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-   -   Proposal: Boston/Edmonton (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1365201)

Alberta_OReilly_Fan 03-03-2013 01:16 AM

Boston/Edmonton
 
It can be very risky for a team going as good as Boston to make a shakeup trade but I think this one might make sense for 'us.' Im a Bruin's fan. I live in Edmonton and understand the Oilers needs too so I think this one works for the Oilers too. Here is the proposal and I'll offer a defense to it after.

Edmonton
Ales Hemsky {Edmonton picks up half his cap hit}
Magnus Paajarvi
Ladislav Smid

Boston
Nathan Horton {sign and trade}
Andrew Ference {sign and trade}
Boston's first round pick

So it's a big six player proposal and involves 3 impending UFA and also some cap hit too. Here is why I think it makes sense.

First for my Bruins. Horton/Ference were both part of the cup team but both guys are impending UFA and Boston has a cap issue looming for next season. I think Smid is a better dman than Ference and might only be a rental but Boston needs a top 4 guy for this year's playoff run. A rental is ok. Losing Horton does decrease Boston's size/grit but they have more then they need. They can afford to lose Horton. Hemsky isnt my favorite player in the world by far. But he does have good chemistry with Krecji. Sometimes Boston can't score enough 'easy' goals. I have a theory that Hemsky joining Krecji and Lucic would repersent a more offensively intimidating first line than Horton on the line does. Seguin/Bergeron/Marchand is probably the best second line in hockey. Kelly/Peverly are two thirds of a very competitive third line. Boston probably has the best fourth line in hockey. So shifting the dynamics on the first line adding Hemsky's skill to it does appeal to me even if he himself as a 'winner' does not. Then finally comes Paajarvi. The kid needs a change of address. He is buried way too far behind Hall/Eberle/Hopkins/Gagne/Yakubov to ever get a fair chance in Edmonton. Boston can give him a tryout right away on the third line with Kelly/Peverly and hope for the best.

As for Edmonton I guess most of the benefits are self explanatory. Hemsky is almost addition by subtraction at this point. He is too associated with the losing. The kids will have an easier time becoming the goto leaders on the team if Hemsky/Horcorff are removed from the picture. There is only 1 puck to go around and Eberle/Yakubov are both undersized super skilled RW that need to play on the top 3 lines. A big bull like Horton would complement the team more then a guy like Hemsky would. Moving on, Ference isnt as good a dman as Smid is BUT he is an alberta/edmonton area guy that liked playing in Calgary earlier in his career. He reeks leadership. He has winning pedigree. He plays team tough hockey. He really is what Edmonton needs to help upgrade their defense. Getting a first round pick to redo the Paajarvi draft doesnt really hurt. Paajarvi will only lose value the longer you keep him in bad situation and he isnt worth more then a late first right now already.

Keep in mind that this deal ONLY makes sense if Edmonton is getting both Horton/Ference signed for the future. I think Ference would be alot more affordable to resign then Smid will be. I think Horton might be more affordable then Hemsky. I think Edmonton stands to save some cap room.

This is a proposal where both teams deal from strength. Boston sacraficing some leadership/grit but gaining skill. Edmonton obviously sacraficing skill but gaining leadership/grit.

So that's it. We all make these proposals wondering what others think so I turn this over to you now. Thanks for reading.

glenbuis 03-03-2013 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan (Post 60844231)
It can be very risky for a team going as good as Boston to make a shakeup trade but I think this one might make sense for 'us.' Im a Bruin's fan. I live in Edmonton and understand the Oilers needs too so I think this one works for the Oilers too. Here is the proposal and I'll offer a defense to it after.

Edmonton
Ales Hemsky {Edmonton picks up half his cap hit}
Magnus Paajarvi
Ladislav Smid

Boston
Nathan Horton {sign and trade}
Andrew Ference {sign and trade}
Boston's first round pick

So it's a big six player proposal and involves 3 impending UFA and also some cap hit too. Here is why I think it makes sense.

