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-   -   Proposal: Nyr - ott (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1367921)

Zorf 03-05-2013 01:51 PM

Nyr - ott
 
Michalek + 3rd for Gaborik

Brakedown:

Rangers are facing a cap crunch next season with key players requiring RFA contracts.
Michalek comes in with a $4.33M cap hit ($6M in actual salary), and provides a legit top 6 scoring winger. Let's be honest, the actual salary dollars does not matter to the Rangers.

Gaborik comes with a $7.5M cap hit, and the Sens have a ridiculous amount of cap space to easily absorb that contract.


There is no question that Gaborik is the more dangerous offensive player, but seeing the cap situation, Michalek is a solid replacement, saves $3.17M on the cap, and also comes with a 3rd to sweeten the pot.

I can't honestly comment on Gaborik's defensive game, but Michalek is no slouch there, and when healthy, is a regular on the Sens' PK.

I would say that both are equally injury prone, so that is a wash.

Thoughts? Comments?

NYR Viper 03-05-2013 01:54 PM

There has been some talk on the Rangers board about a Gaborik to OTT deal. What about:

Gaborik

for

Zib
Cowan/Ceci
1st

Or something along those lines

16 To Stanley* 03-05-2013 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorf (Post 61011917)
Michalek + 3rd for Gaborik

Brakedown:

Rangers are facing a cap crunch next season with key players requiring RFA contracts.
Michalek comes in with a $4.33M cap hit ($6M in actual salary), and provides a legit top 6 scoring winger. Let's be honest, the actual salary dollars does not matter to the Rangers.

Gaborik comes with a $7.5M cap hit, and the Sens have a ridiculous amount of cap space to easily absorb that contract.


There is no question that Gaborik is the more dangerous offensive player, but seeing the cap situation, Michalek is a solid replacement, saves $3.17M on the cap, and also comes with a 3rd to sweeten the pot.

I can't honestly comment on Gaborik's defensive game, but Michalek is no slouch there, and when healthy, is a regular on the Sens' PK.

I would say that both are equally injury prone, so that is a wash.

Thoughts? Comments?

Absolutely not. A 3rd doesn't cut the difference between michalek and gaborik. And Michalek is more injury prone than Gaborik i think at this point in there careers.

Marvelous Manked 03-05-2013 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 (Post 61012047)
There has been some talk on the Rangers board about a Gaborik to OTT deal. What about:

Gaborik

for

Zib
Cowan/Ceci
1st

Or something along those lines

Absolutely not. No way. No chance in hell.

We're in no position to need to give up our #1 forward prospect, #1 defensive prospect, and a 1st Round Pick that can still be pretty high in this draft for Marian Gaborik.

The first deal I'd do in a heartbeat (obviously, cause Rangers fan will have the same reaction to that as I did to the other), but the second deal isn't even gross. Eww. Gross.

Zorf 03-05-2013 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 (Post 61012047)
There has been some talk on the Rangers board about a Gaborik to OTT deal. What about:

Gaborik

for

Zib
Cowan/Ceci
1st

Or something along those lines

Sens are too committed to the rebuild to trade young assets at this point, in my opinion.

Sens also don't have a 2nd in this draft...guess 3rd could become 2nd in the 2014 draft.

Milan the God* 03-05-2013 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 (Post 61012047)
There has been some talk on the Rangers board about a Gaborik to OTT deal. What about:

Gaborik

for

Zib
Cowan/Ceci
1st

Or something along those lines

The Sens wouldn't even look at that. Gaborik has a huge contract and isn't living up to it right now. No way we'd be giving the Rangers two very young good players that have contributed at the NHL level and shown they belong + a first round pick.

BankStreetParade 03-05-2013 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorf (Post 61011917)
Michalek + 3rd for Gaborik

Brakedown:

Rangers are facing a cap crunch next season with key players requiring RFA contracts.
Michalek comes in with a $4.33M cap hit ($6M in actual salary), and provides a legit top 6 scoring winger. Let's be honest, the actual salary dollars does not matter to the Rangers.

Gaborik comes with a $7.5M cap hit, and the Sens have a ridiculous amount of cap space to easily absorb that contract.


There is no question that Gaborik is the more dangerous offensive player, but seeing the cap situation, Michalek is a solid replacement, saves $3.17M on the cap, and also comes with a 3rd to sweeten the pot.

I can't honestly comment on Gaborik's defensive game, but Michalek is no slouch there, and when healthy, is a regular on the Sens' PK.

I would say that both are equally injury prone, so that is a wash.

Thoughts? Comments?

This is actually basically an equal trade. Very well done.

Boom Boom Geoffrion* 03-05-2013 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BankStreetParade (Post 61012471)
This is actually basically an equal trade. Very well done.

For Ottawa, yes.

For NY, not a chance in hell.

16 To Stanley* 03-05-2013 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BankStreetParade (Post 61012471)
This is actually basically an equal trade. Very well done.

It's really not.

