HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   San Jose Sharks (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=43)
-   -   Should Thornton be traded? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1359345)

Squeeven 02-24-2013 04:41 PM

Should Thornton be traded?
 
For me this me this is a tough question and I'm honestly not sure. Its not as simple as yes or no because ever since Jumbo has come here he's been the heart and soul of this team both on and off the ice, be it in the locker room or just community wise. I know Joe loves it in San Jose and we all love him too but I just think that maybe his game is a bit too predictable which is one of the big reasons why our top 6 tends to struggle sometimes. Every defenseman in the league knows that Joe is almost always thinking "pass first" and it becomes easy to stop. With Joe leading the top line and the powerplay it becomes easy to shut him down when he stops and sets up in the corner to make the most predictable passes and it just slows our offense down so much. I don't think I have to tell you guys how slow he is and imagine if Marleau was playing with a top 6 forward who was fast. Guys like Thornton, Clowe and Handzus really slow our offense down and clearly one of the main reasons our offense is struggling so much is because of a lack of speed which makes it harder for our guys to make a clean zone entry. As you can see my main reasons for proposing this question are because of his speed and predictability. Thornton has a wicked wrist shot which we rarely see and when we do see it there's a good chance its in the back of the net. Anyway, I'm not saying we should trade him but I don't think it could hurt to shop him or hear out some offers for him. I still love Joe but if he doesn't start changing his game soon a bit then he might have to go before his value decreases even more.

What do you guys think we should trade him for and what do you think he's worth? I think he could fetch us a few 1st round picks and a good prospect or a top 6 forward and a pick or two, obviously depending on which forward.

Mafoofoo 02-24-2013 04:42 PM

**** no and you should feel horrible for even suggesting this. Marleau should go. Jumbo's the greatest Shark past, present and future and will never leave SJ.

Barrie22 02-24-2013 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mafoofoo (Post 60391781)
**** no and you should feel horrible for even suggesting this. Marleau should go. Jumbo's the greatest Shark past, present and future and will never leave SJ.

i'm starting to get confused. not sure if you are serious lately or just joking around lol.

Mafoofoo 02-24-2013 04:50 PM

I never joke when it comes to defending my boy Thornton.

Kitten Mittons 02-24-2013 04:52 PM

He's our enforcer. You need to have one in the West.

Barrie22 02-24-2013 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mafoofoo (Post 60392499)
I never joke when it comes to defending my boy Thornton.

sheesh and people call be a bad thornton homer, you just take the homerism to a whole new level lol.

Squeeven 02-24-2013 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mafoofoo (Post 60391781)
**** no and you should feel horrible for even suggesting this. Marleau should go. Jumbo's the greatest Shark past, present and future and will never leave SJ.

I'm not saying he should and that he isn't one of the best Sharks, if not the best to ever play for us but are you going to actually sit there and tell me that he's not predictable a lot of the time, that he's blazing fast and that he shoots the puck a lot? Come on man, I love Thornton just as much as the next Sharks fan but it's kinda true.

TheJuxtaposer 02-24-2013 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitten Mittons (Post 60392591)
He's our enforcer. You need to have one in the West.

:laugh:


Since I've been advocating a rebuild since before this season started, I'll have to say yes. Trade him for a first and a blue chip forward prospect or an elite young forward. He deserves to wina Cup, and that ain't happenin' here. I'm sure Joe would waive if they explained it to him that way.

Barrie22 02-24-2013 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeeven (Post 60392753)
I'm not saying he should and that he isn't one of the best Sharks, if not the best to ever play for us but are you going to actually sit there and tell me that he's not predictable a lot of the time, that he's blazing fast and that he shoots the puck a lot? Come on man, I love Thornton just as much as the next Sharks fan but it's kinda true.

he's not marleau fast, but he's also not murray slow either.

thornton is like a loaded transport truck, slow to get going but once it gets going it gets moving pretty good and it is impossible to stop.