First for my Bruins. Horton/Ference were both part of the cup team but both guys are impending UFA and Boston has a cap issue looming for next season. I think Smid is a better dman than Ference and might only be a rental but Boston needs a top 4 guy for this year's playoff run. A rental is ok. Losing Horton does decrease Boston's size/grit but they have more then they need. They can afford to lose Horton. Hemsky isnt my favorite player in the world by far. But he does have good chemistry with Krecji. Sometimes Boston can't score enough 'easy' goals. I have a theory that Hemsky joining Krecji and Lucic would repersent a more offensively intimidating first line than Horton on the line does. Seguin/Bergeron/Marchand is probably the best second line in hockey. Kelly/Peverly are two thirds of a very competitive third line. Boston probably has the best fourth line in hockey. So shifting the dynamics on the first line adding Hemsky's skill to it does appeal to me even if he himself as a 'winner' does not. Then finally comes Paajarvi. The kid needs a change of address. He is buried way too far behind Hall/Eberle/Hopkins/Gagne/Yakubov to ever get a fair chance in Edmonton. Boston can give him a tryout right away on the third line with Kelly/Peverly and hope for the best.

As for Edmonton I guess most of the benefits are self explanatory. Hemsky is almost addition by subtraction at this point. He is too associated with the losing. The kids will have an easier time becoming the goto leaders on the team if Hemsky/Horcorff are removed from the picture. There is only 1 puck to go around and Eberle/Yakubov are both undersized super skilled RW that need to play on the top 3 lines. A big bull like Horton would complement the team more then a guy like Hemsky would. Moving on, Ference isnt as good a dman as Smid is BUT he is an alberta/edmonton area guy that liked playing in Calgary earlier in his career. He reeks leadership. He has winning pedigree. He plays team tough hockey. He really is what Edmonton needs to help upgrade their defense. Getting a first round pick to redo the Paajarvi draft doesnt really hurt. Paajarvi will only lose value the longer you keep him in bad situation and he isnt worth more then a late first right now already.

Keep in mind that this deal ONLY makes sense if Edmonton is getting both Horton/Ference signed for the future. I think Ference would be alot more affordable to resign then Smid will be. I think Horton might be more affordable then Hemsky. I think Edmonton stands to save some cap room.

This is a proposal where both teams deal from strength. Boston sacraficing some leadership/grit but gaining skill. Edmonton obviously sacraficing skill but gaining leadership/grit.

So that's it. We all make these proposals wondering what others think so I turn this over to you now. Thanks for reading.

Although i think Hemsky would do well in boston or Pittsburg, the Bruins get screwed in this one.

EastCoastNiner 03-03-2013 01:29 AM

I like that you always think outside the box and actual support trade ideas, but the Bruins don't touch this one with a ten foot pole. They give up way too much here.

I understand wanting to deal from strength, but when you are a contending team, why not keep that strength? The top two lines have been money so far this season, and Horton showed his worth in the playoffs already.

I don't see the need for the shakeup.

oilinblood 03-03-2013 01:29 AM

so you took our top defenseman who loves edmonton and is one of the biggest competitors and you replace him -on an already bottom tier defense squad- with Ference. No offense to Ference who is good as a bottom pair guy but umm...this team needs its #1guy.

This proposal was tossed as soon as it mentioned our best Dman being moved.

Path Of The Beserker 03-03-2013 01:30 AM

As a Bruin's fan I could see both teams thinking they may be getting the short end here, so I think it would be a deal to contemplate. Maybe a tweek or two here and there, but doesnt seem to be that heinous to me :laugh: I love Horton and would like him to re-sign, but I agree Smid is something we could very likely make good use of and MPS is due for a change.
Curious to see what some of the reasonable/sensible Oilers fans think.

