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-   -   PP woes all about In-Kompon-tence and Payne? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1359861)

kingsfan 02-25-2013 10:16 AM

PP woes all about In-Kompon-tence and Payne?
 
We were all gald to get rid of Kompon and figured he was holding back the PP.

Now, it has only been 16 games so far, but under Payne we are still sitting 25th in the league on the PP at 14.1% clip.

Last year we were at 17%, good for 17th in the league, and the year before we were 21st at 16.1%. And those years we didn't have Jeff Carter.

Kompon this year meanwhile has the 14th rated powerplay in Chicago at 17.3%

Is it really an issue of coaching for the PP coach, or is there more to it then that, as the style hasn't changed much at all from the Kompon days. I wonder how much impact the Head Coach really has on the matter, as their hasn't been much of a difference between Sutter and Murray in terms of offensive style on many facets even 5-on-5. Where Sutter's really improved over Murray is accountability and harder pressure on the forecheck, resulting in more turnovers, and more drive to the net. But on the powerplay little has changed.

I'm not ready to write things off under Payne yet by any stretch, but the early returns aren't promising, and Payne has Carter to work with, unlike Kompon. Are we going to be stuck with an underachieving powerplay for a while, or is there a light at the end of the tunnel?

driller1 02-25-2013 10:27 AM

We may be at a 14.1% clip, but you need to consider that we started the year 2 for 40 or something like that (5%). Given that we've seen improvement in the last 7 games or so, I'm not as concerned. I think I saw on the last telecast that we were over 20% over the last ~30 PPs

Josh Deitell 02-25-2013 10:53 AM

Payne and the players didn't get a real training camp or exhibition games to teach/learn a new MO so they're basically picking it up on the fly. All things considered I think they're doing fine, it'll take some time.

kingsfan 02-25-2013 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Deitell (Post 60436321)
Payne and the players didn't get a real training camp or exhibition games to teach/learn a new MO so they're basically picking it up on the fly. All things considered I think they're doing fine, it'll take some time.

Good point, and one I didn't consider. Like I said, I'm just wondering about whether or not the blame was all on Kompon for the past PP woes, or beyond that. I'm giving it to the end of the season before making much of a judgment, but I'm getting curious.

KingKopitar11* 02-25-2013 11:13 AM

Our PP is so much better, I don't care about the stat cause we sucked at it first this season but we actually look good now, disregard the stat. We are better now.

The Judge 02-25-2013 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Deitell (Post 60436321)
Payne and the players didn't get a real training camp or exhibition games to teach/learn a new MO so they're basically picking it up on the fly. All things considered I think they're doing fine, it'll take some time.

I agree.

But, it also might be the system that we play. The type of players that can effectively play it are more of big skilled players crashing the net and forechecking than of a finesse, slick skilled players like a Zettelberg/Datsyuk or Sedins. I think that is why we struggle so much on the power play cause we lack those type of players. Plus, we don't have at the point, a pure offensive "D". The last player we had was Vishnovsky. Because Doughty as good as he is is brutal offensively especially at the PP imo.

Chazz Reinhold 02-25-2013 11:43 AM

I don't have exact the numbers right now, but the Kings' power play has been much better percentage-wise since the 0-fer start (obviously). Just visually, though, the movement and shot quality has drastically improved recently. The Kings haven't been receiving many power plays per game, though.

RonSwanson* 02-25-2013 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsfan (Post 60434969)
Kompon this year meanwhile has the 14th rated powerplay in Chicago at 17.3%

Is that supposed to be good? With Chicago's players, I would expect a lot more than middle of the pack.

kingsfan 02-25-2013 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonSwanson (Post 60438365)
Is that supposed to be good? With Chicago's players, I would expect a lot more than middle of the pack.

Honestly, we don't have that much of a drop off in talent from what Chicago has on their PP. Kane-Hossa-Toews-Keith vs. Kopitar-Carter-Richards-Doughty shouldn't be much of a decline. I do agree they should be better than theya re as well, but in terms of underachieving, our level right now is far greater than their's.

