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-   -   NYT: Bargaining for Rights in Exchange for NHL in Olympics (UPD: Daly in Sochi) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1367515)

Fugu 03-05-2013 01:11 AM

NYT: Bargaining for Rights in Exchange for NHL in Olympics (UPD: Daly in Sochi)
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/04/sp...pics.html?_r=0

Quote:

The talks hinge on one overarching issue: whether the N.H.L. can extract extra rights and considerations from the I.O.C. and the I.I.H.F. in exchange for suspending business for two weeks at midseason and risking injury to its players.

But the I.O.C. and the I.I.H.F. are believed to be reluctant to grant such concessions. It could set a precedent for other professional leagues that send players to the Olympics to ask for similar deals.
Officials have not disclosed the full list of what the N.H.L. is seeking, but the league is known to want the right to use Olympic video on the NHL Network, NHL.com and other league platforms. The N.H.L. is currently not allowed to use such videos. That means the clip of Sidney Crosby’s gold-medal-winning goal for Canada against the United States at the 2010 Vancouver Olympics has never been shown on an N.H.L. Web site, television show or arena scoreboard.

...

The N.H.L. may also be seeking some form of financial compensation or increased perquisites for participating in the Olympics. René Fasel, the president of the I.I.H.F., said in 2011 that such an arrangement was out of the question.

“The money should not be an issue because the issue is solved,” Fasel said then. “We do not have any money, and it is very easy.”

Fasel is a member of the I.O.C. executive board and president of the group of seven Olympic winter sports federations that receives a large share of revenues from the Winter Olympics. Last month, he and Bettman met in New York for two days with Richard Carrión, the chairman of the I.O.C. finance commission and a member of the I.O.C. marketing and television rights and new media commissions.
Would it really be the end of the world if they received the rights to highlights from Olympics broadcasts?

I think the NHL does want some money, and seeing how huge of a draw men's ice hockey is for the Winter Games-- I don't blame them for trying to get a cut. The risk and cost to NHL teams is not insignificant.

saskganesh 03-05-2013 01:56 AM

The NHL does bring a lot to the table, so in the interests of a healthy partnership, I am rather sympathetic.

Now there's also a third party involved: NBC, who holds the NHL contract and the Olympic broadcast rights. So maybe the NHL should hit them up for more money.

TheDevilMadeMe 03-05-2013 02:49 AM

As much as I love seeing NHLers play in the Olympics, I'm completely on the NHL's side in this. Men's ice hockey is the Winters Olympics' biggest moneymaker. Why allow the Olympics to make big money off of NHL players under contract when the NHL isn't even allowed to use footage from those events in marketing?

saskganesh 03-05-2013 05:57 AM

Here's my question... couldn't they just get NBC's footage?

Crease 03-05-2013 07:42 AM

The NHL cannot currently use any Olympic footage. It's the reason why the highlight of Crosby scoring in OT to clinch the gold medal for Canada has not been shown once on an NHL scoreboard, NHL website, or NHL tv broadcast.

The IOC needs the NHL pros more than the NHL needs the IOC. Both sides know this. It'll be interesting to see what kind of deal they come up with.

Kane One 03-05-2013 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugu (Post 60992089)
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/04/sp...pics.html?_r=0



Would it really be the end of the world if they received the rights to highlights from Olympics broadcasts?

I think the NHL does want some money, and seeing how huge of a draw men's ice hockey is for the Winter Games-- I don't blame them for trying to get a cut. The risk and cost to NHL teams is not insignificant.

Would it be the end of the world if they were allowed to show highlights? Well, not for the IOC, but I can't see why NBC would be happy paying well over a billion dollars for the rights to the Olympics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 60993655)
As much as I love seeing NHLers play in the Olympics, I'm completely on the NHL's side in this. Men's ice hockey is the Winters Olympics' biggest moneymaker. Why allow the Olympics to make big money off of NHL players under contract when the NHL isn't even allowed to use footage from those events in marketing?

Yep. I'm 100% on the NHL's side. I think the best move would be to negotiate with NBC over the rights rather than the IOC. How is the IOC supposed to give rights to something that they already sold? Not having NHLers in the Olympics will hurt NBC. Negotiate with them.

Jussi 03-05-2013 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saskganesh (Post 60995127)
Here's my question... couldn't they just get NBC's footage?

That's what I've been sort of saying, NBC has US rights, use that footage on NBC. Or if you really must use it online, just put a link to it on your website! For crying out loud, the whole final is freely available on IOC's own Youtube channel(simply called "olympics"), would it really be that hard to put a link to that? Or NBC could make highlights page on their website for US viewers which the NHL could put links to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crease (Post 60996787)
The NHL cannot currently use any Olympic footage. It's the reason why the highlight of Crosby scoring in OT to clinch the gold medal for Canada has not been shown once on an NHL scoreboard, NHL website, or NHL tv broadcast.

The IOC needs the NHL pros more than the NHL needs the IOC. Both sides know this. It'll be interesting to see what kind of deal they come up with.

Nope, there's pros outside the NHL more than enough. It's the NHL that needs the IOC, because that is the only time every 4 years that ice hockey/or NHL is globally relevant. No NHL or World Cup game will ever get the kind of ratings the Olympics will.