5RingsAndABeer 03-03-2013 01:42 AM

I think it's pretty close but I probably wouldn't do it as an Oiler fan. I think Hemsky is really undervalued in your reasoning; I completely disagree that he has negative value. He has been a part of the losing but that doesn't mean he can't contribute a lot. He's a very skilled player and finally looks to be healthy. Horton would fill a need, so I'd definitely think about the deal.

I don't see why Boston would do it since they're already contenders. MPS is a future and you're rocking the boat by adding Hemsky to your roster (he doesn't have chemistry with everyone).

fireworks 03-03-2013 01:45 AM

Not a horrible proposal. But, no thanks. I really like Horton & Ference and I'm not sure I have that much interest in Smid or Hemsky

Alberta_OReilly_Fan 03-03-2013 01:53 AM

going to add something to my origional proposal and should have threw it in right away. Edmonton needs to get rid of Whitney too cause of how things are breaking down. They dont need another vet having that sort of a negative experience after the whole sheldon souray mess and the rest of the crap that has gone on in recent years.

Boston doesnt really need Whitney but they could give up a conditional pick for him. My theory is that Whitney is done unless his foot heals better. I dont think he can keep up with the play the way things are now. Boston actually does have the cap room to absorb his hit for this year. It never hurts to have a vet dman around as your 7th/8th dman at playoff time in case injurys devastate the team.

There is a small chance that Whitney still can play and a change of scenery might be good for him? So I would throw in a conditional second round pick if Boston resigns Whitney. Maybe a 5th/6th if they dont.

Alberta_OReilly_Fan 03-03-2013 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilinblood (Post 60844627)
so you took our top defenseman who loves edmonton and is one of the biggest competitors and you replace him -on an already bottom tier defense squad- with Ference. No offense to Ference who is good as a bottom pair guy but umm...this team needs its #1guy.

This proposal was tossed as soon as it mentioned our best Dman being moved.

why cant Edmonton resign Smid as an UFA if he loves Edmonton that much? Talk to him before the deal goes down so he doesnt get any hurt feelings. Tell him they'd love to have him back but the team isnt going to win anything this year and this trade makes them stronger for the future. If he really is interested in resigning with the team at a sensible cap hit... then theres no reason they cant resign him

I guess the way the Oilers defense shapes up now...

you got Schultz/Petry as two RH shots you can count on for the top 4. Oscar Kefbom seems likely he will be part of the top 4 in a couple years as a LH shot. Nick Schultz isnt really a top 4 guy on a good team but Edmonton isnt a good team yet. Ference to me repersents more winning pedigree/expereince then Schultz and probably will be cheaper to keep around for a 4-5 year deal.

Im not really wowed by any of Edmonton's other dmen and dont really think you can win with them. Edmonton will still need to do some more rebuilding in order to become the winning team they want to be

But if they do resign Smid... then he could continue to partner with Petry as a pretty good second pairing unit. Kefbom breaks in with Ference tutoring him for a couple years as a very good bottom unit hopefully. Then the team just has to find the right guy to play with Schultz in the top unit. Oilers will still have the ability to deal one of their hotshot kids to find themselves a really legitmate stud dman for the top spot.

Maybe dangle Yakubov to try to land someone like Tyler Myers if Buffalo is interested in that? Or maybe talk to Toronto about Gardiner since he and Schultz are reportedly tight from their college days?

Anyhow... your concern is understandable. But my counter is that I am not convinced Smid does intend to stay at a reasonable cost. I think he is going to get over 5 mill a year if he hits UFA. I dont think he is worth that and as an Oiler supporter I wouldnt pay it to him

He might be Edmontons best dman as you say... but on a winning team, he is only a second pairing guy. If you give him 5 mill you will blow your cap when it comes time to afford to keep guys like Schultz and Hopkins and a number 1 goalie in the future along with Hall and Eberle and maybe Gagne too

jumptheshark 03-03-2013 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastNiner (Post 60844605)
I like that you always think outside the box and actual support trade ideas, but the Bruins don't touch this one with a ten foot pole. They give up way too much here.

