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-   -   OT: Dumbest Move Ever by a GM (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1363745)

Lafleurs Guy 03-01-2013 12:45 PM

OT: Dumbest Move Ever by a GM
 
I realize that this is an Out of Town thing, but it seriously deserves it's own thread, and I'll morph it into a topic about worst GM moves ever...

Calgary was saved by Colorado's match because they would've lost their 1st, 3rd AND they never would've gott ROR because he would've had to have cleared waivers...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2013/..._ryan_oreilly/

What a shame Colorado had to go and ruin it. This would've been the worst move of all-time.

In all seriousness, I can't think of anything worse. Can you?

McTusk 03-01-2013 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy (Post 60738881)
I realize that this is an Out of Town thing, but it seriously deserves it's own thread, and I'll morph it into a topic about worst GM moves ever...

Calgary was saved by Colorado's match because they would've lost their 1st, 3rd AND they never would've gott ROR because he would've had to have cleared waivers...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2013/..._ryan_oreilly/

What a shame Colorado had to go and ruin it. This would've been the worst move of all-time.

In all seriousness, I can't think of anything worse. Can you?

Can't think of much worse, learning that was ridiculous, do some research Calgary. It would've been the management fail of all time.

I guess it's similar to the Blackhawks qualifying offer shenanigans.

No Team Needed 03-01-2013 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy (Post 60738881)
In all seriousness, I can't think of anything worse. Can you?

Mike Milbury trading Roberto Luongo and Olli Jokinen for Oleg Kvasha and a guy I can't remember to make room for Rick DiPietro is probably the worst NHL trade in modern history.

Do you remember what the Edmonton Oilers got for trading Mark Messier? I don't and I remember when it happened. Think about that for a second.

Harry Frazee of the Boston Red Sox sold players to pay for his theatre and one of them was Babe Ruth to the New York Yankees. That blunder hurt the Red Sox for generations.

sheed36 03-01-2013 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy (Post 60738881)
I realize that this is an Out of Town thing, but it seriously deserves it's own thread, and I'll morph it into a topic about worst GM moves ever...

Calgary was saved by Colorado's match because they would've lost their 1st, 3rd AND they never would've gott ROR because he would've had to have cleared waivers...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2013/..._ryan_oreilly/

What a shame Colorado had to go and ruin it. This would've been the worst move of all-time.

In all seriousness, I can't think of anything worse. Can you?

Couldn't the Flames tell ROR to just sit at home while they paid him and not put him through waivers this year and for him to start playing next year? Seems like a better scenario than losing a 1st and 3rd pick plus the player if they could have done it that way. The NHLPA probably wouldn't be happy with that scenario though.

Too bad the Avs matched though.. This would've been an interesting story to follow.

teh doors 03-01-2013 12:57 PM

Not a direct move, but maybe Mike Milbury's dad deciding to have a son and then that son running the Islanders.

Lafleurs Guy 03-01-2013 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheed36 (Post 60739495)
Couldn't the Flames tell ROR to just sit at home while they paid him and not put him through waivers this year and for him to start playing next year? Seems like a better scenario than losing a 1st and 3rd pick plus the player if they could have done it that way. The NHLPA probably wouldn't be happy with that scenario though.

Too bad the Avs matched though.. This would've been an interesting story to follow.

I don't think so... I think he'd have to clear waivers at some point and they'd never have gotten him.

LyricalLyricist 03-01-2013 12:58 PM

FWIW, I felt same way but Bob Mckenzie did add this afterwards:

Bob McKenzie‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

Of course, there are always complications. LOL. If COL "traded" ROR to CGY from its RFA list to CGY's RFA list, ROR would be waiver exempt.

Bob McKenzie‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

But that trade may require a little more cooperation than one might reasonably expect from one team preying on another.



Perhaps Calgary had a plan but if not, man oh man is that bad.

habsroom 03-01-2013 12:59 PM

We lost Francois Beauchemin on waviers when Gainey sent sent him down to the AHL thinking he didn't have to go threw the wavier wire. I know not as bad but still sad for a GM and the rest of the staff not to know the rules.

