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-   -   Line Combos: Would the Bruins ever consider: Kelly-Bergeron-Peverley? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1362603)

Bill Ladd 02-28-2013 08:42 AM

Would the Bruins ever consider: Kelly-Bergeron-Peverley?
 
I assume this will be frowned upon, but let me make my case before you make up your mind...

A: Defensive Adjustments
Last year against Washington, Julien kept subbing in defensive specialists for Seguin (i.e. Kelly or Peverley). The in-game line shuffling, Dzone starts and reduced ice time eventually led to Julien moving Seguin to Krejci's RW. Kelly also gave that line a LH option on Dzone faceoffs. Seguin has improved defensively but he's not at the level of a guy like Kelly, who's literally in the league because of his defensive acumen (and no matter how good Seguin gets, he can't help with those LH face-offs). Julien has made this adjustment a few times in close games this season as well, so even with Seguin's improved play, I'd expect it to continue into the playoffs.

B: Seguin at Center
This was touched on by a few people in the 'Seguin Defensive Appreciation' thread. The kid has really looked strong when he's rotated into the role of center this season. He's made plays in front of his own net, won battles, won 54% of his draws (albeit a small sample size) and he absolutely EXPLODES out of his own zone on breakouts. He's also really seeing the ice well and making plays.

I understand you don't want to mess with something that's working well right now, and with Chris Bourque not really producing maybe you don't have the horses to roll 3 scoring lines today, but Bourque may not be the only option a month from now...

C: Deadline Acquisitions
Chiarelli seems to be looking for a legit top6 forward; Briere, Alfredsson, and so on. If he succeeds in acquiring a player like that, then they'd have the depth to create a formidable 2nd offensive line around Marchand, Seguin and the New Guy. Imagine a rejuvenated Iginla in that role :amazed:, or even a Ryan Clowe type who will bang bodies and get to the front of the net.

And if the tipping point for a successful Kelly-Peverley line was a player at least as good as Ryder, imagine what they could do with Patrice Bergeron. That could be the best two-way line in the league.

Lucic-Krejci-Horton
Marsh-Seguin-NewGuy
Kelly-Bergeron-Peverley
Paille-Campbell-Thornton


Possible Issues
Is there enough ice time to roll a lineup like that?
Does it hurt the team to have Bergeron playing with less talented offensive players?
At what point (when you're playing well as-is) do you shuffle the deck to try a lineup like that?
Is it fair to Bergeron?

DKH 02-28-2013 08:47 AM

I like your idea- but the Bergeron right now has been fantastic; also, Seguin to me is still a great homerun threat on the wing and can back defenses up.

Spooner would be my choice, and leave Seguin and Marchand on the wings...not sure he's ready but he's got upper level offensive skills, and his overall three zone game is supposedly coming along in the AHL.

yes, I like it but I wouldn't want to fix whats not broken.

Pie O My 02-28-2013 08:48 AM

Bill you're on a roll with interesting threads.

I don't think the Bruins, or Bergy, would have a problem with it. This forum though.....:dunno:

WhiteMandingo 02-28-2013 08:51 AM

If we aquired a guy like Weiss. I like Seguin on the wing and if it didn't work out we could just swap him and Bergy.

11MilesPerJohan 02-28-2013 08:53 AM

Someone on here called me "stupid" last week for suggesting the same thing. I think it makes a lot of sense, and you outline those reasons.

For me, it is dependent on the Bruins getting a legit "top 6" player at or before the deadline. I wouldn't move Bergy down there for just anyone, but if you acquire someone that you feel can play with Seguin, it makes some sense to make two dynamic offensive lines, and then have your third line be arguably the best shut-down line in the league. And by the way, that line, with Bergy as a part of it, wouldn't be any slouch on offense either.

I think people think of it as a demotion for Bergy, but the guy would still see a ton of minutes, as he would be matching up with the other team's top line, and you are putting him in a position where he excels. You also get to put Seguin in a position where he excels, at center, and on a line where he can focus on offense, not completely mind you, but perhaps more so than he is doing now.

Therick67 02-28-2013 08:56 AM

Add Iginla, drop Flouder and give this a try, why not?

11MilesPerJohan 02-28-2013 09:02 AM

The other part to this that I want to add is that, though some of us might think it is a good idea, I do wonder if it is something that Claude would do. I'm not sure if it is in his MO or not to make major adjustments, especially when core players are involved. I'm not sure if it is a move he makes right away. Whoever it is that the Bruins acquire, may have to prove themselves first on that third line, and then maybe you make the move depending on how everything works out. I'm not sure how he would handle it to be honest, but it is something to consider.