I understand wanting to deal from strength, but when you are a contending team, why not keep that strength? The top two lines have been money so far this season, and Horton showed his worth in the playoffs already.

I don't see the need for the shakeup.

Flaw is also that I do not see sign and trades happening in the NHL.

I see both Horton and Ference trying the open market

Spawn 03-03-2013 02:14 AM

It would depend on the kind of contract that Horton would get. Hemsky's contract isn't incredible by any means, but Horton could make a lot of money and it would last longer than Hemskys deal. New contracts for Hall and Eberle kicking in next season and then needing to re-sign Schultz and RNH the next season... tough adding a top 6 forward that could be making upwards of 5 million per year for multiple years.

Value is good for the Oilers if Horton was signed to a deal. Not so sure it is there for the Bruins though.

The Dangley One 03-03-2013 02:32 AM

Boston should not be giving up any of its core that won the cup. Only should be adding to it by dealing prospects and picks

nmbr_24 03-03-2013 02:48 AM

As a Bruins fan I would say no thanks. Out of all of those player Horton is the guy I want most for the playoffs.

Toydarian 03-03-2013 02:56 AM

I don't agree with the statement:
Quote:

Hemsky is almost addition by subtraction at this point. He is too associated with the losing.
During Oilers past three seasons of embarrassing failure (2009/10, 2010/11, 2011/12) Hemsky missed a large number of games due to injury (played in 138 of 246 games). Hemsky was also the Oilers regular season scoring leader when the team made it to the Stanley Cup Finals in 06.

duul 03-03-2013 03:36 AM

The Oilers are not going to trade Smid, especially for a downgrade on defence. As nice as it would be to get Horton, the 1st round pick is basically a 2nd rounder for us and I don't think Horton makes up the difference for Hemsky and Paajarvi.

Numbah4 03-03-2013 03:53 AM

Each team has a valid reason not to do it.

1. Edmonton is a building team that's not really a contender yet. Doesn't make sense for them to give up more talent for some locker room/leadership presence yet. Maybe next year. Not now.

2. Boston is a contender. Doesn't make sense to break up any chemistry on a team from which all reports say get along fantastic.
Not enough talent coming to replace that. Corey Perry yes.
This trade no.

Alberta_OReilly_Fan 03-03-2013 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toydarian (Post 60845933)
I don't agree with the statement:


During Oilers past three seasons of embarrassing failure (2009/10, 2010/11, 2011/12) Hemsky missed a large number of games due to injury (played in 138 of 246 games). Hemsky was also the Oilers regular season scoring leader when the team made it to the Stanley Cup Finals in 06.

hemsky is unquestionably a highlight reel machine. but his practice habits suck. He is last guy on/first guy off. His work on the PP is horrific. He is borderline uncoachable. His raw talent gets him some results but he has an ego that doesnt let him play well with the other children. Hemsky demands that the puck goes throw himself.

Now i think its possible that if he got dealt to a team that just won the cup, that maybe he could change his attitude/issues? Im not 100% convinced but I would maybe risk it. He did play well with Krecji so that works in his favor. Boston doesnt have any highlight reel machines like Edmonton does so Hemsky would be 'special' again in Boston. That might help.

In Edmonton though the time has come to turn the puck over to kids like Eberle/Hall/Hopkins and potentially Yakubov/Gagne. Where does Hemsky fit into this mix? He isnt willing to play the offwing. Again this speaks to his willingness to put the team first. Unwilling/unable? does it matter?

Yakubov/Eberle need to play the RW. Both are undersized/skilled guys. Hemsky making 5 mill is a very very expensive unnecessary third name here. He is just more of the same when there is already enough of it.

Horton is a crashing/banger that you can build third line around if you want to go in that direction. He has also played center in the NHL before. Im sure hed agree to play LW if asked.

