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-   -   Carlyle is stubborn as Burke (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1362209)

fahad203 02-27-2013 09:18 PM

Carlyle is stubborn as Burke
 
First of all, this is not a rant. An observation. Also this has nothing to do with tonight's game. I been meaning to discuss this, figured this is a good time as any. Personally, I really like his coaching.

He seems to have a personal vendetta against certain players and favours certain others. Some players like Komiserak and Liles can do no right, they are in the press box while players like Kostka and Holzer can do no wrong.

Most coaches, even Babcok, Brudreu they do their best to keep rotating players so they stay in game shape. I know we have a surplus of Ds, but you have to bring them into the game sometime.

We need skaters against good skating team, why Liles a healthy scratch is beyond me.

Anth93 02-27-2013 09:24 PM

I have two issues with Carlyle.

A) Playing goons with stars. Orr with Kadri is one of the most nonsensical coaching decisions I have ever seen.

B) Down by 2 goals? Keep Orr with Kadri rather than trying skill with skill (JVR-Kadri-Kessel).

Who are we kidding if we think that line can't get it done defensively? A line with Kessel will NEVER get it done defensively.

LeafOfBread 02-27-2013 09:26 PM

I've noticed his stubbornness too and it irritates me. Very good coach and I'm happy he's here, but he refuses to make line-up changes and it aggravates me.

It doesn't take much to see that Holzer has been terrible these past few games, and Kostka on the PP should never be happening. It's also easy to see that this team has been having lots of trouble breaking out of their own zone and gets heavily outshot almost every game and has been outcycled by teams like Ottawa and Montreal.

A change needs to be made, and Carlyle has to live with the fact that he's going to be sacrificing grit for speed and skill. I'm pretty sure Gardiner for Holzer is a pretty good trade-off at this point.

TMLife 02-27-2013 09:29 PM

Komi isn't playing because we don't want him injured so we can buy him out

fahad203 02-27-2013 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anth93 (Post 60621553)
I have two issues with Carlyle.

A) Playing goons with stars. Orr with Kadri is one of the most nonsensical coaching decisions I have ever seen.

B) Down by 2 goals? Keep Orr with Kadri rather than trying skill with skill (JVR-Kadri-Kessel).

Who are we kidding if we think that line can't get it done defensively? A line with Kessel will NEVER get it done defensively.

I really don't understand logic behind this. I love Orr, but Orr cannot and should not play more than 7 mins a game. Especially when we are down by a goal.

What's the harm in trying different lines? You know Kadri has the hot hands, good play maker, and Kessel needs a good play maker, I thought it was a no brainer.

I like Kostka, I hope he hands around, but not in the expense of Liles and Komi. I really think Liles could have made a significant difference tonight.

skacore 02-27-2013 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anth93 (Post 60621553)
I have two issues with Carlyle.

A) Playing goons with stars. Orr with Kadri is one of the most nonsensical coaching decisions I have ever seen.

B) Down by 2 goals? Keep Orr with Kadri rather than trying skill with skill (JVR-Kadri-Kessel).

Who are we kidding if we think that line can't get it done defensively? A line with Kessel will NEVER get it done defensively.

Orr/Kadri/Mac was +1 and (once again) one of our best lines... the line works. Kadri needs the puck to be offensive, Orr makes room for him to do that. Not the typical bullsh*t "he makes room for other players", no. Orr ACTUALLY creates room on the ice to play, he's a bull and there's always a man tied up with him. If anyone is out of sync on that line it's Mac, he's missed a lot of passes by Kadri they just seem to be on different schedules. If they ever start clicking, that line will be even more effective.

fahad203 02-27-2013 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptimusForever (Post 60622119)
Komi isn't playing because we don't want him injured so we can buy him out

Ok fair, I'll buy that. Then man up, do the right thing and send him home. That way he gets to be with his family, we get a space for another player.

The Apologist 02-27-2013 09:33 PM

I love have whole 'it's not because of this game, I've been meaning to discuss this' yet of course, they only appear after a loss...

Anth93 02-27-2013 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skacore (Post 60622371)
Orr/Kadri/Mac was +1 and (once again) one of our best lines... the line works. Kadri needs the puck to be offensive, Orr makes room for him to do that. Not the typical bullsh*t "he makes room for other players", no. Orr ACTUALLY creates room on the ice to play, he's a bull and there's always a man tied up with him. If anyone is out of sync on that line it's Mac, he's missed a lot of passes by Kadri they just seem to be on different schedules. If they ever start clicking, that line will be even more effective.

I'm sorry but, no.

When Kadri and Mac start playing with Frattin or Lupul, you'll see what I mean.

Antropovsky 02-27-2013 09:35 PM

Pretty simple, unless you have one of the top 5 goalies in the NHL, and intend to let in less than 2 goals per game, and not allow more than 25 shots per game... you absolutely cannot have Brown/Orr/McLaren in your lineup all at once.

Take 2, no more.

fahad203 02-27-2013 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie (Post 60622561)
I love have whole 'it's not because of this game, I've been meaning to discuss this' yet of course, they only appear after a loss...

If you don't like the approach or the thread. Your more than welcome not to contribute. But thanks for stopping by and making that smart comment.

Suntouchable13 02-27-2013 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skacore (Post 60622371)
Orr/Kadri/Mac was +1 and (once again) one of our best lines... the line works. Kadri needs the puck to be offensive, Orr makes room for him to do that. Not the typical bullsh*t "he makes room for other players", no. Orr ACTUALLY creates room on the ice to play, he's a bull and there's always a man tied up with him. If anyone is out of sync on that line it's Mac, he's missed a lot of passes by Kadri they just seem to be on different schedules. If they ever start clicking, that line will be even more effective.

