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-   -   Proposal: Detroit/Edmonton (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1363553)

wingfan 03-01-2013 09:12 AM

Detroit/Edmonton
 
To Detroit:
Ales Hemsky

To Edmonton:
Ian White
Riley Sheahan
2013 2nd

What do you guys think, value wise? Edmonton gets a veteran puck mover who has been playing solid hockey, but has fallen out of Babcock's good graces, a talented/sizable power forward prospect with top 6 potential, and a 2nd rounder in a deep draft. Detroit gets a solid vet winger to bolster an injury plagued top 6. I've heard Hemsky and Weiss thrown around so much for Detroit over the past few seasons, I think I'd prefer Hemsky though.

jayhamm 03-01-2013 09:14 AM

Take out the 2nd and it looks good.

Seachd 03-01-2013 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayhamm (Post 60727887)
Take out the 2nd and it looks good.

I'd bet you could add another 2nd and Edmonton wouldn't like it.

MPStoEberletoHall* 03-01-2013 09:24 AM

No thanks for the Oilers. This does not make them a better team

jameswrjobe53 03-01-2013 09:38 AM

This was literally the offer from Detroit for Mike Green

wingfan 03-01-2013 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MPStoEberletoHall (Post 60728287)
No thanks for the Oilers. This does not make them a better team

This is what I really don't understand. You guys aren't a playoff team right now, let alone a cup contender. You guys want to trade no futures for anything short of the stars, and one of the few liquid assets you do have necessitates a 1st+. I addressed all of your issues(solid vet 2 way defender to bolster a POROUS defense, power forward center who would be in your lineup right now, 2nd round pick in one of the "deepest drafts in ages") and it's not good enough? Care to counter propose or just shoot down other's offers?

Kulleroinen* 03-01-2013 10:04 AM

Hemsky is going some time and red wings is the team which I would like him to join.

But I don't want White. Sheahan is something we could use, but I don't see him being good enough yet.

OiledUp 03-01-2013 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingfan (Post 60729035)
This is what I really don't understand. You guys aren't a playoff team right now, let alone a cup contender. You guys want to trade no futures for anything short of the stars, and one of the few liquid assets you do have necessitates a 1st+. I addressed all of your issues(solid vet 2 way defender to bolster a POROUS defense, power forward center who would be in your lineup right now, 2nd round pick in one of the "deepest drafts in ages") and it's not good enough? Care to counter propose or just shoot down other's offers?

How would this adress all of our issues? An ok d-man but not really the top 4 guy we need. A center who could turn out good but still hasn't proven anything at the NHL level. And finally a 2nd round pick which could turn into an ok player, but second rounders are far from safe picks and usually takes their time to develop and while being far from win-now mode we're not in collecting picks-mode.

I like Sheehan and wouldn't mind him in another trade, but the trade you suggest for our top scorer doesn't really get us anywhere imo.

It's always tricky to speculate in a players' value, but a skilled player like Hemsky should be able to fetch better value, especially around deadline considering quite a few possible playoff teams are struggling offensively and on the PP.
The Oilers aren't desperate to trade Hemsky, we're not hoping for a deep playoff run, so we can wait for a slight overpayment and since there are a bunch of teams in need of skill, there's a pretty good chance for that to happen.

If he's not traded at the deadline he has one year left on his contract, we can trade him during the summer, trade him as a rental the following season or resign him, it's not like he's hurting the team even though I think for the team going forward a trade is our best bet. The Oilers are in a pretty strong position with Hemsky now that he's finally healthy.

We're also fine for cap and in the standings we're pretty much where we should be so we don't have to seek out trades despite what some of my fellow Oiler fans might think.

wingfan 03-01-2013 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OiledUp (Post 60730385)
How would this adress all of our issues? An ok d-man but not really the top 4 guy we need. A center who could turn out good but still hasn't proven anything at the NHL level. And finally a 2nd round pick which could turn into an ok player, but second rounders are far from safe picks and usually takes their time to develop and while being far from win-now mode we're not in collecting picks-mode.

I like Sheehan and wouldn't mind him in another trade, but the trade you suggest for our top scorer doesn't really get us anywhere imo.

It's always tricky to speculate in a players' value, but a skilled player like Hemsky should be able to fetch better value, especially around deadline considering quite a few possible playoff teams are struggling offensively and on the PP.
The Oilers aren't desperate to trade Hemsky, we're not hoping for a deep playoff run, so we can wait for a slight overpayment and since there are a bunch of teams in need of skill, there's a pretty good chance for that to happen.

If he's not traded at the deadline he has one year left on his contract, we can trade him during the summer, trade him as a rental the following season or resign him, it's not like he's hurting the team even though I think for the team going forward a trade is our best bet. The Oilers are in a pretty strong position with Hemsky now that he's finally healthy.

