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Zoo 03-24-2005 08:08 PM

Sabres - Penguins
 
Taylor Pyatt

Looks as though he has fallen out of favor in Buffalo. I change of scenery could do wonders for him. He's got the size,speed and skill to be a big time player in this league but just hasn't got the heart. I've got a feeling Edzo could get the best outta him. And we could use the help on the LW.

Ross Lupaschuck and 3rd round pick

Lupaschuck has been WBS penguins #1 defencemen this season and has rounded out his game. No longer is he a liability on defence and is the QB on the powerplay with a heavy shot. Problem is that he's stuck behind alot of defencemen in pittsburgh and would have to clear waivers to be sent down. 3rd round pick should even up things.

clefty 03-25-2005 01:04 AM

I'd pass.

Firstly, I'd rather be giving ice time to Abid, Surovy, Murley, etc. than Taylor Pyatt. I don't really think we're all that short on the left side, either. Malone, Koltsov, Surovy, Abid, Murley, Pirjeta or even Fata will make up the LW positions on the team, and I know they aren't going to give us a half-assed effort game in game out like Taylor Pyatt.

I'm interested in giving Lupaschuk a chance before trading him.

Zoo 03-25-2005 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clefty
I'd pass.

Firstly, I'd rather be giving ice time to Abid, Surovy, Murley, etc. than Taylor Pyatt. I don't really think we're all that short on the left side, either. Malone, Koltsov, Surovy, Abid, Murley, Pirjeta or even Fata will make up the LW positions on the team, and I know they aren't going to give us a half-assed effort game in game out like Taylor Pyatt.

I'm interested in giving Lupaschuk a chance before trading him.

Only Malone would be ahead of Pyatt. Pyatt would have to battle Koltsov for the second line spot, which I think he would. Koltsov would be better suited to the 3rd line checking line.. until he learns how to finish. And Koltsov can play on the right anyway.

Abid has yet to prove he can stay healthy in a NHL season. And would be better suited to fourth line duty. And move his way up from there..... but there are a few WHAT IF's

As for Pirjeta... you can't even compare the talent between Pirjeta and Pyatt. Pirjeta would be lucky if he was brought back.

Murley is 4th line player 3rd at best..... Pyatt is 1st 2nd line material. Murley could fill in here and there on the fourth line. Look for him to spend another season in WBS.

Surovy like Pyatt needs to find a heart. Problem is Pyatt can get by in the NHL without one unlike Surovy. Pyatt has more tools to work with. Like Murley, Surovy needs another season in WBS.

Malone - Lemieux - Morozov
Pyatt - Kraft - Recchi
Koltsov - Beech - Fata
Abid - Endicott - Armstrong

wedge 03-25-2005 08:56 AM

I really like Pyatt.. I think it would be good for Pittsburgh.

Hi-wayman 03-25-2005 11:05 AM

I see Pyatt as worth more around the league in trade than what Pittsburgh is offering. Secondly, if indeed Pyatt eventually matures into the type of player he was expected to be when drafted, Buffalo would prefer he wasn't in the same conference as they are.

For Pyatt, I could see the Canucks offering Buffalo:

Kirill Koltsov (an offensive/PPQ defenseman I would rate superior to Lupaschuck)
plus Buffalo's choice of:

N Smith (a 1st round pick that is struggling like Pyatt, but who could also still pan out)
or
B Ried (a small, but very skilled & quick forward)

porrylogspop 03-25-2005 11:05 AM

i sat lupachuk and a 4th for pyatt

Chainshot 03-25-2005 12:24 PM

Hmmmm.... looking at it from the Buffalo PoV, I would think they would not be all that interested in a large-framed, righthanded offensive defenseman who hasn't put it all together yet at this point in time. They're still trying to get their own version of that player (Jeff Jillson) to round out his game.

jkflesh 03-25-2005 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-wayman
I see Pyatt as worth more around the league in trade than what Pittsburgh is offering. Secondly, if indeed Pyatt eventually matures into the type of player he was expected to be when drafted, Buffalo would prefer he wasn't in the same conference as they are.