NYR Viper 03-05-2013 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BankStreetParade (Post 61012471)
This is actually basically an equal trade. Very well done.

The Rangers wouldn't even consider this at all.

Zorf 03-05-2013 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley (Post 61012593)
It's really not.

the problem NYR has is that Gaborik is playing below expectations right now, has a massive contract, and the Rangers will be very tight next season with the cap dropping and McDonaugh, Hagelin and Stepan (I think?) all needing new deals.

by no means am I saying that Michalek is as good as Gaborik, but he does fill the roster hole rather adequately (he did score 35 goals last season), is solid defensively, and brings a MUCH needed $3+M in cap space.

I don't think it is that far off.

I can see the lure many Rangers fans have in hoping to acquire the younger talent that Ottawa has, but let's not forget that the Senators are only in year 2 of a rebuilding process. This is not the time to be trading young players.
Those moves happen when a team is close to being a contender and makes a trade of prospects/picks for a skilled vet to push them over the top.

KA BLAMO 03-05-2013 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 (Post 61012829)
The Rangers wouldn't even consider this at all.

Nor Ottawa for the trade you proposed.

MrG 03-05-2013 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 (Post 61012047)
There has been some talk on the Rangers board about a Gaborik to OTT deal. What about:

Gaborik

for

Zib
Cowan/Ceci
1st

Or something along those lines

No way. Cowen, Ceci and Zib are nearly untouchable. The only way Zib is moved is if the return is a home run impact player who will unquestionably fit with the culture of the young Sens room. I'm don't think Gaborik is that guy.

Michalek+3rd is a joke for Gaborik. If I'm the Sens I don't know what I'd even wanna throw on top of that for Gaborik. Not sure if I'd want to part with any of the Sens higher end prospects for him.

NYR Viper 03-05-2013 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorf (Post 61012895)
the problem NYR has is that Gaborik is playing below expectations right now, has a massive contract, and the Rangers will be very tight next season with the cap dropping and McDonaugh, Hagelin and Stepan (I think?) all needing new deals.

by no means am I saying that Michalek is as good as Gaborik, but he does fill the roster hole rather adequately (he did score 35 goals last season), is solid defensively, and brings a MUCH needed $3+M in cap space.

I don't think it is that far off.

I can see the lure many Rangers fans have in hoping to acquire the younger talent that Ottawa has, but let's not forget that the Senators are only in year 2 of a rebuilding process. This is not the time to be trading young players.
Those moves happen when a team is close to being a contender and makes a trade of prospects/picks for a skilled vet to push them over the top.

We have gone over this on our board many times, the Rangers can, pretty easily, fit everyone under the cap for next season. Gaborik does not HAVE to be moved and considering the core of the team is 27-32 now would be the time to go for it.

Unless the deal makes total sense for the Rangers both now and in the future I doubt the Rangers jump at anything.

Trxjw 03-05-2013 02:11 PM

The cap savings and a 3rd round pick are nowhere near enough to downgrade from Gaborik to Michalek.

Boom Boom Geoffrion* 03-05-2013 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorf (Post 61012895)
the problem NYR has is that Gaborik is playing below expectations right now, has a massive contract, and the Rangers will be very tight next season with the cap dropping and McDonaugh, Hagelin and Stepan (I think?) all needing new deals.

by no means am I saying that Michalek is as good as Gaborik, but he does fill the roster hole rather adequately (he did score 35 goals last season), is solid defensively, and brings a MUCH needed $3+M in cap space.

I don't think it is that far off.

I can see the lure many Rangers fans have in hoping to acquire the younger talent that Ottawa has, but let's not forget that the Senators are only in year 2 of a rebuilding process. This is not the time to be trading young players.
Those moves happen when a team is close to being a contender and makes a trade of prospects/picks for a skilled vet to push them over the top.

The problem with NYR?

We don't have a problem, actually. There are numerous corners that can be cut where Sather can secure funds necessary to retain his RFA's. Especially considering he sets up bridge contracts for his RFA's. He doesn't overpay them.

Rangers are trying to win now. Gaborik is a multi-40G scorer. Michalek's surpassed the 30G mark once in his career.

I'd love him here in Blue, but not for Gaborik. If the 3rd the best you could do, Rangers wouldn't even flinch. Immediate pass.

Gaborik +3rd
Michalek +1st

That's more realistic from our perspective, but I'd still probably pass considering we have this 2-year we're trying to capitalize on.

Altimus 03-05-2013 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trxjw (Post 61013263)
The cap savings and a 3rd round pick are nowhere near enough to downgrade from Gaborik to Michalek.

They both take up the same amount of space on the IR though.

Zorf 03-05-2013 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 (Post 61013197)
We have gone over this on our board many times, the Rangers can, pretty easily, fit everyone under the cap for next season. Gaborik does not HAVE to be moved and considering the core of the team is 27-32 now would be the time to go for it.

Unless the deal makes total sense for the Rangers both now and in the future I doubt the Rangers jump at anything.