RonSwanson* 02-25-2013 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsfan (Post 60438995)
Honestly, we don't have that much of a drop off in talent from what Chicago has on their PP. Kane-Hossa-Toews-Keith vs. Kopitar-Carter-Richards-Doughty shouldn't be much of a decline. I do agree they should be better than theya re as well, but in terms of underachieving, our level right now is far greater than their's.

Sure, but let's be real here and recognize that Kompon sucks as a PP coach. Regardless of how poor the Kings' PP is.

Telos 02-25-2013 12:11 PM

Haven't really had a good sample size for Payne yet. As mentioned, we didn't have a training camp and he was new on the job, so they had to figure our their system in games. At first it looked abysmal, but over time it has been noticeably improving.

Jim Fox has been watching it pretty closely as well and has been mentioning as of late that puck movement is increasing and looking much better now than it was at the start of the year. They have been making better passes and getting better chances with improved angles to the net. If they keep doing what they have been doing these past few games, then those numbers should improve, just like how they did in the standings after that Detroit game.

We haven't had too many opportunities lately either. We need to try and draw more calls, especially against the Ducks.

DaAnimal 02-25-2013 12:40 PM

Agreed. Our PP has improved but we are way too predictable on the passes. One thing that we lack a lot is the creativity part. I personally think that's the biggest difference between our PP and for example St Louis, Caps, Penguins, Ducks, etc etc (Top 5 PP teams).

Ziggy Stardust 02-25-2013 12:51 PM

I blame Doughty, and I'm serious. Look at how the PP worked well during the playoffs when Doughty was getting pucks through on net.

Go back to 2009-10 when Doughty's offensive game was clicking. Since then his numbers have dipped and it's because for some reason he's become more hesitant and resistant to shooting and doesn't make quick decisions with the puck.

IMO, for the PP to get going, the Kings need Doughty to get going. Thus far, the Kings best dman at both ends of the ice has been Voynov. We need to see more of the Doughty who was dominant during the playoffs playing at that level during the regular season.

Whiskeypete 02-25-2013 12:59 PM

skill, is the main difference. all one has to do is to looking at the players shooting %'s. LA for years has had one of the lowest shooting %'s and that comes down to skill. take Carter out of the equation and its difficult to say LA has a top notch goal scorer. i love Kopitar, but dude has not moved into that realm. he is the only one that i could consider being in that 'elite' level.

when you look at a team like CHI that can roll out Hossa, Kane, Sharp and Toews on their #1 - that is A LOT of skill to contend with. Hossa and Kane alone can destroy a team with their shooting ability, then for ***** and giggles add Sharp or Toews on the ice at the same time.

sorry but we don't have that much talent when it comes to pure shooters. the likes of Richards, Brown, JW, etc are usually going to rely more on trash goals, scrums, deflections, etc.

the PP is better and improving. the 0 for 26 start is what is killing the current stat. the movement is improving overall, but still very predictable. i still want Voynov moved onto the #1 full time, the kid has the ability to weave shots through traffic. Doughty imo has regressed on the PP since he first began. takes to long to make a decision - pass, shoot, skate - do something Dewey, but do it faster. his amount of blocked shots from the point are reminding me of JJ up there.

deeshamrock 02-25-2013 01:11 PM

Quote:

I blame Doughty, and I'm serious. Look at how the PP worked well during the playoffs when Doughty was getting pucks through on net.

Go back to 2009-10 when Doughty's offensive game was clicking. Since then his numbers have dipped and it's because for some reason he's become more hesitant and resistant to shooting and doesn't make quick decisions with the puck.

IMO, for the PP to get going, the Kings need Doughty to get going. Thus far, the Kings best dman at both ends of the ice has been Voynov. We need to see more of the Doughty who was dominant during the playoffs playing at that level during the regular season.
That's puzzling to me too, and it is affecting the PP. He hesitates too long. I also likke Richards better on the half wall than Kopi, Richards doesn't telegraph, he's more creative and that keeps the d guessing.
But with Mitchell out, I guess they have to leave Richards at the point and he's good there but I think he's more effective moving it around closer.