Lafleurs Guy 03-01-2013 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Team Needed (Post 60739419)
Mike Milbury trading Roberto Luongo and Olli Jokinen for Oleg Kvasha and a guy I can't remember to make room for Rick DiPietro is probably the worst NHL trade in modern history.

Do you remember what the Edmonton Oilers got for trading Mark Messier? I don't and I remember when it happened. Think about that for a second.

Harry Frazee of the Boston Red Sox sold players to pay for his theatre and one of them was Babe Ruth to the New York Yankees. That blunder hurt the Red Sox for generations.

Milbury is the king of dumb.

The Messier trade is different. It's a forced trade kind of like the Roy one. Very bad deals but they were at least forced.

This is an unforced error where you're pissing off another team and giving away a number one (possibly top five) in a deep, deep draft. Plus a third rounder to boot.

Epic, classic, fail.

Really, really too bad Colorado matched. This would've been worse than any move I can think of just for the sheer stupidity of it.

teh doors 03-01-2013 01:01 PM

Who was the Calgary GM that let Marty St. Louis walk? Although I guess his rise was probably pretty unexpected.

sheed36 03-01-2013 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy (Post 60739605)
I don't think so... I think he'd have to clear waivers at some point and they'd never have gotten him.

So you're saying ROR would have to clear waivers at some point (now or next season) if he ever wants to play in the NHL again?

Habsfan18 03-01-2013 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Team Needed (Post 60739419)
Mike Milbury trading Roberto Luongo and Olli Jokinen for Oleg Kvasha and a guy I can't remember to make room for Rick DiPietro is probably the worst NHL trade in modern history.

That would be Mark Parrish. :laugh:

I remember that deal like it was yesterday!

Lafleurs Guy 03-01-2013 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist (Post 60739635)
FWIW, I felt same way but Bob Mckenzie did add this afterwards:

Bob McKenzie‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

Of course, there are always complications. LOL. If COL "traded" ROR to CGY from its RFA list to CGY's RFA list, ROR would be waiver exempt.

Bob McKenzie‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

But that trade may require a little more cooperation than one might reasonably expect from one team preying on another.



Perhaps Calgary had a plan but if not, man oh man is that bad.

Yeah... how exactly would that conversation go? :laugh:

Well uh, look I'm ah sorry... (gulp) for uh trying to poach your player from you... ah, do you think you could do me this teeeensy little favour?

I'd ah, really appreciate it... uh er um ah (gulp) ah...

LyricalLyricist 03-01-2013 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy (Post 60739605)
I don't think so... I think he'd have to clear waivers at some point and they'd never have gotten him.

Only if they join mid-season from another team.

If for some reason he postponed his arrival till next year then no, he wouldn't need to go through waivers. That's my understanding anyway.

Lafleurs Guy 03-01-2013 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheed36 (Post 60739825)
So you're saying ROR would have to clear waivers at some point (now or next season) if he ever wants to play in the NHL again?

He doesn't have to clear if he goes back to the Avs but he would have to clear for anyone else.
Quote:

Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist (Post 60739931)
Only if they join mid-season from another team.

If for some reason he postponed his arrival till next year then no, he wouldn't need to go through waivers. That's my understanding anyway.

Maybe you're right, but...

Calgary would have had to have know this first. And it's pretty clear they didn't. I'm pretty sure they would've found out the hard way...

No Team Needed 03-01-2013 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Doors (Post 60739767)
Who was the Calgary GM that let Marty St. Louis walk? Although I guess his rise was probably pretty unexpected.

Craig Button. He also let Steve Begin go on waivers and traded Marc Savard for Ruslan Zainzullan.

In other words, all of this "Calgary has no center" talk wouldn't have existed if he had a little more faith in Savard. Imagine a line of Savard centering Iginla and St. Louis.

LyricalLyricist 03-01-2013 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy (Post 60739873)
Yeah... how exactly would that conversation go? :laugh:

Well uh, look I'm ah sorry... (gulp) for uh trying to poach your player from you... ah, do you think you could do me this teeeensy little favour?