Fair enough. I was under the impression that even with the guys taking slight discounts, it would still be really tight.

I think the sticking points are convincing Hagelin to take less than what his current play dictates, and hoping that McDonaugh stays in M. Staal realm for his contract.

I think in theory Sens - Rangers make sense, but from what I'm gathering, what both teams want isn't want both teams want to give up.


for the record, I think we're all at fault for overvaluing our players and undervaluing others. I think Michalek has more value than he's getting credit for here, but at the same time, I'm discrediting Gaborik for not hitting his expectations.

NYR Viper 03-05-2013 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorf (Post 61013563)
Fair enough. I was under the impression that even with the guys taking slight discounts, it would still be really tight.

I think the sticking points are convincing Hagelin to take less than what his current play dictates, and hoping that McDonaugh stays in M. Staal realm for his contract.

I think in theory Sens - Rangers make sense, but from what I'm gathering, what both teams want isn't want both teams want to give up.


for the record, I think we're all at fault for overvaluing our players and undervaluing others. I think Michalek has more value than he's getting credit for here, but at the same time, I'm discrediting Gaborik for not hitting his expectations.

What are Gaborik's expectations? He had 41 goals last year and he played in the playoffs with a separated shoulder.

Zorf 03-05-2013 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 (Post 61013785)
What are Gaborik's expectations? He had 41 goals last year and he played in the playoffs with a separated shoulder.



I laid out what it would cost to get a multiple time 40 goal scorer in his prime. What would the price be for Spezza?

I don't know what the separated shoulder has to do with anything, but his expectations are: roughly a 0.5 goal per game pace and damn near close to a ppg pace over a full season.

Right now he has 7 goals and 14 points in 20 games, both of which are below expectations.

spartachris 03-05-2013 02:28 PM

Gaborik does have value. He is a guy that could play top 3.....however this is not Malkin or Crosby here.

16 To Stanley* 03-05-2013 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorf (Post 61012895)
the problem NYR has is that Gaborik is playing below expectations right now, has a massive contract, and the Rangers will be very tight next season with the cap dropping and McDonaugh, Hagelin and Stepan (I think?) all needing new deals.

by no means am I saying that Michalek is as good as Gaborik, but he does fill the roster hole rather adequately (he did score 35 goals last season), is solid defensively, and brings a MUCH needed $3+M in cap space.

I don't think it is that far off.

I can see the lure many Rangers fans have in hoping to acquire the younger talent that Ottawa has, but let's not forget that the Senators are only in year 2 of a rebuilding process. This is not the time to be trading young players.
Those moves happen when a team is close to being a contender and makes a trade of prospects/picks for a skilled vet to push them over the top.

It's way far off. Michalek isn't on Gaboriks level. You've constantly said Gaborik is playing below expecations which is true, but guess what he still has 14 points in 20 games. Pretty good for a guy who hasn't been playing well, no.

He's also had 2 40 goal season in his last 3 years. Michalek has hit the 30 goal mark ONCE in his career. Gaboriks done it 7 times.

They are not even relatively close to equals. Gaborik is a huge part of our team and i really think the rangers will resign him once his contract is up.

Again, we will be fine fitting him under the cap as well. No more drury, redden, gomez, roszival, etc filling our cap. We can fit these guys.

This trade is brutal. A consistent 30/40 goal scorer in Gaborik can't be had for anything less than a quality package. He's so underrated on these boards it's sad.

Also he's missed a whopping 20 games in 4 seasons with the Rangers.

Boom Boom Geoffrion* 03-05-2013 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorf (Post 61014051)
I don't know what the separated shoulder has to do with anything, but his expectations are: roughly a 0.5 goal per game pace and damn near close to a ppg pace over a full season.

Right now he has 7 goals and 14 points in 20 games, both of which are below expectations.

14P in 20G and he's 'off'. Imagine what his numbers would look like if he was 'on'. And fact of the matter is, shoulder surgery takes longer than a few weeks to completely heal. It's not the main reason for his minor struggles, but it shouldn't be overlooked.

Cujomi 03-05-2013 02:32 PM

Not commenting on the trade proposal itself, but I don't know why this board exists. Almost every time a trade is proposed the team/person that is proposing it thinks its fair value and the other team almost always says it isn't. It seems like every team overvalues their own players and it just makes silly arguments about every single proposal ever made.

16 To Stanley* 03-05-2013 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cujomi (Post 61014535)
Not commenting on the trade proposal itself, but I don't know why this board exists. Almost every time a trade is proposed the team/person that is proposing it thinks its fair value and the other team almost always says it isn't. It seems like every time overvalues their own players and it just makes silly arguments about every single proposal ever made.

Tell me, how many players scored 40 goals last season.

Tell me, how many players have put up 100+ goals over the last 3 years.

Tell me, how many players have had 2 40 goal seasons in the last three.

Tell me the value of those guys and why Gaborik shouldn't be considered worth in the realm they are.


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