Kane One 03-05-2013 07:57 AM

I think the NHL cares more about if the NHL is nationally relevant than globally relevant. If the Olympics are in Russia in a city that no one here heard of, where games are at 4:00 in the morning, I think don't think there's really much to lose.

I'm pretty sure the top three most watched Olympic Hockey games in the US were in 1980, 2002, and 2010. Those three were in North America.

vwg* 03-05-2013 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parker McDonald (Post 60997121)
I think the NHL cares more about if the NHL is nationally relevant than globally relevant. If the Olympics are in Russia in a city that no one here heard of, where games are at 4:00 in the morning, I think don't think there's really much to lose.

I'm pretty sure the top three most watched Olympic Hockey games in the US were in 1980, 2002, and 2010. Those three were in North America.

Pretty much this.

Let's see how many people watch Olympic ice hockey if the NHL doesn't allow the players to participate. It'll just be another international tournament no one really gives a damn about.

agentblack 03-05-2013 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crease (Post 60996787)
The NHL cannot currently use any Olympic footage. It's the reason why the highlight of Crosby scoring in OT to clinch the gold medal for Canada has not been shown once on an NHL scoreboard, NHL website, or NHL tv broadcast.

The IOC needs the NHL pros more than the NHL needs the IOC. Both sides know this. It'll be interesting to see what kind of deal they come up with.

They dont actually IMO. Players choose to go the games because of the status of playing at the event and the chance to compete and win gold on an international stage. If a professional or the league they represent make a profit straight from the IOC itself that just sets up a bad precedent in the future.

Jussi 03-05-2013 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parker McDonald (Post 60997121)
I think the NHL cares more about if the NHL is nationally relevant than globally relevant.

Well the same applies to the US. NHL games will never get Olympic level ratings in the US and without Olympic participation, the players will be even less known.

Since people still have misconceptions about the Olympic revenue distribution, here's the link again: http://www.olympic.org/ioc-financing...s-distribution

Jussi 03-05-2013 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agentblack (Post 60997403)
They dont actually IMO. Players choose to go the games because of the status of playing at the event and the chance to compete and win gold on an international stage. If a professional or the league they represent make a profit straight from the IOC itself that just sets up a bad precedent in the future.

Other sports leagues would try to do the same and that is a path the IOC won't go on.

Crease 03-05-2013 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agentblack (Post 60997403)
They dont actually IMO. Players choose to go the games because of the status of playing at the event and the chance to compete and win gold on an international stage. If a professional or the league they represent make a profit straight from the IOC itself that just sets up a bad precedent in the future.

The players can't just choose to participate. It has to be in conjunction with NHL (the league) approval. The NHL (the league) does not stand to gain much from shortening their revenue-generating operations so that their workforce can participate in games that will be airing on tape delay in North America. The IOC on the other hand, is going to have a hell of a time getting people in the stands and eyeballs on the TV sets if NHL players aren't involved.

The NHL (the league) allowed their workforce to participate in the Vancouver games because they knew it would garner interest from casual sports fans in North America. Time zone is a huge factor here. A hockey game during breakfast time on a weekday is not compelling tv for Joe Schmoe in Wisconsin. Nor is a game on tape delay when the outcome is already water cooler talk.

IU Hawks fan 03-05-2013 08:17 AM

No guys, they can't just USE NBC's footage. That's not how broadcast rights work.

patnyrnyg 03-05-2013 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jussi (Post 60997483)
Other sports leagues would try to do the same and that is a path the IOC won't go on.

What leagues shut down their season to participate in the Olympics? I could see the NBA trying to get money or other consideration from the IOC, but it is not played in season so not sure the league could realistically prevent the players from playing.

Grudy0 03-05-2013 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saskganesh (Post 60995127)
Here's my question... couldn't they just get NBC's footage?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jussi (Post 60997023)
That's what I've been sort of saying, NBC has US rights, use that footage on NBC. Or if you really must use it online, just put a link to it on your website! For crying out loud, the whole final is freely available on IOC's own Youtube channel(simply called "olympics"), would it really be that hard to puta link to that? Or NBC could make highlights page on their website for US viewers which the NHL could put links to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parker McDonald (Post 60996933)
Would it be the end of the world if they were allowed to show highlights? Well, not for the IOC, but I can't see why NBC would be happy paying well over a billion dollars for the rights to the Olympics.

Yep. I'm 100% on the NHL's side. I think the best move would be to negotiate with NBC over the rights rather than the IOC. How is the IOC supposed to give rights to something that they already sold? Not having NHLers in the Olympics will hurt NBC. Negotiate with them.

Copyrights are different...

As the official broadcasting partner, NBC has been given the right to use the highlights in perpetuity. However, everyone else must negotiate for use of "rebroadcasts".

Think about it. It's news. Yet you don't see any Olympic highlights on the 11:00 PM news on a different network because the IOC has retained all rebroadcast rights.

