L L H A R D 02-22-2013 02:06 PM

We need Bertuzzi or Franzen on the other wings for size, but yes, definitely. No question he should be there over the Abbys, Clearys and Samuelssons of this team.

BinCookin 02-22-2013 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EZBAKE (Post 60256565)
100% yes.

The fact he isn't getting at least some shifts with Dats or a real center is maddening.

Maddening is a good word to describe my thought process as well.

Is it true Babcock hasn't even mentioned his name in any interviews?

... I find that strange

The Zetterberg Era 02-22-2013 02:13 PM

He probably has earned a bigger chance. Keep in mind with his ice time he is unlikely to hit the first PP unit especially when healthy there is no argument for it and he doesn't kill penalties.

But playing with Datsyuk wouldn't be the worst thing at least a longer experiment of looking at it. I would actually keep Abdelkader there over Cleary at this point but that is another subject.

Taking Tatar out of the bottom six though right now means going back to having a line down there that probably won't ever have the puck again. That part of the logic makes a little sense not playing his bottom six line the most right now doesn't however.

SoupNazi 02-22-2013 02:13 PM

Short answer: yes.
Long answer: yessssssss.

BinCookin 02-22-2013 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era (Post 60257043)
That part of the logic makes a little sense not playing his bottom six line the most right now doesn't however.

So what you are saying is Emmerton/Tootoo line is more like the 3rd line
and the Tatar-Anderson line is more like the 4th line according to playing time?

Its hard to tell sometimes, I do not know a site to look up ES playing time, to eliminate PP/PK times.

sepster 02-22-2013 02:24 PM

Absolutely. I've always liked Tatar because he displays that mentality of wanting the puck, wanting to take it to the net and wanting to score. He's not content to just hitch along for the ride, but he wants to be a difference maker.

Brunner shows that same attitude, so does Zetterberg, Datysuk learned to adopt that mentality. It's refreshing to see another young guy that wants the puck on his stick.

The Zetterberg Era 02-22-2013 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BinCookin (Post 60257481)
So what you are saying is Emmerton/Tootoo line is more like the 3rd line
and the Tatar-Anderson line is more like the 4th line according to playing time?

Its hard to tell sometimes, I do not know a site to look up ES playing time, to eliminate PP/PK times.

ESPN does it in their box scores. Last game he got 4 more seconds than Tootoo who played the lowest. Of course Tootoo also served 17 minutes worth of penalties.

JPE123 02-22-2013 03:30 PM

He is showing a lot of potential in all areas of his game. He has speed, pretty decent puck handling skills and a nice shot.

Compare to Cleary, who is slow, loses the puck a lot and Abby who is fast enough but doesn't handle the puck well.

I think we're missing an opportunity by not giving Tatar the chance. It's not like we'd be breaking up a winning combination

Brick Top 02-22-2013 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sepster (Post 60257681)
Absolutely. I've always liked Tatar because he displays that mentality of wanting the puck, wanting to take it to the net and wanting to score. He's not content to just hitch along for the ride, but he wants to be a difference maker.

Brunner shows that same attitude, so does Zetterberg, Datysuk learned to adopt that mentality. It's refreshing to see another young guy that wants the puck on his stick.

I've really liked his aggressiveness on offense also- seems that a lot of our younger guys over the years have been very deferential on offense, and I've kinda chalked it up to a combination of their mindset as players along with the knowledge that they are on a short leash and will get demoted/benched if they make mistakes.

Tatar just seems to be willing to play his game, make plays when they are there, and doesn't have to be begged to shoot the puck. I think he belongs on Datsyuk's wing given the injury situation to play opposite Abby, and I'm very confident in him as a player to keep producing and being dangerous on the ice for our 3rd line when everyone's healthy for the rest of the season.

Of course, I am less confident that Kenny won't just send him to GR when enough forwards come back healthy instead of moving out some of the redundant bottom 6 guys we have. :(

RedWinger10 02-22-2013 04:06 PM

Without a doubt he has earned more ice time! But what should happen with him once Bert, Franzen, and Helm get back? THAT is the REAL question!

Guru Meditation 02-22-2013 04:10 PM

I think he should get a shot on Datsyuk's wing with Cleary. I know I know Cleary is evil, but Tatar actually looked halfway decent with Cleary. Plus, Tatar is used to playing with Nyquist, and Nyquist tries his hardest to play like Datsyuk. He's used to crazy passing plays and having to be ready for a pass at any time.

silkyjohnson50 02-22-2013 05:19 PM

Datsyuk is creating a lot of chances at the moment. I'd certainly like to see Tatar, who has a nose for net and some skill, on the ice while this is happening. At this point I don't even care who else is on the line, but having both Cleary and Abs there with Tatar available is a head scratcher.

Tatar has been one of the most impressive forwards on this team the past handful of games. If he can't get more ice time with the current state of the lineup, what the heck is Babcock going to do when Tatar, Nyquist, Jarnkrok, and Sheahan are all ready for the big club.

I find it very confusing and inconsistent in how he handles young players. Tatar, Kindl, and Lashoff have all been treated differently IMO.

ricky0034 02-22-2013 06:15 PM

any way you look at it 9 minutes of ice time/game is pretty ridiculous

The Zetterberg Era 02-22-2013 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricky0034 (Post 60268799)
any way you look at it 9 minutes of ice time/game is pretty ridiculous

Unless that is Cleary's new ice time stat. :laugh:

TatarTangle 02-22-2013 06:23 PM

He earned it years ago.

