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-   -   Your opinion on rebuilding. (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1363717)

Knight of the Realm 03-01-2013 12:20 PM

Your opinion on rebuilding.
 
Just curious how Calgary fans view the current team and if you feel a rebuild is necessary or not. Calgary seems to be one of those blackhole teams. Hang around 8th place, fall out of the playoffs, rarely get a top 5 pick. LA was kind of in a similar spot for awhile.

Do the majority of Flames fans want to go through a full rebuild or is that just not really a mindset? You have are a few good pieces to build around. If the deadline hits and Calgary is on the outside looking in, is this the year they will move out vets for a quality future?

Honest question really?

StreakingRed 03-01-2013 12:29 PM

The Flames need to be smarter with their assets and how they handle them. That's how they can rebuild. I'm not necessarily talking the Edmonton route of blowing it up to the ground. I just want them to keep their picks (especially 1st's), draft well and make smart decisions at the draft, and get value back from their assets before they walk.

A deep draft like this year's, I believe it's a must they keep that 1st. On top of that, I think they should be trying to acquire more, not get rid of theirs.

We don't know if Kiprusoff plans of playing here next year. That sounds like a pretty important thing to find out, because if he's not, he needs to be traded at the deadline.

If Iginla doesn't want to re-sign, start making plans for a trade.

If we can get a 1st for Bouwmeester or a good young prospect, do it.

These older vets that have been around since the Sutter days have only proven so far that they can't win. Let's turn the page and start putting pieces together. Get some young elite talent in here that will lead the way in the future.


My 2 cents.

Tak7 03-01-2013 12:30 PM

I think the Flames needed to go into rebuild mode years ago.

The longer they wait, the less the value of an Iginla or Kiprusoff will become.

Both are great players, but aren't apart of the Flames team. They need to blow it up. Otherwise, as you said, they will sit in mediocrity for a long time.

That's what makes the Ryan O'Reilly offer sheet so bizarre - sure he's a great player, but giving up draft picks? That's the very thing Calgary should be stockpiling.

While the Oilers model isn't one that any team can reliably mimic, that's a great example of what the Flames need to do in order to secure some high value talent via draft

weephil56 03-01-2013 12:35 PM

I wish they would just start the rebuild. This team will scrap its way close to the playoffs if we are really unlucky then end up with an average pick in the draft and the process starts all over again.

Ynnek 03-01-2013 12:48 PM

We have good enough pieces to build around to do a quick rebuild without burning everything to the ground. Does management have the balls to do it though? After feaster's ballsy move yesterday anything is possible though I'm still leaning towards it not happening.

TheHudlinator 03-01-2013 01:47 PM

Do it already, get younger, faster, more skilled, and build around Hartley's system.

InfinityIggy 03-01-2013 02:25 PM

I would like to see Iginla, Kipper and maybe Tanguay moved, hopefully all for a 1st or at least an A-level prospect.

Then keep all of our secondary players and our defensive core. Use our now multipule 1sts (4 in this scenario) packaged with a roster player to acquire a young, potential #1C (Schenn as an example).

In other words, I want a rebuild but not Edmonton style.

tfong 03-01-2013 02:31 PM

Detroit proves u don't need to tank to build a winning team.

Tak7 03-01-2013 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfong (Post 60744905)
Detroit proves u don't need to tank to build a winning team.

Detroit also has an outstanding history of drafting well, not only in the 1st round but late in the draft as well.

Something that Calgary (and most other teams) don't quite have.

So Detroit is a poor example.

slappipappi 03-01-2013 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ynnek (Post 60739065)
We have good enough pieces to build around to do a quick rebuild without burning everything to the ground.

We have less young pieces to build around than any team in the NHL, as our prospect depth is near the bottom of the league.

The only saving grace for our team (and it is a huge saving grace) is the fact that we are a cap team, are playing in an attractive market, and have stable ownership.

To become an elite team will take many painful years.

This will be anything but a quick rebuild.

We don't have one young player who you would consider an established player who plays above average. None.

The closes we have to such a player is Backlund, Bodie and Sven.

How do you propse we do a quick rebuild around your pieces? How are we going to get an elite core of young players to rival Toews/Kane/Keith/Seabrook/Hossa/Sharp, or Crosby/Malkin/Neal/Letang, or Boston's stable of young players headed by Sequin?

You can pick up the odd Hosa as a UFA, but the other players come from drafting. Sven might be such a piece, but even if he is, we are a long way off from filling in the blanks.

Tak7 03-01-2013 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ynnek (Post 60739065)
We have good enough pieces to build around to do a quick rebuild without burning everything to the ground. Does management have the balls to do it though? After feaster's ballsy move yesterday anything is possible though I'm still leaning towards it not happening.

What pieces....?

tfong 03-01-2013 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tak7 (Post 60745797)
Detroit also has an outstanding history of drafting well, not only in the 1st round but late in the draft as well.

Something that Calgary (and most other teams) don't quite have.

So Detroit is a poor example.

Our recent picks have been looking good tbh. But I was mainly saying it can be done just like the wings, whether or not it happens is different.

TheHudlinator 03-01-2013 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tak7 (Post 60749117)
What pieces....?