The pro leagues here want their highlights on the news, so there is a "clearinghouse" that allows for rebroadcasts as use of snippets. Because the IOC is worldwide, and because their US broadcasting partner pays so much for the rights to broadcast, they have these barriers. However, because the IOC retains rebroadcast rights, the NHL can't just go to NBC to get the footage; they have to then clear it with the IOC!

It works this way for most leagues, but again, most leagues "clearinghouse" the rights so that snippets are allowed to be shown, just not the IOC.

patnyrnyg 03-05-2013 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jussi (Post 60997433)
Well the same applies to the US. NHL games will never get Olympic level ratings in the US and without Olympic participation, the players will be even less known.

Since people still have misconceptions about the Olympic revenue distribution, here's the link again: http://www.olympic.org/ioc-financing...s-distribution

The Olympics do not really help the NHL. The once every four years fans are not flocking to their local teams after the games are over anymore than fans of the Fab-5 (womens gymnastics) are flocking to their next non-olympic event).

patnyrnyg 03-05-2013 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parker McDonald (Post 60997121)
I think the NHL cares more about if the NHL is nationally relevant than globally relevant. If the Olympics are in Russia in a city that no one here heard of, where games are at 4:00 in the morning, I think don't think there's really much to lose.

I'm pretty sure the top three most watched Olympic Hockey games in the US were in 1980, 2002, and 2010. Those three were in North America.

This is really it. I believe Sochi is 10 hours ahead of the ETZ. So, a game starting at 8pm over there is going to be live here at 10am. People will watch on weekends, but that is about it.

Chileiceman 03-05-2013 08:23 AM

I'm with the NHL here. The IOC restrictions on footage are ridiculous

agentblack 03-05-2013 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crease (Post 60997567)
The NHL (the league) does not stand to gain much from shortening their revenue-generating operations so that their workforce can participate in games that will be airing on tape delay in North America. The IOC on the other hand, is going to have a hell of a time getting people in the stands and eyeballs on the TV sets if NHL players aren't involved.

The NHL allowed their workforce to participate in the Vancouver games because they knew it would garner interest from casual sports fans in North America. Time zone is a huge factor here. A hockey game at 4am on a weeknight is not not compelling tv for Joe Schmoe in Wisconsin.

Well we can agree to disagree here, I mean its not like olympic hockey didnt exist before 1998 iifc. And isnt it the NHLPA thats spearheading the involvement in the games? Your comment makes it seem like the scenario from a player is "Oh gee wizz do we have to go id rather stay home." Most, if not all players WANT to go, they dont have to. im not saying that as fact just my sense of things. The league and the owners group im pretty sure would rather not be there.

Crease 03-05-2013 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agentblack (Post 60997913)
Well we can agree to disagree here, I mean its not like olympic hockey didnt exist before 1998 iifc. And isnt it the NHLPA thats spearheading the involvement in the games? Your comment makes it seem like the scenario from a player is "Oh gee wizz do we have to go id rather stay home." Most, if not all players WANT to go, they dont have to. im not saying that as fact just my sense of things. The league and the owners group im pretty sure would rather not be there.

Not sure where you got that from. I said that the IOC needs the NHL's players more than the NHL needs the IOC. Note I didn't say pros in the second part of that sentence. Never once mentioned anything about players desire here, which by the way is all but moot. The league doesn't need the Sochi games to boost interest in North America. The time zones are too far apart.

Jussi 03-05-2013 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crease (Post 60998011)
Not sure where you got that from. I said that the IOC needs the NHL's players more than the NHL needs the IOC. Note I didn't say pros in the second part of that sentence. Never once mentioned anything about players desire here, which by the way is all but moot. The league doesn't need the Sochi games to boost interest in North America. The time zones are too far apart.

Can you give evidence of that? From what I recall, the hockey games in Lillehammer and even Albertville were well attended.

Sgt Osiris 03-05-2013 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jussi (Post 60998171)
Can you give evidence of that? From what I recall, the hockey games in Lillehammer and even Albertville were well attended.

I can't recall actual ratings/attendance figures for Lillehammer, but I do remember hockey was merely a blip of background noise compared to figure skating due to Tonya Harding etc.

1994 might be a bad year to compare to.

Pilky01 03-05-2013 08:43 AM

I support the NHL 100%.

They give away an incredibly valuable service and receive next to nothing in return.

patnyrnyg 03-05-2013 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agentblack (Post 60997913)
Well we can agree to disagree here, I mean its not like olympic hockey didnt exist before 1998 iifc. And isnt it the NHLPA thats spearheading the involvement in the games? Your comment makes it seem like the scenario from a player is "Oh gee wizz do we have to go id rather stay home." Most, if not all players WANT to go, they dont have to. im not saying that as fact just my sense of things. The league and the owners group im pretty sure would rather not be there.

Pre-92, it was a political thing. The whole capitalism vs communism. Once that ended, the amateurs playing didnt have the same appeal. I watched in 92, because I knew Zubov and Kovalev were Rangers property. In 94, I don't think I watched a single game. 1980 was a different animal. US college players beating a team that had beaten the NHL and had beaten NHL All-star teams. Without NHLers, it might be a college all-star team if the NCAA decides to shut down. Not sure who would play for other teams.


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