On another team Hemsky might not be addition by subtraction. On a very young super talented Oiler team that has alot of questions about character/winning attitude in the locker room and on the ice... he is. His super talent doesnt compensage enough for his other issues since the team doesnt need more super talent.

Alberta_OReilly_Fan 03-03-2013 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numbah4 (Post 60846505)
Each team has a valid reason not to do it.

1. Edmonton is a building team that's not really a contender yet. Doesn't make sense for them to give up more talent for some locker room/leadership presence yet. Maybe next year. Not now.

2. Boston is a contender. Doesn't make sense to break up any chemistry on a team from which all reports say get along fantastic.
Not enough talent coming to replace that. Corey Perry yes.
This trade no.

I am going to suggest that Edmonton wouldnt be that short sighted. Horton/Ference are young enough to be effective players for 5-6 years to come if you can convince them to sign. They are guys you can win with in the future.

Boston is a contender true... but wouldnt they still be a contender after this deal? What I like for Boston is the trade addresses some issues for next year when the cap is going to be a huge problem for us. Hemsky at 1/2 cost fits the team's budget. Horton resigned as an UFA doesnt. Perry really really really doesnt.

Alberta_OReilly_Fan 03-03-2013 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duul (Post 60846359)
The Oilers are not going to trade Smid, especially for a downgrade on defence. As nice as it would be to get Horton, the 1st round pick is basically a 2nd rounder for us and I don't think Horton makes up the difference for Hemsky and Paajarvi.

wouldnt you feel way more comfortable with your statement if he was resigned to an extension? whats the holdup? i think smid is going to be wanting north of 5 mill to resign. does a young team on the bubble for making the playoffs and showing obvious needs that could be met with this deal, choose instead to keep a guy they arent prepared to pay?

if you want to tell me youd hate to see Smid dealt... I will tell you I understand. I am asking for him cause I think hed help my bruins alot for this years cup run. But remember again he is an UFA too. Boston cant afford to keep him.

Why cant Edmonton deal him to Boston to give him some experience with a good team... then resign him if they plan to sign him anyhow? Boston could even do a gentleman's agreement to trade Smid's rights back to Edmonton once the season is done.

I mean... theres no law against this right?

Alberta_OReilly_Fan 03-03-2013 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jumptheshark (Post 60845371)
Flaw is also that I do not see sign and trades happening in the NHL.

I see both Horton and Ference trying the open market

If I had the concusion problems Horton did the last 2 years {both of which he spent the entire offseason as a huge question mark} then I would be very very very very nervous finishing out this year without a contract in place.

Boston has alot of reasons they cant give him one now {they cant afford it}
Edmonton though is in a better situation for their cap management.

As for Ference. I guess I am assuming as an older player he probably doesnt want to move his family around alot as his career winds down. he will never be more then a 5/6 dman. 5/6 dman get dealt alot in their later years. he is ideally suited to be an Oiler having been born in Edmonton and having family/friends in the area as well as playing for calgary before and being happy there. I think its very possible Ference would give up the option of testing UFA if Edmonton gave him a NTC and a long term deal.

I think Edmonton has plenty of reason to be willing to give Ference a long term deal and a NTC if he agrees to a reasonable cap hit. He will get an A and be a huge part of their leadership restructuring along with the kids once Hemsky/Horcorff are moved out to open the spots up.

The Dangley One 03-03-2013 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan (Post 60846755)
I am going to suggest that Edmonton wouldnt be that short sighted. Horton/Ference are young enough to be effective players for 5-6 years to come if you can convince them to sign. They are guys you can win with in the future.

Boston is a contender true... but wouldnt they still be a contender after this deal? What I like for Boston is the trade addresses some issues for next year when the cap is going to be a huge problem for us. Hemsky at 1/2 cost fits the team's budget. Horton resigned as an UFA doesnt. Perry really really really doesnt.

Yes, but I feel like Horton fits better with the bruins. smid would be a nice piece for the bruins, but I don't feel like hemsky fits the bruins style of play. It would make more sense to trade picks/prospects for smid.