For Pyatt, I could see the Canucks offering Buffalo:

Kirill Koltsov (an offensive/PPQ defenseman I would rate superior to Lupaschuck)
plus Buffalo's choice of:

N Smith (a 1st round pick that is struggling like Pyatt, but who could also still pan out)
or
B Ried (a small, but very skilled & quick forward)

I would take koltsov and ried for pyatt. I really like ried and koltsov has potential. The only problem i see with ried is that i am not sure the sabres need another small forward. I am growing impatient with pyatt. The vancouver proposal is definitely better than the pittsburg one. I would say no to the pitt prop.

DJmastamind 03-25-2005 01:20 PM

I'd take pyatt over Lupaschuck anyday. Good trade IMO for the penguins. Pyatt could take over Koltsov's spot on the 2nd line. then we could dump Pirjeta.

craig1 03-25-2005 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoo
Only Malone would be ahead of Pyatt.

Zoo, Lemieux has been playing LW too. THat's whewre he will play next year. He's made it clear that it's easier on his back since he doesn't take the punishment in the middle. So as of now, Malone is on the 2ns line. This would drop one of KK or Pyatt to the 4th. That would be a waste one way or the other.

RJ8812 03-25-2005 05:05 PM

Pyatt to philly!

mercury 03-26-2005 02:37 AM

I think Pyatt would fit Philly well in theory, but where and with whom is he gonna play?

clefty 03-26-2005 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoo
Only Malone would be ahead of Pyatt. Pyatt would have to battle Koltsov for the second line spot, which I think he would. Koltsov would be better suited to the 3rd line checking line.. until he learns how to finish. And Koltsov can play on the right anyway.

Well, Lemieux is the teams no.1 LW anyway like craig said. And I don't see how Taylor Pyatt is better than Koltsov.

Pyatt is fast, Koltsov is faster. Pyatt is big, Koltsov is grittier. Koltsov's rookie season saw him put up better numbers than Pyatt ever has. Koltsov is a smart, gritty, aggressive SOB, Pyatt has a pea-heart and is Rico Fata-esque at times. IMO, Koltsov has the ability to be one of the best complimentary players in the league.

Quote:

Abid has yet to prove he can stay healthy in a NHL season. And would be better suited to fourth line duty. And move his way up from there..... but there are a few WHAT IF's
But what about the 'what ifs' and uncertainties of Taylor Pyatt?

Quote:

As for Pirjeta... you can't even compare the talent between Pirjeta and Pyatt. Pirjeta would be lucky if he was brought back.
Actually, you can. Pirjeta is the most versatile forward we've got. Good skater, nice offensive instincts, his defense is money, he can fill in pretty much anywhere he's needed and get the job done. Plus he brings a stable, veterans presence.

Quote:

Murley is 4th line player 3rd at best..... Pyatt is 1st 2nd line material. Murley could fill in here and there on the fourth line. Look for him to spend another season in WBS.
Everything he's shown over his career suggests Pyatt is NOT top line material.

Quote:

Surovy like Pyatt needs to find a heart. Problem is Pyatt can get by in the NHL without one unlike Surovy. Pyatt has more tools to work with. Like Murley, Surovy needs another season in WBS.
Surovy is just having an off year, he's a NHL player, no question. He might not begin the season in Wilkes-Barre, but he certainly doesn't need another full year in the minors.

As far as no heart goes, well on the contrary. Surovy is quite the courageous campaigner. He pretty much always does his very best to get on the forecheck, and is willing to take a beating to get his goals.

In regards to Murley, well given the choice I take Matt Murley. But thats just me, I like players who care and who try.

RJ8812 03-26-2005 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercury
I think Pyatt would fit Philly well in theory, but where and with whom is he gonna play?


he'd have to actually use his size, and hit people if he'd want to play in Philly first of all

Zoo 03-26-2005 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clefty
Well, Lemieux is the teams no.1 LW anyway like craig said. And I don't see how Taylor Pyatt is better than Koltsov.

