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-   -   Rumor: Re-signings of Flip and Cleary (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1366563)

InjuredChoker 03-04-2013 10:39 AM

Re-signings of Flip and Cleary
 
By Jim Matheson from Edmonton Journal

Quote:

- The Detroit Red Wings are in a pickle with Val Filppula, who has tons of ability but has never really broken through to star status. He makes $3 million US now, and sources say he’d like $4.5 million or so in a new deal when he’s an unrestricted free agent July 1. That’s too rich for Detroit, but what if Pavel Datsyuk, 34, returns to Russia after his contract ends in 2014? “They know that’s a possibility,” said one NHL executive. Then, they need the Filppula, who’s 28.
Quote:

The Detroit Red Wings have to decide this summer whether to re-up former Oilers winger Daniel Cleary, whose body has started to betray him the last few years with a string of injuries. Cleary, 34, always plays hard, but they probably won’t pay him $2.8 million any longer. Maybe the same two-year deal Todd Bertuzzi got ($3.85 million)
http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments...ilppula-cleary

SoupNazi 03-04-2013 10:41 AM

I really don't think Cleary gets any more than a tryout like Draper and Maltby got before they were forced to retire.

I'd be surprised if he ends up back here. Someone else will beat us, if even by $100k. And if the rumors about him hating Babcock are true, I doubt he'd re-up anyway.

shadoz19 03-04-2013 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoupNazi (Post 60934261)
I really don't think Cleary gets any more than a tryout like Draper and Maltby got before they were forced to retire.

I'd be surprised if he ends up back here. Someone else will beat us, if even by $100k. And if the rumors about him hating Babcock are true, I doubt he'd re-up anyway.

Draper and Maltby were healthy scratches in their last years. Cleary has not been. I think they will try to keep him, but at less money. Should still be interesting with all the kids coming up.

RedWingsNow* 03-04-2013 10:58 AM

Cleary should be told "Thanks, but we need to to go in a new direction."

No cheap offers. No tryouts. That's unnacceptable.

We're going to bringing Tatar and Andersson back to Detroit next year after they get demoted. We've got to bring Nyquist up.

As for flip, if all he wants is $4.5M, he's worth it. And with Datsyuk's future up the air, we can't afford to let him walk away

So to recap:
Miller- Let him walk.
Cleary- Let him walk

And then you've still got
Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Brunner
Franzen
Flip
Bertuzzi
Sammy
Helm
Tatar
Tootoo
Abdelkader
Eaves
Nyquist
Andersson

There's 14 forwards-- a full roster before you've even started thinking about any UFAs.

Plus, I think guys like Ferraro/Sheahan/Jarnkrok are going to push for spots.

ProPAIN 03-04-2013 11:01 AM

Filppula and Cleary can be replaced. Especially Cleary. Filppula has tons of skill, but lacks aggression/determination. He hardly shoots the puck and never goes to the net. When he actually does, like last year, he has a career year. I wouldn't mind having him back next year, but not for an overpayment.

I'm done with Cleary. Someone like Sheahan can replace him. Play in the bottom 6, PP screen and PK.

I'd be very disappointed in Holland if he decides to retain Cleary regardless of the price. He just takes up a roster spot like Sammy and Bert. You need veterans on your team, but not at the expense of improving it.

I wonder what they could get if they packaged (either in one or separate deals) Cleary, Filppula, Abdelkader, Quincey, some prospects and picks.

I'd go ahead and buyout one of Bert or Sammy and Colaiacovo. Get some real re-building done.

joe89 03-04-2013 11:03 AM

If Pavel goes home to play, Fil isn't the answer anyway. That is not a factor for me when it comes to a re-signing. I see him as a winger going forward on this team, who depending on his center will score between 50-65 points.

Run the Jewels 03-04-2013 11:04 AM

If they have to buy out Franzen, which I am on record as saying it's inevitable that they do, then I think it becomes much easier to sign Filppula. Mule is a declining asset and Filppula is coming off a career year last season. Filppula can obviously help himself by scoring more when he comes back from the IR, but I'd be shocked if they let him walk.

With Cleary I hope the most they do is year to year deals if anything. He's a trooper but it's obvious the decline has been swift and brutal. There is no way he should get another multi-year contract in Detroit.

Jussha 03-04-2013 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fading Captain (Post 60935253)
Cleary should be told "Thanks, but we need to to go in a new direction."

No cheap offers. No tryouts. That's unnacceptable.

We're going to bringing Tatar and Andersson back to Detroit next year after they get demoted. We've got to bring Nyquist up.