Yes, but Orr can't handle the puck for Christ's sakes. His lack of skill negates his asset of creating room for Kadri. As soon as Frattin comes back, he will back with Kadri and Orr will be dropped back down. I hope.

rdawg1234 02-27-2013 09:36 PM

I wouldn't worry, when Frattin and Lupul come back we'll probably only be keeping one of those guys.

That's alot of skill missing from our lineup, so when we cant play the hard hitting game, we're not as good of a matchup against teams.

I'm not worried, our slightly better #1G is back, a great goal scorer is back soon(frattin) and then lupul soon after that.

KPower 02-27-2013 09:37 PM

Hilarious.

Yesterday he was best coach ever, today he is stubborn.

Never fails on hfboards.

Hawaiinleaf 02-27-2013 09:39 PM

Seriously Kabob or Fayob

One game and your all nutty

Were good...

fahad203 02-27-2013 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KPower (Post 60622955)
Hilarious.

Yesterday he was best coach ever, today he is stubborn.

Never fails on hfboards.

Stubborn doesn't mean he's a bad coach. I still think he's the best coach we had since Pat Quinn.

Koolboss 02-27-2013 09:40 PM

I agree he is stubborn

Kimota 02-27-2013 09:41 PM

I actually think he should have played Orr more. When it became 2-2, Carlyle played Orr fare less even though gritt is something the Habs can't match with. Sure Habs had more shots but it's 2-2. And usualy a non-gritty team have far less juice in the third period when they are outhit cause they are hurt. And mentaly it takes its toll.

TMLife 02-27-2013 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fahad203 (Post 60622459)
Ok fair, I'll buy that. Then man up, do the right thing and send him home. That way he gets to be with his family, we get a space for another player.

And what Komi sits on the couch for 8 months? We're not some **** organization, we wouldn't throw Komi out like that. They want him practicing and staying in shape to give him every opportunity to succeed at his next destination.

fahad203 02-27-2013 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptimusForever (Post 60623405)
And what Komi sits on the couch for 8 months? We're not some **** organization, we wouldn't throw Komi out like that. They want him practicing and staying in shape to give him every opportunity to succeed at his next destination.



Actually if you cared for that then you do send him. That way he can do what Gomez and Redden did, sign with another team. If your a class organization isn't that what you would do?

Why take a space?

we both know that's not the reason. He's not getting bought out any time soon. Carly just doesn't have confidence in him.

Guy Boucher 02-27-2013 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fahad203 (Post 60620953)
First of all, this is not a rant. An observation. Also this has nothing to do with tonight's game. I been meaning to discuss this, figured this is a good time as any. Personally, I really like his coaching.

He seems to have a personal vendetta against certain players and favours certain others. Some players like Komiserak and Liles can do no right, they are in the press box while players like Kostka and Holzer can do no wrong.

Most coaches, even Babcok, Brudreu they do their best to keep rotating players so they stay in game shape. I know we have a surplus of Ds, but you have to bring them into the game sometime.

We need skaters against good skating team, why Liles a healthy scratch is beyond me.


What you have to understand is that philosophically, Carlyle does not want to play a LH defender on the right side. You can't argue with facts. Look how much stronger Phanuef looks on the left side.

That means, Komisarek is competing against Holzer, Kostka and Franson.

Liles is competing against Gunnarsson, Phanuef and Fraser.

Komisarek is too slow. Even though Holzer has had a couple of bad games (today in particular), he's much faster than Komisarek, owns much better hands, and brings the same grit and toughness.

Furthermore, Komisarek is going to be bought-out at the end of the year. What's the use in playing/developing him? It makes more sense to integrate Holzer in the team.

As for Liles, well, Gunnarsson is much better.

That's why this team needs to trade for a good RH defender to play big minutes and bump Holzer a bit down in the line-up


As for Orr playing with Kadri - yes that is a stupid decision. But every coach makes stupid decisions...including the best coaches. We just have to live with it until Frattin/Lupul are ready to return.

XanderCell 02-27-2013 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anth93 (Post 60621553)
I have two issues with Carlyle.

A) Playing goons with stars. Orr with Kadri is one of the most nonsensical coaching decisions I have ever seen.

B) Down by 2 goals? Keep Orr with Kadri rather than trying skill with skill (JVR-Kadri-Kessel).

Who are we kidding if we think that line can't get it done defensively? A line with Kessel will NEVER get it done defensively.

agree wholeheartedly, this drive me nuts we need offence and orr is out there with kadri, why can't he just replace kadri with bozak one game and see if kadri can spark kessel and JVR with his playmaking.

skacore 02-27-2013 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anth93 (Post 60622579)
I'm sorry but, no.

When Kadri and Mac start playing with Frattin or Lupul, you'll see what I mean.

Ok... add Frattin or Lupul on any line and you'll get increased production, lol. It's called making due with what we got

Stephen 02-27-2013 09:52 PM

Gardiner needs to be up. Holzer, Fraser and possibly Kostka just represent a massive disadvantage in skills and overabundance of muscle when we have perfectly excellent NHL talent just being wasted away. Keep them and use them, but in moderation.

Also, a goon line is nice and all as a luxury when you're on a big winning streak, but at some point there's a kind of redundancy that is probably not needed there if they aren't going to be going balls to the wall every night. Nothing like a goon who suddenly has job security to make you roll your eyes.

pooleboy 02-27-2013 09:52 PM

lol komi sucks... thats why he isn't playing


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