We're also fine for cap and in the standings we're pretty much where we should be so we don't have to seek out trades despite what some of my fellow Oiler fans might think.

There we go. Excellent response and insight into the Oilers situation.

What would it then take? Nyquist? Andersson maybe? He's been playing 3C for us and doing very well, but when Helm comes back there just isn't enough room for him.

DatsyukToZetterberg 03-01-2013 10:23 AM

I don't think the Wings do it. Value may be around fair, but the Wings are very high on Sheahan and now that he is scoring he has an incredible amount of value to the Wings. He really is the deal breaker here, replace him with someone like Jurco, or another mid-round prospect and I think the wings consider it.

jumptheshark 03-01-2013 10:27 AM

From the oilers perspective

Ian White does not bring what the oilers are missing on the D

Smid, , Schultz, Schultz and Petry are a good start

Fistric
Potter
Whitney

are the problem.


For me the greatest need the oilers have is up front and toughness and having a player who can toss hits, stand up for his teammates and play 15minutes a game

wingfan 03-01-2013 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jumptheshark (Post 60731037)
From the oilers perspective

Ian White does not bring what the oilers are missing on the D

Smid, , Schultz, Schultz and Petry are a good start

Fistric
Potter
Whitney

are the problem.


For me the greatest need the oilers have is up front and toughness and having a player who can toss hits, stand up for his teammates and play 15minutes a game

I threw Joakim Andersson out there, he's been solid for us, plays physically, wins puck battles, and chips in offensively. In all reality the real meat and potatoes coming back to the Oilers isn't Ian White, it's Riley Sheahan and the 2nd. Sheahan was a 1st rounder, has size, plays physically, and has skill. Ian White is up there because we'll have 9 healthy defensemen come Sunday... 2 too many. Would you prefer Kindl? Quincey?

RomersWorld* 03-01-2013 10:34 AM

Just my opinion, but I think the Oilers would be complete idiots to turn down this offer. I don't think they would but it is surprising to me that some fans wouldn't do it.

Riley Sheahan is the exact type of player that you need to add. Not to mention he is still incredibly young and can grow with your core. Ales Hemsky is the exact type of player you don't need. Your team is incredibly soft defensively, along the boards and in the corners. You have enough of the skill guys IMO...you need impact players that will do dirty work and can keep up. Sheahan has a chance to be a great 3rd line center if he lives up to potential. That is more valuable than Ales Hemsky who misses half the season and is completely redundant on the Oil.

Not to mention getting a 2nd rounder, maybe allowing the Oilers to move up in the draft..if they package DET 2nd and Oilers 2nd they could get a 1st rounder and we know they don't draft great outside of 1st round picks. Then you can also add a decent defender who has grit and some offensive skill to go along with it.

I'd do this easily if I was an Oilers fan. As for the Wings' POV, it would be interesting to see Datsyuk and Hemsky on the same like but I'm not sure they want another injury prone player on the team.

WeridAl 03-01-2013 10:38 AM

Low ball offer if you ask me, last season it might of been taken, but not this. Does nothing for the Oilers needs, pass.

Vatican Roulette 03-01-2013 10:42 AM

Ewww, no thanks. Wing's don't need the added salary to bring in another soft top 6 forward.

Plus, I believe they would rather trade those assets for defensive help.

wingfan 03-01-2013 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vatican Roulette (Post 60731871)
Ewww, no thanks. Wing's don't need the added salary to bring in another soft top 6 forward.

Plus, I believe they would rather trade those assets for defensive help.

The biggest issue with trading those assets for defensive help? Everyone has the same problem and the price tag for what we truly need(top 4, shutdown dmen) are going to take 1st round picks and roster players, and at that point I'd rather get rid of spare parts for futures than blow the team up to steady the blueline. If you also don't believe Hemsky WOULD help our team you're either delusional, don't watch the same Red Wings that have Cleary/Abby on the 2nd line, or don't realize how talented Hemsky is.

ricky0034 03-01-2013 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingfan (Post 60732053)
The biggest issue with trading those assets for defensive help? Everyone has the same problem and the price tag for what we truly need(top 4, shutdown dmen) are going to take 1st round picks and roster players.

you mean like Riley Sheahan?

this guy was a first round pick and is now living up to his offensive potential in the AHL after not doing so in college

he's also very good defensively,has size,and is the Wings only good Center prospect outside of Jarnkrok

trading him would be a big mistake at this point

wingfan 03-01-2013 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricky0034 (Post 60732435)
you mean like Riley Sheahan?

this guy was a first round pick and is now living up to his offensive potential in the AHL after not doing so in college

he's also very good defensively,has size,and is the Wings only good Center prospect outside of Jarnkrok

trading him would be a big mistake at this point

I mean like 1st round picks in the deepest draft in years where we have our most feasible shot at the lottery.