Assuming we aren't burning it to the ground we could build a team around

Tanguay,Glencross,Cammy,Jbo as the remnants of the old core and then use Hudler,Cervenka,Widemen to play a large role the team and then use Backlund,Sven,Brodie,Horak as the young players that take a large role going forward

A lineup could look like
Tanguay - Backlund - Glencross
Cammy - Stajan - Horak
Hudler - Cervenka - Sven

basically every line gets a young player and we get picks/prospects for
Iggy,Kipper,Gio,Stempniak,Sarich,Smith,Butler

I Hate Chris Butler 03-01-2013 04:25 PM

It doesn't ****ing matter. People assume "the fans don't want a rebuild so the Flames won't do it" as if what the fans want is worth **** to anyone. If they're not going to rebuild, they won't and there's nothing I or any Flames fan can do about it.

Just the way she goes.

gradeAducksfan 03-01-2013 04:26 PM

Ducks fan that comes in peace.

Now I don't see the Ducks making a run for Iginla but that being said, Does he get moved this year? I still would image that he would get a pretty darn good return.

Thoughts please?

Thank you guys/girls!

F l a m e s 03-01-2013 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm (Post 60737477)
Just curious how Calgary fans view the current team and if you feel a rebuild is necessary or not. Calgary seems to be one of those blackhole teams. Hang around 8th place, fall out of the playoffs, rarely get a top 5 pick. LA was kind of in a similar spot for awhile.

Do the majority of Flames fans want to go through a full rebuild or is that just not really a mindset? You have are a few good pieces to build around. If the deadline hits and Calgary is on the outside looking in, is this the year they will move out vets for a quality future?

Honest question really?

Rarely? .... Never.
_______

But to answer your question, yes, we should rebuild. I would like to stalk pile high picks/prosepcts from trades at the deadline, and look for some quality for younger/more established players: Couts, Ryan, etc.

Obviously, I wouldn't want all our picks to be traded. I would keep our highest one for sure.

It's time. I've defended this team long enough, I want changes.

F l a m e s 03-01-2013 04:29 PM

The Fourth Period has an article on the Flames plan B.... They think a Blow-up is coming.

TheHudlinator 03-01-2013 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wally31 (Post 60751331)
The Fourth Period has an article on the Flames plan B.... They think a Blow-up is coming.

It is the only option left so.... trade for Jokinen

TylerSVT* 03-01-2013 04:35 PM

They should have rebuilt years ago when the writing was on the wall then.

This road trip is either going to be the sign to rebuild, or keep steady.

tfong 03-01-2013 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHudlinator (Post 60751415)
It is the only option left so.... trade for Jokinen

They said blow it up..... Not nuclear winter....

Calculon 03-01-2013 04:52 PM

There's a misconception particularly inherent in Flames fan where the the phrase 'rebuilding' is synonymous with 'losing on purpose.'

The reality is not so. Rebuilding simply means to go in a different direction. As the previous approach wasn't working, it's time something else was tried. The veteran heavy emphasis has failed miserably and repeatedly, thus, it makes absolutely no sense to continue down that road. In this sense, rebuilding would simply mean a changing of the guard; out with the old and in with the new.

Tanking is common path rebuilding teams take, but it not the only option. It's very possible for the Flames to sell off the old core, restock the prospect pool, and go into next season, much younger and less experienced, but still trying to win as much they can. They may not do so, but it's not like they intending to lose - they can still plan on icing the best possible line up, but one that's simply younger and more in line with what works in today's NHL.

And from that perspective, the Flames don't really have an option. They have to rebuild.

Knight of the Realm 03-01-2013 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Hate Chris Butler (Post 60751145)
It doesn't ****ing matter. People assume "the fans don't want a rebuild so the Flames won't do it" as if what the fans want is worth **** to anyone. If they're not going to rebuild, they won't and there's nothing I or any Flames fan can do about it.

Just the way she goes.

Obviously the decision is in the hands of ownership and management. Fans can apply some pressure to a degree tho.

F l a m e s 03-01-2013 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerSVT (Post 60751545)
They should have rebuilt years ago when the writing was on the wall then.

This road trip is either going to be the sign to rebuild, or keep steady.

You mean this upcoming home-stand?

Gary83* 03-01-2013 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wally31 (Post 60760625)
You mean this upcoming home-stand?

He was looking at the oilers schedule and got confused.

Wags 03-01-2013 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHudlinator (Post 60751063)
Assuming we aren't burning it to the ground we could build a team around

Tanguay,Glencross,Cammy,Jbo as the remnants of the old core and then use Hudler,Cervenka,Widemen to play a large role the team and then use Backlund,Sven,Brodie,Horak as the young players that take a large role going forward

A lineup could look like
Tanguay - Backlund - Glencross
Cammy - Stajan - Horak
Hudler - Cervenka - Sven

basically every line gets a young player and we get picks/prospects for
Iggy,Kipper,Gio,Stempniak,Sarich,Smith,Butler

Those guys are as guilty as any of buying into the type of culture we are trying to get rid of. Tanguay has tons of skill...when he decides to show up. Glencross has a good shot, very good speed, awesome contract...and zero hockey sense, I mean none at all. Cammy isn't what he used to be, though I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as I think he can regain what he had and is showing glimpses of turning it around. Jbo may net us too good of return to not deal him if he keeps up his reinvigorated play.

I agree with all of your removals, though outside of Iggy and Kipper (maybe Gio) I wouldn't expect too much in return.


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