I do think the PP is getting better in that the scoring chances are increasing> They need to win those faceoffs, too often they lose the Faceoff and a good 15 seconds chasing the puck back to their own zone.

kingsfan 02-25-2013 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonSwanson (Post 60439065)
Sure, but let's be real here and recognize that Kompon sucks as a PP coach. Regardless of how poor the Kings' PP is.

I'm not debating that. What I'm asking is if the PP woes extend past the coach, meaning that the PP coach is bound to fail to some level, regardless of who it is, because of the players we bring in and system we play 5-on-5. We have the skill level, but thus far not the production to match it and it has spilled over from Kompon to Payne.

That said, I agree with other posters saying it could be due to the lack of a pre-season/training camp, and that we need more of a sample size before validating my question as a yes. As I said, I'm giving it a full regular season before really judging.

kingsfan 02-25-2013 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust (Post 60441633)
I blame Doughty, and I'm serious. Look at how the PP worked well during the playoffs when Doughty was getting pucks through on net.

Not sure if you meant our PP worked well overall or just when Doughty wasn't getting blocked like a basketball by Dikembe Mutombo, but our PP was 12th (of 16 teams) in the playoffs last year at 12.8 per cent, and the only team that was worse that made it past the first round was Nashville. And really, we would have been below them if not for scoring three powerplay goals in game 6 of the finals. I think until that point we were 14th in the playoffs on the PP.

RonSwanson* 02-25-2013 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsfan (Post 60443903)
Not sure if you meant our PP worked well overall or just when Doughty wasn't getting blocked like a basketball by Dikembe Mutombo, but our PP was 12th (of 16 teams) in the playoffs last year at 12.8 per cent, and the only team that was worse that made it past the first round was Nashville. And really, we would have been below them if not for scoring three powerplay goals in game 6 of the finals. I think until that point we were 14th in the playoffs on the PP.

Awesome visual.


kingsfan 02-25-2013 02:01 PM

Haha, that's why I put down Mutombo, I seen that commercial the other day. Made me laugh :D

Knight of the Realm 02-25-2013 03:12 PM

I don't think Kopi and Richards should be on the same unit, one set up man is enough for me. Would like Voynov on the first unit as well, think he has a better shot than Doughty.

johnjm22 02-25-2013 03:34 PM

The Kings had one of the best PP's in the NHL under Kompon in 09-10.

People overate the impact of coaches IMO. Some are good, some are bad, but most of them are just average. Things like the PP ebb and flow. Sometimes it clicks, sometimes it doesn't.

Bad Will Hunting 02-25-2013 03:38 PM

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/2...VX8FOo7F3m.jpg

Break the seam Carts! Break the seam Carts!

bobafettish* 02-25-2013 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust (Post 60441633)
I blame Doughty, and I'm serious. Look at how the PP worked well during the playoffs when Doughty was getting pucks through on net.

Go back to 2009-10 when Doughty's offensive game was clicking. Since then his numbers have dipped and it's because for some reason he's become more hesitant and resistant to shooting and doesn't make quick decisions with the puck.

IMO, for the PP to get going, the Kings need Doughty to get going. Thus far, the Kings best dman at both ends of the ice has been Voynov. We need to see more of the Doughty who was dominant during the playoffs playing at that level during the regular season.

pretty much this.

vv should be getting doughty's minutes on the pp

gonnaneedsomewine 02-25-2013 04:30 PM

I think the puck movement has been getting better and the PP feels like its going to be better than last year. I just think we lack finishers.

Williams and Brown aren't great finishers, Penner won't pay the price in front of the net, Richards and Kopitar are better at setting guys up than finishing. Carter is really the only guy and potentially Gagne.

I wish we had a guy like Byfuglien who could absolute bomb shots from the point or move up to forward on the PP and create havoc with his net front presence like how Quenneville used him when he was in Chicago.

Also think not having a training camp with Payne hurt them a little bit, but given that we are basically icing the same team as last year should hopefully make the transition smoother and quicker.

KINGS17 02-25-2013 05:17 PM

Doughty needs to re-discover that thing called a wrist shot.


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