Seachd 03-01-2013 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RomersWorld (Post 60731453)
Riley Sheahan is the exact type of player that you need to add. Not to mention he is still incredibly young and can grow with your core. Ales Hemsky is the exact type of player you don't need. Your team is incredibly soft defensively, along the boards and in the corners. You have enough of the skill guys IMO...you need impact players that will do dirty work and can keep up. Sheahan has a chance to be a great 3rd line center if he lives up to potential. That is more valuable than Ales Hemsky who misses half the season and is completely redundant on the Oil.

It sounds like you're confusing Hemsky with a soft perimeter player. Of course, he's not close to that, and brings the offense the Oilers are struggling with.

If the Oilers decide to move Hemsky at some point, I wouldn't be surprised if they could do a lot better.

France Nielsen 03-01-2013 11:07 AM

Why would Detroit want to do this? I think Detroit only has an interest in a power forward type on the wing.

umwoz 03-01-2013 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingfan (Post 60732477)
I mean like 1st round picks in the deepest draft in years where we have our most feasible shot at the lottery.

Deepest draft in years? Says who?

By most accounts this is an extremely top heavy draft. Many surefire blue chip guys in the top 10, not a whole bunch outside of it.

kerjuxaxaxa 03-01-2013 11:14 AM

Not good for Detroit

OiledUp 03-01-2013 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingfan (Post 60730765)
There we go. Excellent response and insight into the Oilers situation.

What would it then take? Nyquist? Andersson maybe? He's been playing 3C for us and doing very well, but when Helm comes back there just isn't enough room for him.

If I'm trading Hemsky I would prefer a d-man as the main piece coming back. Either a top prospect who isn't to far from NHL ready or a guy who could walk right in to our top 4. Our d hasn't been as horrific as people seem to think this year, we're getting by, but to get to the next level it most certainly needs improvement, Nick Schultz can't be on the top pairing if we're looking for cups and I have my doubts about Petry, ideally Smid should be a #5 as well, we basically have a few guys who are fine as complement players in the top 4 but ideally are #5s.

I don't mind Andersson and we could use some improvement at the center position. The thing with the Oilers situation at the center position is that I think they want to give Lander a spot as a regular next season to see what he can do with it, I'd say he's already good enough as a 4C and PKer if he can improve his draws a bit. Outside of that we have Horcoff and Belanger, one of them will have to be moved to make room for Lander. Horcoff is the captain and on a contract that makes him difficult/impossible to trade which means we'll likely move Belanger, perhaps at the deadline to a team that needs help on FOs. That still leaves us with four centers on the team, but if Andersson can play as a winger he could be useful for physicality in our bottom six and when Horcoffs contract is up be moved to center.
We could really use a guy who can play both W and C in our bottom six, we need some center depth on the roster. Could Andersson do that? Haven't seen him too much but his skating isn't too impressive, too slow to be effective as a winger on an energy line?

I'm not sure we'd make great trading partners unless you'd be willing to part ways with one of your top d prospects and I'm not sure you'd do that.

jaeger 03-01-2013 11:21 AM

When was the last time the Red Wings traded their prospects before even giving them a shot in the big league?

Bank Shot 03-01-2013 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RomersWorld (Post 60731453)
Just my opinion, but I think the Oilers would be complete idiots to turn down this offer. I don't think they would but it is surprising to me that some fans wouldn't do it.

Riley Sheahan is the exact type of player that you need to add. Not to mention he is still incredibly young and can grow with your core. Ales Hemsky is the exact type of player you don't need. Your team is incredibly soft defensively, along the boards and in the corners. You have enough of the skill guys IMO...you need impact players that will do dirty work and can keep up. Sheahan has a chance to be a great 3rd line center if he lives up to potential. That is more valuable than Ales Hemsky who misses half the season and is completely redundant on the Oil.

Not to mention getting a 2nd rounder, maybe allowing the Oilers to move up in the draft..if they package DET 2nd and Oilers 2nd they could get a 1st rounder and we know they don't draft great outside of 1st round picks. Then you can also add a decent defender who has grit and some offensive skill to go along with it.

I'd do this easily if I was an Oilers fan. As for the Wings' POV, it would be interesting to see Datsyuk and Hemsky on the same like but I'm not sure they want another injury prone player on the team.

If the Oilers are going to trade a top six winger for a third line centre..........Why wouldn't they trade Hemsky for an NHLer that is already proven?

Seems like Edmonton is taking 100% of the risk on this trade. What's the incentive here? Edmonton has too much youth already.

They'd be better off to keep Hemsky and trade a second for a proven third line centre.


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