BadBruins 02-28-2013 09:08 AM

I'm open for trying Seguin in the middle, but I'd keep Bergeron and Marchand together. Those two haven't stopped producing since they've been together. There's more actual chemistry there than there is anywhere else in the lineup IMO.

Kiss My Rask 02-28-2013 09:17 AM

I liked when the bruins ran Savard-Bergy-Krejci in 08-09. I would be all for this.

LKH
March - Seguin - Briere/Alfy/etc
Kelly - Bergy - Pevs
Merlot

Allows three lines that can score like CJ likes (or at least gives the 3rd the appropriate ice time for it) Those defensive studs line up against the top lines of other teams. Sign me up

Jack Donaghy 02-28-2013 09:22 AM

I guess it depends on who we have as the new guy. Briere has a rep for being pretty poor defensively. Marchand is pretty good in that department. Seguin has a long way to go, but as you pointed out, he has been getting a little better.
If we get Alfredsson (probably who I want most of all rumored/suggested additions), I would be a lot more comfortable with it.

I still think Marchand-Kelly-Peverley would be good. It seems like a demotion to our leading goal scorer but I think it would be great.

Lucic-Krejci-Horton
Alfredsson-Bergeron-Seguin
Marchand-Kelly-Peverley

Of course, I don't know who would be gone in any of these deals but I like that lineup. You could also put Marchand up with Krejci and drop Horton or Lucic down. Many options...

Roll 4 Lines 02-28-2013 09:24 AM

Love this thread! This is a big reason why I love these boards.

If they bring in a ligit top 6 forward, good enough to allow Bergy to play with Pevs and Kelly, they'll be carrying one of these:

:stanley:

WBC8 02-28-2013 09:34 AM

Could swear I read something where Bergeron only went three years with the Bruins because of his limited offensive role (playing with less then ideal wingers)... He's not happy with being a "third line guy"...

ODAAT 02-28-2013 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pie O My (Post 60642289)
Bill you're on a roll with interesting threads.

I don't think the Bruins, or Bergy, would have a problem with it. This forum though.....:dunno:

Agreed, especially since Bill neglected to produce a lineup with McGratton in it??:sarcasm:;)

Kaoz 02-28-2013 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ladd (Post 60642161)
I assume this will be frowned upon, but let me make my case before you make up your mind...

A: Defensive Adjustments
Last year against Washington, Julien kept subbing in defensive specialists for Seguin (i.e. Kelly or Peverley). The in-game line shuffling, Dzone starts and reduced ice time eventually led to Julien moving Seguin to Krejci's RW. Kelly also gave that line a LH option on Dzone faceoffs. Seguin has improved defensively but he's not at the level of a guy like Kelly, who's literally in the league because of his defensive acumen (and no matter how good Seguin gets, he can't help with those LH face-offs). Julien has made this adjustment a few times in close games this season as well, so even with Seguin's improved play, I'd expect it to continue into the playoffs.

B: Seguin at Center
This was touched on by a few people in the 'Seguin Defensive Appreciation' thread. The kid has really looked strong when he's rotated into the role of center this season. He's made plays in front of his own net, won battles, won 54% of his draws (albeit a small sample size) and he absolutely EXPLODES out of his own zone on breakouts. He's also really seeing the ice well and making plays.

I understand you don't want to mess with something that's working well right now, and with Chris Bourque not really producing maybe you don't have the horses to roll 3 scoring lines today, but Bourque may not be the only option a month from now...

C: Deadline Acquisitions
Chiarelli seems to be looking for a legit top6 forward; Briere, Alfredsson, and so on. If he succeeds in acquiring a player like that, then they'd have the depth to create a formidable 2nd offensive line around Marchand, Seguin and the New Guy. Imagine a rejuvenated Iginla in that role :amazed:, or even a Ryan Clowe type who will bang bodies and get to the front of the net.

And if the tipping point for a successful Kelly-Peverley line was a player at least as good as Ryder, imagine what they could do with Patrice Bergeron. That could be the best two-way line in the league.