Something like koko 1st for smid (this could be way off, not sure how highly the Oliers value smid) bruins shouldn't be subtracting from there cup winning core imo

Fourier 03-03-2013 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan (Post 60846837)
If I had the concusion problems Horton did the last 2 years {both of which he spent the entire offseason as a huge question mark} then I would be very very very very nervous finishing out this year without a contract in place.

Boston has alot of reasons they cant give him one now {they cant afford it}
Edmonton though is in a better situation for their cap management.

As for Ference. I guess I am assuming as an older player he probably doesnt want to move his family around alot as his career winds down. he will never be more then a 5/6 dman. 5/6 dman get dealt alot in their later years. he is ideally suited to be an Oiler having been born in Edmonton and having family/friends in the area as well as playing for calgary before and being happy there. I think its very possible Ference would give up the option of testing UFA if Edmonton gave him a NTC and a long term deal.

I think Edmonton has plenty of reason to be willing to give Ference a long term deal and a NTC if he agrees to a reasonable cap hit. He will get an A and be a huge part of their leadership restructuring along with the kids once Hemsky/Horcorff are moved out to open the spots up.

Here is a question for you...Would the Bruins deal Horton to Edmonton for Hemsky if the Oilers carried half of the salary?

I ask because this is the part of the deal that makes sense from the Oilers perspective. Of course absent cap issues they don't do this deal. But as it is Horton will be tough to resign without making a fair number of other moves. Hemsky at $2.5M even for one year is a very good asset.

The Bruins have roughly $11M next year to sign 7 players. Assuming Rask gets $5M which is not at all unreasonable for a guy with his numbers, that leaves $6M for 6 slots.

Otherwise, Smid and Paajarvi for Ference and a very late first rounder is a big win for the Bruins. I don't see the Oilers wanting to do as well as exchanging Hemsky and $2.5M in cap space for a player who might well become a UFA if Boston does not sign him.

774coach 03-03-2013 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dangley One (Post 60845597)
Boston should not be giving up any of its core that won the cup. Only should be adding to it by dealing prospects and picks

Thank You !

Fourier 03-03-2013 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 774coach (Post 60848145)
Thank You !

So how do they do this and stay under the cap?

Alberta_OReilly_Fan 03-03-2013 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourier (Post 60848111)
Here is a question for you...Would the Bruins deal Horton to Edmonton for Hemsky if the Oilers carried half of the salary?

I ask because this is the part of the deal that makes sense from the Oilers perspective. Of course absent cap issues they don't do this deal. But as it is Horton will be tough to resign without making a fair number of other moves. Hemsky at $2.5M even for one year is a very good asset.

The Bruins have roughly $11M next year to sign 7 players. Assuming Rask gets $5M which is not at all unreasonable for a guy with his numbers, that leaves $6M for 6 slots.

Otherwise, Smid and Paajarvi for Ference and a very late first rounder is a big win for the Bruins. I don't see the Oilers wanting to do as well as exchanging Hemsky and $2.5M in cap space for a player who might well become a UFA if Boston does not sign him.

i havent heard anything reguarding rumors one way or the other if Boston is considering moving Horton but I can see some logic in this move. The Horton/Lucic/Horton line has had moments over the past couple years where they havent really clicked on all cylnders. They had a hard time last year being plus players even when our team was going great. Obviously, for two years in a roll, Horton has finished the season on the IRL with a concusion. And now he is a pending ufa on a team that has cap issues looming.

So, I think it is at least possible that the team might make this move. I personally am not a very big fan of Hemsky and I wouldn't really be interested in this move myself. To me, Hemsky is the type of a guy a winning team is willing to give up to get a rental like Horton for the playoff run. By himself, Hemsky wouldnt really interest me enough to take this type of gamble. Obviously though, I dont make Boston's decesions for the team and so far they haven't given Horton an extension so read into that what you wish.


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