As for flip, if all he wants is $4.5M, he's worth it. And with Datsyuk's future up the air, we can't afford to let him walk away

So to recap:
Miller- Let him walk.
Cleary- Let him walk

And then you've still got
Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Brunner
Franzen
Flip
Bertuzzi
Sammy
Helm
Tatar
Tootoo
Abdelkader
Eaves
Nyquist
Andersson

There's 14 forwards-- a full roster before you've even started thinking about any UFAs.

Plus, I think guys like Ferraro/Sheahan/Jarnkrok are going to push for spots.

If Bertuzzi continues to not recover this season, I honestly think he will call it a career at the end of this season. He will still count against the cap, but at this point his 1.8 million is pretty insignificant I don't think it will be a big deal, or he does Holland a favor, doesn't retire and goes on LTIR, but that puts us at 13 forwards. I also think Eaves (as much as I like the guy) might get traded at the deadline or in the offseason. Even with his struggles, at 4.5 million I think you gotta keep Flip.

My 2013-14 roster

Franzen - Zetterberg - Brunner

Filppula - Datsyuk - Perry/Clowe

(in an old PuckDaddy Interview, I'm pretty certain Dats said if he could have any 2 linemates they would be Joe Thornton and Ryan Clowe)

Tatar - Sheahan - Nyquist

Tootoo - Helm - Abdelkader

spare forwards: Andersson/Samuelsson

Tatar is holding up very well on the third line against other teams 3rd lines, I'm pretty certain if his linemates were Sheahan & Nyquist they would just be as effective with a bit more offensive punch than what we are seeing now, and another offseason should hopefully get Nyquist the strength he needs to be able to play at the NHL level

Vladdy84 03-04-2013 11:11 AM

If Cleary gets resigned and Flip gets 4.5M... :cry:

Might need to find a second team.

Ricelund 03-04-2013 11:13 AM

I really don't think $4.5m is unreasonable for Filppula.

Cleary should be gone but Holland will probably give him a multi-year deal.

WingedWheel1987 03-04-2013 11:17 AM

The fact that the wings haven't already packed Cleary's bags is scary. He will get another contract because old washed up vets are very valuable and useful to rebuilding teams.

Flip can walk. Datsyuk leaving and replacing him with Flip turns you into a lottery team. Wings can be a lottery team for a lot less than 4.5 million.

TatarTangle 03-04-2013 11:17 AM

As long as Holland is at the helm you can guarantee Cleary will be getting a two year deal. Veterans > youth

HTT3* 03-04-2013 11:23 AM

I wouldn't give Cleary more than $2.5 per year for 2 years. They should lock Filpulla up long term at a discount.

last_sd 03-04-2013 11:23 AM

Do not want Cleary. We need roster spot for young players.

Flip at 4.5M, I am not so sure about.

We shouldn't be signing him thinking that he will take 2nd line C spot when/if Datsyuk leaves.

I would value Flip only as a winger/3rd line C.
Lupul, Grobovski got 5M deals not so long ago.

Flip at 3~3.5M for few years I would be happy about. 4M+ I would look at what other players I can get in FA before signing Flip.

BinCookin 03-04-2013 11:26 AM

Daniel Cleary

What I think:

Cleary should have salary reduced to 1.3 mil (1.5 for loyalty) and demoted to the 3rd/4th
OR
Since our 3rd/4th line has alot of young talent ready to come on the scene, trade Cleary for prospects/picks (whatever we can get)

What I expect to happen:

Due to his playing time, it seems management likes him.
He will be extended to the Bert deal, 2mil per year for 2 years.


Common theme: He is definitely getting a Cut in Salary at minimum.

Valterri Filppula

What I think:

4.5 Million huh? Well we do have lots of money to spend. But come on man. 4.5? Maybe you get this last year. But this year?? Makes us reconsider. Plus this is how I think of things:

70-75+ Points per season: 1st line player: pays you the big bucks: 3x 6.5 million (19.5Mil)
45-60 Points per season: 2nd liner: pays you well: 3x 3-4 million (10Mil)
20-35 Points per season: 3rd liner: pays you ok: 3x 1.5-2.5 million (6Mil)
10-15 points per season: 4th liner: pays you poorly: 3x 0.8-1million (3Mil)

Top D men (4-5 million) x2 (10Mil)
3/4 Dmen (3 million) x2 (6Mil)
5/6 Dmen (1 million) x2 (2Mil)

Top Goalie 4-5 Million
Backup 1.5 million

Total 19.5+10+6+3+10+6+2+5+1.5=63 Million

(You know I didn't even fiddle with these numbers, just seems to work out about right first try, wow GJ me :) )

This puts Filppula in a clear category. 45-60 pt per season player, 3-4 Million.
I think 4.5 Is for a team with no first line players and requires all good 2nd liners to make a solid team. But Filppula has not performed that well. So really I think:

Filppula is worth 3.25
For Loyalty 3.5
Team discount by him (maybe 0.25-0.3)
UFA required to overpay 4 Mil.