Lucic-Krejci-Horton
Marsh-Seguin-NewGuy
Kelly-Bergeron-Peverley
Paille-Campbell-Thornton


Possible Issues
Is there enough ice time to roll a lineup like that?
Does it hurt the team to have Bergeron playing with less talented offensive players?
At what point (when you're playing well as-is) do you shuffle the deck to try a lineup like that?
Is it fair to Bergeron?

Very solid.

This teams success in the playoffs came because there were 4 lines firing on all cylinders. Last year with the loss of Horton that wasn't a possibility and it resulted in an early exit. What you've outlined here provides exactly that once again with even more flexibility.

Boston is playing well but Chiarelli is still looking to improve, so that should answer the question of tweaking the roster. In your scenario, the worst possibility is Seguin doesn't work out at center and you move him back to Bergeron's wing and the new guy to the third line as an upgrade on Bourque (who becomes your 13th forward). That's a fairly low risk gamble.

As I mentioned in the other thread I can't see the interest in a guy like Briere honestly, too much money and doesn't exactly play a style conducive to the Bruins system. Alfredsson would be solid imo, Iginla even more so though unrealistic imo. There are a few other FA's out there that might fit the bill as well (Elias, Jagr, Whitney (my personal choice), Zubrus, Antropov, etc...). Lots of choices to make it happen imo.

Schalkenullvier* 02-28-2013 10:07 AM

The ice time is an issue. If you let the line out against opposing top lines, you suddenly have kelly and pevs playing the most forward minutes. Not sure I want that.

ODAAT 02-28-2013 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ladd (Post 60642161)
I assume this will be frowned upon, but let me make my case before you make up your mind...

A: Defensive Adjustments
Last year against Washington, Julien kept subbing in defensive specialists for Seguin (i.e. Kelly or Peverley). The in-game line shuffling, Dzone starts and reduced ice time eventually led to Julien moving Seguin to Krejci's RW. Kelly also gave that line a LH option on Dzone faceoffs. Seguin has improved defensively but he's not at the level of a guy like Kelly, who's literally in the league because of his defensive acumen (and no matter how good Seguin gets, he can't help with those LH face-offs). Julien has made this adjustment a few times in close games this season as well, so even with Seguin's improved play, I'd expect it to continue into the playoffs.

B: Seguin at Center
This was touched on by a few people in the 'Seguin Defensive Appreciation' thread. The kid has really looked strong when he's rotated into the role of center this season. He's made plays in front of his own net, won battles, won 54% of his draws (albeit a small sample size) and he absolutely EXPLODES out of his own zone on breakouts. He's also really seeing the ice well and making plays.

I understand you don't want to mess with something that's working well right now, and with Chris Bourque not really producing maybe you don't have the horses to roll 3 scoring lines today, but Bourque may not be the only option a month from now...

C: Deadline Acquisitions
Chiarelli seems to be looking for a legit top6 forward; Briere, Alfredsson, and so on. If he succeeds in acquiring a player like that, then they'd have the depth to create a formidable 2nd offensive line around Marchand, Seguin and the New Guy. Imagine a rejuvenated Iginla in that role :amazed:, or even a Ryan Clowe type who will bang bodies and get to the front of the net.

And if the tipping point for a successful Kelly-Peverley line was a player at least as good as Ryder, imagine what they could do with Patrice Bergeron. That could be the best two-way line in the league.

Lucic-Krejci-Horton
Marsh-Seguin-NewGuy
Kelly-Bergeron-Peverley
Paille-Campbell-Thornton


Possible Issues
Is there enough ice time to roll a lineup like that?
Does it hurt the team to have Bergeron playing with less talented offensive players?
At what point (when you're playing well as-is) do you shuffle the deck to try a lineup like that?
Is it fair to Bergeron?

Upon first glance ya had me, zipped over to the B`s site wondering who this "NewGuy" was............not enough coffee clearly

ODAAT 02-28-2013 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schalkenullvier (Post 60645169)
The ice time is an issue. If you let the line out against opposing top lines, you suddenly have kelly and pevs playing the most forward minutes. Not sure I want that.

But you also have 3 Bruin lines who can hurt you, and I`ll wager there isn`t a team out there who can stop 3 lines

Bill Ladd 02-28-2013 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKH (Post 60642269)
I like your idea- but the Bergeron right now has been fantastic; also, Seguin to me is still a great homerun threat on the wing and can back defenses up.