He's been the best player outside of Datysuk and Zetterberg. Unfortunately favortism is commonplace in the Red Wings' organization. It's time to shake it up.

TatarTangle 02-22-2013 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 (Post 60266307)
I find it very confusing and inconsistent in how he handles young players. Tatar, Kindl, and Lashoff have all been treated differently IMO.

Oh, you mean the guy that left his man wide open in front of the net to let him score the GW goal for Columbus last night? And Babcock probably still sang praises for him? Meanwhile the guy that is the closest thing to a puck moving defenseman they have is sitting in the press box...

VladTheImpaler 02-22-2013 06:40 PM

Yes. On a top-six line, you need more than one player that can create a scoring chance by himself. Datsyuk needs another offensive threat on his line, not two average/below average NHLers.

Big Poppa Puck 02-22-2013 06:57 PM

Yes.

Gorgeous George 02-22-2013 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricky0034 (Post 60268799)
any way you look at it 9 minutes of ice time/game is pretty ridiculous

Tatar should be given top six minutes, but he will probably need to wait until next year to get it.

He has been playing with great enthusiasm, effort, and has showed signs of intelligence and great skill at both ends of the ice. It would definitely be nice to see what he could do on a consistent basis playing on the top two lines.

Babcock is going for the playoffs, though, and is relying on a veterans. With the injuries and Cleary, Bert, and the Mule showing their age, it is looking more and more unlikely.

However, having said that, Tatar needs 10-15 games on the top unit, and shouldn't be demoralized by being demoted on his first few bad games. Cannot see Babcock taking this risk. Unfortunately.

The Zetterberg Era 02-22-2013 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorgeous George (Post 60274217)
Tatar should be given top six minutes, but he will probably need to wait until next year to get it.

He has been playing with great enthusiasm, effort, and has showed signs of intelligence and great skill at both ends of the ice. It would definitely be nice to see what he could do on a consistent basis playing on the top two lines.

Babcock is going for the playoffs, though, and is relying on a veterans. With the injuries and Cleary, Bert, and the Mule showing their age, it is looking more and more unlikely.

However, having said that, Tatar needs 10-15 games on the top unit, and shouldn't be demoralized by being demoted on his first few bad games. Cannot see Babcock taking this risk. Unfortunately.

Franzen hasn't been showing his age, he has been great for the most part when healthy all year. People might still hate the guy, but he has played very well. This whole losing streak they are on is in no small part because he is out of the lineup right now.

nik jr 02-22-2013 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era (Post 60257043)
He probably has earned a bigger chance. Keep in mind with his ice time he is unlikely to hit the first PP unit especially when healthy there is no argument for it and he doesn't kill penalties.

But playing with Datsyuk wouldn't be the worst thing at least a longer experiment of looking at it. I would actually keep Abdelkader there over Cleary at this point but that is another subject.

Taking Tatar out of the bottom six though right now means going back to having a line down there that probably won't ever have the puck again. That part of the logic makes a little sense not playing his bottom six line the most right now doesn't however.

that is a reasonable argument to keep tatar on 3rd line, but he absolutely deserves more PPTOI. he is probably the 3rd most creative and dangerous player on the team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sepster (Post 60257681)
Absolutely. I've always liked Tatar because he displays that mentality of wanting the puck, wanting to take it to the net and wanting to score. He's not content to just hitch along for the ride, but he wants to be a difference maker.

Brunner shows that same attitude, so does Zetterberg, Datysuk learned to adopt that mentality. It's refreshing to see another young guy that wants the puck on his stick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brick Top (Post 60262823)
I've really liked his aggressiveness on offense also- seems that a lot of our younger guys over the years have been very deferential on offense, and I've kinda chalked it up to a combination of their mindset as players along with the knowledge that they are on a short leash and will get demoted/benched if they make mistakes.

Tatar just seems to be willing to play his game, make plays when they are there, and doesn't have to be begged to shoot the puck. I think he belongs on Datsyuk's wing given the injury situation to play opposite Abby, and I'm very confident in him as a player to keep producing and being dangerous on the ice for our 3rd line when everyone's healthy for the rest of the season.

Of course, I am less confident that Kenny won't just send him to GR when enough forwards come back healthy instead of moving out some of the redundant bottom 6 guys we have. :(

agree

tatar's offensive awareness, aggressive mentality, confidence and patience with the puck are very impressive.

he is also surprisingly not bad defensively.

Gorgeous George 02-22-2013 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era (Post 60275729)
Franzen hasn't been showing his age, he has been great for the most part when healthy all year. People might still hate the guy, but he has played very well. This whole losing streak they are on is in no small part because he is out of the lineup right now.

I agree with your comments about Franzen. However, he has been injury plagued historically, and, unfortunately, those injuries compound with age.

Franzen can no longer be counted on for a season long roster spot. When he is healthy, he is a force, no question.

As for Tatar, my projections during prime plateau is 55-60+ pts.

Goalie guy 02-22-2013 09:27 PM

I think they should put Tartar and Nyquist on Dats line just try it at least.


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