Lemieux can always move back to centre, did that ever cross your mind, something could be said for Malone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by clefty
Pyatt is fast, Koltsov is faster. Pyatt is big, Koltsov is grittier. Koltsov's rookie season saw him put up better numbers than Pyatt ever has. Koltsov is a smart, gritty, aggressive SOB, Pyatt has a pea-heart and is Rico Fata-esque at times. IMO, Koltsov has the ability to be one of the best complimentary players in the league.?.

Thats why I said he is more suited to a 3rd line checking role for the time being. I've got no problem with Koltsov as our second line LW. Just for now he's more suited in that roll. IMO



Quote:

Originally Posted by clefty
But what about the 'what ifs' and uncertainties of Taylor Pyatt?.

I'd take Pyatt's what if over Abid's what if anyday. Pyatt got to much talent, the only thing Abid has over him is heart.


Quote:

Originally Posted by clefty
Actually, you can. Pirjeta is the most versatile forward we've got. Good skater, nice offensive instincts, his defense is money, he can fill in pretty much anywhere he's needed and get the job done. Plus he brings a stable, veterans presence.

Versatile ... Yes.

Veteran.... No

121 games over 3 seasons.... hell he's a veteran allright. :lol

As I said, he'd be lucky if he was brought back.... very lucky.


Quote:

Originally Posted by clefty
Everything he's shown over his career suggests Pyatt is NOT top line material.

True ... but he has the tools not only to be a top line player. But a darn good one at that. He's stuck in Buffalo, playing 3rd and 4th line minutes. But if giving the opportunity under a new club, new system, new coach... he could turn things around. ala... Starka, Lang, Kovalev, Daigle, Bertuzzi I can go on and on.


Quote:

Originally Posted by clefty
Surovy is just having an off year, he's a NHL player, no question. He might not begin the season in Wilkes-Barre, but he certainly doesn't need another full year in the minors.

As far as no heart goes, well on the contrary. Surovy is quite the courageous campaigner. He pretty much always does his very best to get on the forecheck, and is willing to take a beating to get his goals.

Willing to take a beating when he won'ts too. Normaly he just floats up and down his wing. Until someone lights a fire under his ass.

And he will spend another season in WBS... he's stuck behind to much depth. He could get a call up or too, trouble is there are better players ahead of him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by clefty
In regards to Murley, well given the choice I take Matt Murley. But thats just me, I like players who care and who try.

Yes well thats just you.

clefty 03-27-2005 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoo
Lemieux can always move back to centre, did that ever cross your mind, something could be said for Malone.

Malone is way better at the left side than at center. Lemieux isn't suited to center anymore, so no, it didn't cross my mind.


Quote:

Versatile ... Yes.

Veteran.... No

121 games over 3 seasons.... hell he's a veteran allright. :lol
Oh for crying out loud...

He's played over 400 games in the Finnish elite league. How does that not make him a veteran?

And you're laughing at me? Quite ironic.

I'm going to save time by simply saying your assessment of Surovy is just wrong. He doesn't float up and down his wing, he just doesn't.

Quote:

Pyatt got to much talent, the only thing Abid has over him is heart
And offense/skill. Its quite a major attribute to have over someone else, the ability to go out there and play like you have a pair and play like you give a damn.

Zoo 03-27-2005 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clefty
Oh for crying out loud...

He's played over 400 games in the Finnish elite league. How does that not make him a veteran?

There's a big difference between a veteran in the Finnish elite league and the NHL.

Jacob 03-27-2005 02:25 AM

Buffalo gets hosed

clefty 03-27-2005 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoo
There's a big difference between a veteran in the Finnish elite league and the NHL.

Semantics.

SedinFan* 03-27-2005 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clefty
Semantics.

Hooked on Phonics.

burgess1978 03-27-2005 06:27 PM

Pyatt may work well in Pittsburgh but Lupaschuck would probably not interest Buffalo (see earlier Jillson comparison).

Buffalo wants a physical defenseman. So that means Orpik/Whitney. I can't see Pittsburgh parting with either guy.

That said, Buffalo are very deep at forward. I think a PIT 2nd round pick might be enough to get Pyatt (rather than Lupaschuck and a 3rd).