Spooner would be my choice, and leave Seguin and Marchand on the wings...not sure he's ready but he's got upper level offensive skills, and his overall three zone game is supposedly coming along in the AHL.

yes, I like it but I wouldn't want to fix whats not broken.

It has been good and I'm definitely not saying they should make this change today. But if they get the kind of player Chiarelli's been rumored to be after, then I think things get interesting because a guy like Briere is obviously better suited to a top6 role, which begs the question: Who goes down? Who would be the best suited to play with Kells and Perv?

That said, it definitely would be easier to make this kind of move with a guy like Spooner because there would be no confusion/debate/hurt feelings over who the "3rd" center is. Although I would think they'd want Spooner to play out the rest of this season and playoffs in Providence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pie O My (Post 60642289)
Bill you're on a roll with interesting threads.

I don't think the Bruins, or Bergy, would have a problem with it. This forum though.....:dunno:

Thanks.

reidy 02-28-2013 10:13 AM

Am I the only one who considers this line an offensive black hole? Would be a phenomenal shutdown option but I don't think I'd ever want to see this line skating a regular shift...

Edit: if the B's could add another top six guy then yes, I'd be all for it.

Therick67 02-28-2013 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reidy (Post 60645443)
Am I the only one who considers this line an offensive black hole? Would be a phenomenal shutdown option but I don't think I'd ever want to see this line skating a regular shift...

Edit: if the B's could add another top six guy then yes, I'd be all for it.

You'd have 2 lines that could score, a line that could shut down the other teams best unit and the 4th to go out and bang.

Bill Ladd 02-28-2013 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 (Post 60643843)
Could swear I read something where Bergeron only went three years with the Bruins because of his limited offensive role (playing with less then ideal wingers)... He's not happy with being a "third line guy"...

That's the problem with being one of the best defensive forwards in the game- they're going to lean on you for every critical Dzone situation. Like it or not, that means he's going to see some shifts with other strong face-off/PK types in Kelly and Peverley. Granted there's a big difference between starting some shifts with defensive players and starting the game with them on your line.

Fwiw, I've also seen that claim refuted (with a link).

reidy 02-28-2013 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therick67 (Post 60645699)
You'd have 2 lines that could score, a line that could shut down the other teams best unit and the 4th to go out and bang.

Assuming you can get a top six forward without sacrificing anything from the current roster, then yes. Which is what my edit alludes to.

Bill Ladd 02-28-2013 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reidy (Post 60645443)
Am I the only one who considers this line an offensive black hole? Would be a phenomenal shutdown option but I don't think I'd ever want to see this line skating a regular shift...

Edit: if the B's could add another top six guy then yes, I'd be all for it.

That line (Kelly/Peverley/+) wasn't a black hole offensively with Ryder, Rolston or even Pouliot.

Peverley scored at a 61 point pace last year. Kelly had 20 goals. I'd think they could be even better with a player like Bergeron driving the bus.

Bill Ladd 02-28-2013 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schalkenullvier (Post 60645169)
The ice time is an issue. If you let the line out against opposing top lines, you suddenly have kelly and pevs playing the most forward minutes. Not sure I want that.

It's a fair point, but the Bergeron line plays a lot against top lines now and it's actually the Krejci line that consistently gets the most even strength TOI- even in the playoffs. The difference between Bergeron's ES TOI as the so-called 2c and Kelly's ES TOI as the so-called 3c is only about :40 seconds a game.

nmbr_24 02-28-2013 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ladd (Post 60645327)
It has been good and I'm definitely not saying they should make this change today. But if they get the kind of player Chiarelli's been rumored to be after, then I think things get interesting because a guy like Briere is obviously better suited to a top6 role, which begs the question: Who goes down? Who would be the best suited to play with Kells and Perv?

That said, it definitely would be easier to make this kind of move with a guy like Spooner because there would be no confusion/debate/hurt feelings over who the "3rd" center is. Although I would think they'd want Spooner to play out the rest of this season and playoffs in Providence.



Thanks.

I wonder if the Bruins actually did acquire someone like Briere if they would choose to look at the lines as being based on a pair of guys.

Also I wonder if they are considering moving Seguin to center and this new acquisition whoever it would be, would then be Seguin's partner.

If they were paired up like this:

Lucic-Krejci
Marchand-Bergeron
New guy-Seguin

They could then kind of mix and match with the other guys, whatever works the best.

That is a pretty big change to the team so they need time to figure out what is going to work best, if they are going to do something like that, I hope they do it soon.


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