I do not think he is worth 4.5


What Management likely thinks:

Ok we agree with you here on 4 Mil.
But he walks without 4.25-4.4.... So we are going to overpay and sign him.

Damn you holland... OK :P (I can live with it, but I don't like it)

Kronwalled55 03-04-2013 11:30 AM

In a bad UFA year, Filppula is certainly worth 4.5. If there was a little more out there, we could reasonably explore other options.

As for Cleary, it's like the Samuelsson signing. You just know it's coming.

Jurky 03-04-2013 11:41 AM

I will seriously find and egg KH's house if he brings Cleary back, not even for a try out I just want him gone. He brings nothing to the top 6 and anything he brings to the bottom 6 can easily be replaced and then some.
Thanks for the good years Danny Boy, but we don't need you any more.

As for Filp, I think 4.5 is pretty reasonable considering the UFA contracts being thrown around in recent years, but signing him should come down to the UFA options we have. If we have a reasonable shot at Perry, Semin, Horton, Smid, or hell even Iginla (short term) then I'd be ok with letting Filp walk and trying to give his 4.5 to one or two of the UFAs. We use him as a winger anyway so he's pretty replaceable.
In a perfect world I'd like to see KH keep Fil and buy out Franzen in order to make space for any UFAs but we all know that isn't going to happen.

Winger98 03-04-2013 11:46 AM

The Cleary bit sounds like pure conjecture on Matheson's part. If he has a source that has told him the Wings are going to wait, though, I think that's saying Cleary is effectively gone, and the Wings aren't planning on entertaining negotiations unless they have to.

The bit about Flip is pretty much what's been knocked around here. We are not going to get a replacement for Datsyuk in the near future barring a very lucky bounce in free agency. Flip, or someone similar, would be needed to cushion the blow a bit, and keep us competitive.

However, if Flip walks and we don't sign someone, that would look like a huge opening for Sheahan or Jarnkrok for next year's lineup.

Henkka 03-04-2013 12:15 PM

Quote:

By Jim Matheson

"Wings have to decide..."
The decision is pretty easy. Cleary is as good as gone.


Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fading Captain (Post 60935253)
Cleary should be told "Thanks, but we need to to go in a new direction."

No cheap offers. No tryouts. That's unnacceptable.

We're going to bringing Tatar and Andersson back to Detroit next year after they get demoted. We've got to bring Nyquist up.

As for flip, if all he wants is $4.5M, he's worth it. And with Datsyuk's future up the air, we can't afford to let him walk away

So to recap:
Miller- Let him walk.
Cleary- Let him walk


And then you've still got
Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Brunner
Franzen
Flip
Bertuzzi
Sammy
Helm
Tatar
Tootoo
Abdelkader
Eaves
Nyquist
Andersson

There's 14 forwards-- a full roster before you've even started thinking about any UFAs.

Plus, I think guys like Ferraro/Sheahan/Jarnkrok are going to push for spots.

That's kind of no-brainer what will happen. We also could go after Perry and make some room buying Eaves out, if we get him. Othervise Eaves can stay.

CloneHakanPlease* 03-04-2013 12:20 PM

Some other team will overpay Flip by a lot. He plays Forward on Detroit and has a european name. Thats enough mystique to give him a 15% raise on what he really deserves

JmanWingsFan 03-04-2013 12:29 PM

If we're going to spend $4.5 Million on a player, might as well spend it on Nathan Horton. Danny Cleary should be as good as gone.

RedWingsNow* 03-04-2013 12:29 PM

Well, unless the Wings are willing to overspend on a big North American power forward, they're going to have to overspend on the Wing with European Red Wing mystique.

Guys like Perry and Getzlaf, if they even hit the market, are going to demand huge dollars.

Xvash2 03-04-2013 12:31 PM

$4.5mil is good in a $70 million cap era, but with less money to work with, I'd say $4 million is what he is worth.

SoupNazi 03-04-2013 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HTT3 (Post 60936699)
I wouldn't give Cleary more than $2.5 per year for 2 years. They should lock Filpulla up long term at a discount.

I wouldn't give Cleary anything more than a plane ticket out of town if that's his demand.

Heaton 03-04-2013 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoupNazi (Post 60940859)
I wouldn't give Cleary anything more than a plane ticket out of town if that's his demand.

I think he might mean 2.5m total.


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