- frees up a Buffalo roster spot
- gives Pyatt a fresh start
- more competition in the Penguins camp

thoughts ...

DJ Spinoza 03-27-2005 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacobv2
Buffalo gets hosed

Agreed. I don't think Buffalo would take this deal. In regards to Jillson, he's marginally better than Lupaschuk at this point anyways.

I'm not sure Pyatt is worth taking the chance on. Maybe if it were a free agent signing, it'd be different. I don't know if it's wise to spend assets like picks in acquiring him, although here it would be fine from my PoV, but I don't think it's an even swap.

CRUNK JUICE 03-28-2005 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clefty
Well, Lemieux is the teams no.1 LW anyway like craig said. And I don't see how Taylor Pyatt is better than Koltsov.
Pyatt is fast, Koltsov is faster. Pyatt is big, Koltsov is grittier. Koltsov's rookie season saw him put up better numbers than Pyatt ever has. Koltsov is a smart, gritty, aggressive SOB, Pyatt has a pea-heart and is Rico Fata-esque at times. IMO, Koltsov has the ability to be one of the best complimentary players in the league.
But what about the 'what ifs' and uncertainties of Taylor Pyatt?
Actually, you can. Pirjeta is the most versatile forward we've got. Good skater, nice offensive instincts, his defense is money, he can fill in pretty much anywhere he's needed and get the job done. Plus he brings a stable, veterans presence.
Everything he's shown over his career suggests Pyatt is NOT top line material.
Surovy is just having an off year, he's a NHL player, no question. He might not begin the season in Wilkes-Barre, but he certainly doesn't need another full year in the minors.
As far as no heart goes, well on the contrary. Surovy is quite the courageous campaigner. He pretty much always does his very best to get on the forecheck, and is willing to take a beating to get his goals.
In regards to Murley, well given the choice I take Matt Murley. But thats just me, I like players who care and who try.

No offense to Zoo, but Clefty just laid out some serious smackdown. And I have to agree with pretty much all of it, except the last bit about Surovy. I think he seemed a little disinterested for the first 50 or so games in WBS, and is finally starting to show us the player he really is. I think he was upset about not being in the NHL, where I think most of us can agree he belonged this year, but his competitive instinct eventually won out and now he's starting to play like a madman again. His drive was what struck me most about him when watching him play in the big show last year.

As for Pyatt, I think he's on up there with some of the most overrated names here at HFBoards. I'd rather keep Lupaschuk and see how he turns out. He and Whitney have a chance to be extremely intimidating on the powerplay in a few years. Imagine them and Tarnstrom-JAckman forming the points on our PP in a few years. Just devastating.

CRUNK JUICE 03-28-2005 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burgess1978
Pyatt may work well in Pittsburgh but Lupaschuck would probably not interest Buffalo (see earlier Jillson comparison).

Buffalo wants a physical defenseman. So that means Orpik/Whitney. I can't see Pittsburgh parting with either guy.

That said, Buffalo are very deep at forward. I think a PIT 2nd round pick might be enough to get Pyatt (rather than Lupaschuck and a 3rd).

- frees up a Buffalo roster spot
- gives Pyatt a fresh start
- more competition in the Penguins camp

thoughts ...


That's probably the most realistic offer in the thread, but frankly, with the job our scouting has been doing lately, I'd rather keep the pick, especially since it's likely to be a high one.

Mat 03-28-2005 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-wayman
I see Pyatt as worth more around the league in trade than what Pittsburgh is offering. Secondly, if indeed Pyatt eventually matures into the type of player he was expected to be when drafted, Buffalo would prefer he wasn't in the same conference as they are.

For Pyatt, I could see the Canucks offering Buffalo:

Kirill Koltsov (an offensive/PPQ defenseman I would rate superior to Lupaschuck)
plus Buffalo's choice of:

N Smith (a 1st round pick that is struggling like Pyatt, but who could also still pan out)
or
B Ried (a small, but very skilled & quick forward)

i dont see them throwing in ried in that deal


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