I'd ah, really appreciate it... uh er um ah (gulp) ah...

Agreed, but it's to say it wasn't a set in stone deal. They may have challenged O'Reilly's status as a player coming in from foreign league because O'reilly played a small number of games and from what I read he hasn't been in KHL for a while. Maybe there was some loophole, I don't know.

Like I said, incredibly stupid if flames didn't have a plan.

sheed36 03-01-2013 01:06 PM

Does ROR have to clear waivers in order to play for the Avs this year then? If the Flames would've had to expose him to waivers because he played in the KHL after the NHL season started why don't the AVS have to do the same?

No Team Needed 03-01-2013 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheed36 (Post 60740085)
Does ROR have to clear waivers in order to play for the Avs this year then? If the Flames would've had to expose him to waivers because he played in the KHL after the NHL season started why don't the AVS have to do the same?

Bob McKenzie is now saying ROR would likely be waiver exempt.

EDIT: OR not according to Bill Daly. Jesus.

LyricalLyricist 03-01-2013 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheed36 (Post 60740085)
Does ROR have to clear waivers in order to play for the Avs this year then? If the Flames would've had to expose him to waivers because he played in the KHL after the NHL season started why don't the AVS have to do the same?

According to Mckenzie it changed in the new CBA. In old CBA, yes he would have to. In new CBA if a player is on your RFA list, he is exempt from this procedure. Since Colorado held his rights he doesnt need to go through waivers.

Sorinth 03-01-2013 01:08 PM

Didn't a team once draft a dead guy. But anyways looks like the article is wrong, in the comments someone points out

Quote:

All Players on a Club’s Reserve List and Restricted Free Agent List will be exempt from the application of CBA 13.23 Waivers in the case of a mid-season signing.

LyricalLyricist 03-01-2013 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorinth (Post 60740191)
Didn't a team once draft a dead guy. But anyways looks like the article is wrong, in the comments someone points out

It does not disprove the article. At least that's what Mckenzie says.

Marc the Habs Fan 03-01-2013 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habsroom (Post 60739651)
We lost Francois Beauchemin on waviers when Gainey sent sent him down to the AHL thinking he didn't have to go threw the wavier wire. I know not as bad but still sad for a GM and the rest of the staff not to know the rules.

Huh, that wasn't the story at all. It was in the days before the 2004 lockout. Beauchemin was waiver eligible and they thought they could squeeze him through waivers since he had cleared them at least once before.

The only other option was signing Beauchemin to an AHL contract to avoid waivers (which was the Habs did this year with several waiver eligible plays)

sheed36 03-01-2013 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Team Needed (Post 60740127)
Bob McKenzie is now saying ROR would likely be waiver exempt.

EDIT: OR not according to Bill Daly. Jesus.

Here's a quote from the business board here that says ROR is not exempt from Waivers.


Quote:

Originally Posted by CBA Article 13.4
For purposes of Regular Waivers and Re-Entry Waivers, the five (5) year
exemption for an 18 year old skater and the four (4) year exemption for a 19 year old
skater shall both be reduced to three (3) years commencing the first season that the 18 or
19 year old skater plays in eleven (11) NHL Games or more. The next two (2) seasons,
regardless of whether the skater plays any NHL Games in either season, shall count as the
second and third years toward satisfying the exemption.
Quote:

ROR played 81 NHL games as an 18 yo in '09-'10 - reducing his 5 year waiver exemption to 3 ('09-'10, '10-'11, & '11-'12). His Waiver exemption expired at the end of last season.

McTusk 03-01-2013 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habsroom (Post 60739651)
We lost Francois Beauchemin on waviers when Gainey sent sent him down to the AHL thinking he didn't have to go threw the wavier wire. I know not as bad but still sad for a GM and the rest of the staff not to know the rules.

That's not true, they just thought nobody was going to claim someone when the lockout was about to happen. They did it in good faith and got screwed.


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