Barrie22 02-24-2013 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer (Post 60393151)
:laugh:


Since I've been advocating a rebuild since before this season started, I'll have to say yes. Trade him for a first and a blue chip forward prospect or an elite young forward. He deserves to wina Cup, and that ain't happenin' here. I'm sure Joe would waive if they explained it to him that way.

sadly i don't think he would, not yet any ways. he would have to be the last to be traded of the big boys.

so that would mean marleau is gone, boyle is gone, havlat is gone, and even potentially one of couture or pavs has to be gone.

if he thinks there is even the slightest chance to win he will stay with the sharks.

Mafoofoo 02-24-2013 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeeven (Post 60392753)
I'm not saying he should and that he isn't one of the best Sharks, if not the best to ever play for us but are you going to actually sit there and tell me that he's not predictable a lot of the time, that he's blazing fast and that he shoots the puck a lot? Come on man, I love Thornton just as much as the next Sharks fan but it's kinda true.

I dunno if he was so predictable you'd think he wouldn't be able to still post PPG or PPG+ numbers right? Also blazing fast and shoots the puck alot? Like Marleau? I don't see him lighting the world on fire but no just cuz hes only played in SJ it's totes cool beans.

He's here to stay. Teal with it. Just trade guys like Boyle, Couture, Clowe, Havlat, Pavelski, Hertl, 1rst round picks, Burns and Marleau instead.

Squeeven 02-24-2013 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrie22 (Post 60393365)
he's not marleau fast, but he's also not murray slow either.

thornton is like a loaded transport truck, slow to get going but once it gets going it gets moving pretty good and it is impossible to stop.

I'll agree with you there but with him our zone entry is terrible a lot of the time. Sure when we do make a clean entry and have control in the offensive zone he's dangerous but how many times do we see the 'skate over the blue line and curl back so everyone else can catch up'? Too many times in my opinion. Like I said, I'm not saying yes we should, but I'm saying it wouldn't hurt to see what we can get. He's getting old and his value will decrease in a few years, especially if we don't win a cup or come very close.

YouJustGotPavelskied 02-24-2013 05:09 PM

If we trade thornton, we might as well go into full rebuild mode. I think we need a coaching adjustment more to see if we can get him back into a faster-paced transition game.

Barrie22 02-24-2013 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeeven (Post 60393763)
I'll agree with you there but with him our zone entry is terrible a lot of the time. Sure when we do make a clean entry and have control in the offensive zone he's dangerous but how many times do we see the 'skate over the blue line and curl back so everyone else can catch up'? Too many times in my opinion. Like I said, I'm not saying yes we should, but I'm saying it wouldn't hurt to see what we can get. He's getting old and his value will decrease in a few years, especially if we don't win a cup or come very close.

the zone entry is terrible on every line, couture can't do nothing, marleau can't do anything, pavs can barely do anything, boyle can't do anything, 3rd and 4th lines do i really need to say it? lol

with the curling back so every one can catch up isn't a telling point there? what is he supposed to do, go 1 against 2 or 3? with no support?

Fistfullofbeer 02-24-2013 05:11 PM

This is totally dependent on the direction the team wants to go to. Trading Thornton would mean the team is in total rebuild mode. i.e no playoffs for 2-3 years (at least).

On the other hand, you can trade pieces like Pavs, Clowe, Murray to get us some decent picks/prospects. Also, getting a new coach is crucial for us right now.

Reason I am not in favor of trading Thornton is because I feel that he can carry youngsters better than Marleau, Pavs, etc. Will keep us pretty competitive.

Pinkfloyd 02-24-2013 05:12 PM

The only way Thornton is traded is if he requests it. Something would have to come up between him and management for that to happen and it would have to be pretty severe. I don't see that happening with how the organization treats Jumbo.

CommanderShepard15 02-24-2013 05:13 PM

obviously. hes suckedthe last 7 games. And thats what we care about here.

Vaasa 02-24-2013 05:13 PM

Coming as a surprise to no one, since I've been saying it for 2 or 3 years now I think. My answer is "Yes"! Add Boyle, Clowe, and Murray too (at a minimum) while they are at it. :)

TheJuxtaposer 02-24-2013 05:14 PM

Honestly, I'd advocate trading Pavelski right now. He's a square peg on this team right now. He has a ****-ton of value around the league.

Barrie22 02-24-2013 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thLinePlug (Post 60394121)
obviously. hes suckedthe last 7 games. And thats what we care about here.

but so has clowe, marleau, boyle, burns, havlat, vlasic, demers, pavs, braun, 3rd and 4th line outside of a few bright spots every now and a then.

Barrie22 02-24-2013 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer (Post 60394295)
Honestly, I'd advocate trading Pavelski right now. He's a square peg on this team right now. He has a ****-ton of value around the league.

yeah sadly he is, he's not a good enough playmaker, he's not needed in the sniper role on any of the 2 lines. he still gets good pk time, pp time.

its why i have been wanting pavs to move down to the 3rd line, and finally run with 3 scoring lines again. it is not a coincidence that the sharks got the farthest in the playoffs the 2 years we had decent offensive depth and could afford to use one of true top 6 forwards on the 3rd line.

Mafoofoo 02-24-2013 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fistfullofbeer (Post 60394037)
This is totally dependent on the direction the team wants to go to. Trading Thornton would mean the team is in total rebuild mode. i.e no playoffs for 2-3 years (at least).

More like without him we're the NHL's Cleveland Browns. Without Thornton this team is worse than the jackets. We'll then have Couture getting slaughtered by top lines on a daily basis, Marleau being a 40-50 point player at best, Pavs being a 40 point player and all of the tweeners being 4th liners.

Fistfullofbeer 02-24-2013 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer (Post 60394295)
Honestly, I'd advocate trading Pavelski right now. He's a square peg on this team right now. He has a ****-ton of value around the league.

I am totally with you on this. So much of a reversal from last year when both of us were more about keeping Pavs and Marleau and rather trade Jumbo.

If any of the top-line guys need to go my preference is Pavs, Marleau and Jumbo in that order.

SJeasy 02-24-2013 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fistfullofbeer (Post 60394037)
This is totally dependent on the direction the team wants to go to. Trading Thornton would mean the team is in total rebuild mode. i.e no playoffs for 2-3 years (at least).

On the other hand, you can trade pieces like Pavs, Clowe, Murray to get us some decent picks/prospects. Also, getting a new coach is crucial for us right now.

Reason I am not in favor of trading Thornton is because I feel that he can carry youngsters better than Marleau, Pavs, etc. Will keep us pretty competitive.

Bad reason. A rebuild means the youngsters are taking over. Handing them a crutch is not a good thing as they will never learn to dominate on their own. JT's skills are unique and not likely to be passed to another generation. My counter is not a reason to trade him now, but your argument is horrid with regards a real rebuild and as a reason to keep JT. The best argument for keeping him is if he would be gracious in accepting a lesser role like 3c and PP specialist.

The only reason I am on the fence about trading JT now is that the org needs an overhaul in scouting and development until they commit to or accomplish that, wasting a pick is just stupid. Set the direction then fire away with trades. The same reason applies to trading either Marleau or Boyle.

TheJuxtaposer 02-24-2013 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrie22 (Post 60394545)
yeah sadly he is, he's not a good enough playmaker, he's not needed in the sniper role on any of the 2 lines. he still gets good pk time, pp time.

its why i have been wanting pavs to move down to the 3rd line, and finally run with 3 scoring lines again. it is not a coincidence that the sharks got the farthest in the playoffs the 2 years we had decent offensive depth and could afford to use one of true top 6 forwards on the 3rd line.

Sometimes I think about what could be if we had this year's defense and Niemi, and 10-11's forward corps, or at least depth like them. Then I cry.

But I know a lot of teams are in need of a hard minutes #1B center, and with his age and awesome contract Pavs would carry a metric ton of value around the league if he were shopped.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:33 PM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.