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-   -   Sean Couturier (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1368547)

PropJoe 03-05-2013 10:10 PM

Sean Couturier
 
Let me preface everything by saying like Couturier as a player and I'm aware that he's a great defensive center. That being said, I really don't know what people see in this guy from an offensive standpoint. I understand that his linemates are somewhat to blame but I really just don't see a lot from him with the puck. His board play is good but he's been horrible on the power play. His puck control through the neutral zone is also poor. His production has matched what looks like to me as a defeciency in offensive ability. Schenn has been one of our best players all year and at times looks like our best even strength player but the majority of the fan base values him lower than Couturier. I honestly just think that Couturier is overrated by this fan base (I even saw someone say that he should be the eventual first line center with Giroux on the wing which I find ridiculous) and that's why I'm a proponent of trading him for a good young defenseman.

My questions are, for the guys who value him highly, what do you see his offensive potential as? and who is a comparable player in their prime? (Jordan Staal looks like the absolute ceiling to me).

Also anyone out there like me who view Schenn and Voracek as more valuable developing players?

LegionOfDoom91 03-05-2013 10:16 PM

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up as a sophomore slump. With that said he hasn't showed much offensively to date. He still needs to work on his faceoffs to be consider an elite shut down guy. Other than that his defensive game has been good so far this season.

FlyingPhilly 03-05-2013 10:16 PM

I wouldn't trade Couturier at all, unless it was a massive overpayment. I think he can top out at ~70 points a season with elite defense. One of the main reasons I wouldn't trade Couts is because he really gets under Malkin's skin. I don't think anyone else on the Flyers would be able to slow Malkin down. For that alone I need something along the lines of high ceiling D-prospect + a good D-prospect + 1st at least to get me to move him.

I understand we have Laughton waiting to take over the role of defensive center, but I don't know if he can go against Malkin who is still pretty young himself. Laughton has a good defensive game, but he doesn't have the size. You can't teach size.

SuchySays 03-05-2013 10:16 PM

I'd like to hang on to him since he owns Malkin and others so hard

Beef Invictus 03-05-2013 10:18 PM

He's still really young.

MRxBLACK 03-05-2013 10:22 PM

Let's see how he would do in the top 6 first.

jabba2 03-05-2013 10:24 PM

He has the physical tools. Couturier seems to be overthinking things instead of reacting. I dont think his game or potential are overrated. Just needs some more experience and confidence when finishing plays. Schenn missed a wide open net tonight too.

healthyscratch 03-05-2013 10:24 PM

I love the kid and what he brings but if he can get us a Pietro or OEL then I might have to do it. :help:

sa cyred 03-05-2013 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beef Invictus (Post 61069705)
He's still really young.

Exactly. He just turned 20. There are a ton of NHL players who don't grow accustomed to the offensive game till their older. Like Schenn is 21 and seems to finally turned up his offense. Couturier has the tools to be good offensively. He didn't have a good game tonight but had a few great passes in front of the net and has a pretty good shot.

He seriously just needs to play with better players. Gags has slowed down about and talbot doesn't provide offense. Hoping with Read back this is different.

PropJoe 03-05-2013 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beef Invictus (Post 61069705)
He's still really young.

I understand that but the problem I see with his game is his speed. He seems like he really struggles to create space. Speed isn't something that generally gets better with age.

Mgkibbles 03-05-2013 10:26 PM

When Schenn was Couturier's age he was bouncing back and forth between the Juniors and the NHL. It'll take Couturier some time, but he's a very good passer, he had a terrific backhand pass from the corner to Talbot infront of the net tonight. He also has a really good shot wrist shot and excellent hands for someone his size. He'll put it together once he matures physically.

jabba2 03-05-2013 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PropJoe (Post 61070425)
I understand that but the problem I see with his game is his speed. He seems like he really struggles to create space. Speed isn't something that generally gets better with age.

He doesn't seem to have a problem with Malkin. Couturier is just overthinking right now. So he looks slow. It might take a few more years before he starts playing with confidence. He looked great at times last year.

Mgkibbles 03-05-2013 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PropJoe (Post 61070425)
I understand that but the problem I see with his game is his speed. He seems like he really struggles to create space. Speed isn't something that generally gets better with age.

It did with Tavares. Getting stronger, and with the proper training Couturier could end up being a decent skater. He'll never be Skinner, but he can be adequate.

FreshPerspective 03-05-2013 10:29 PM

He is 20 years old! Give the kid a break.....:shakehead

Beef Invictus 03-05-2013 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PropJoe (Post 61070425)
I understand that but the problem I see with his game is his speed. He seems like he really struggles to create space. Speed isn't something that generally gets better with age.

In general, humans peak physically at 26 or 27. He still has plenty of time to get faster, in terms of strength and skating form.

PropJoe 03-05-2013 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt (Post 61070881)
He is 20 years old! Give the kid a break.....:shakehead

I'm not speaking to his current play. I'm talking about his potential as a player. I just see him valued so highly by many I just want to get a feel for what it is I'm missing. There are people who wouldn't trade him for Subban or Shattenkirk and value him more highly than Schenn. I'm just trying to get a grip on what it is people see in him.

I'm a little disappointed in this year's performance but he's definitely not a player I would go out and blame our losses on.

dingbathero 03-05-2013 10:34 PM

I'd like to see Read on his wing too. That will open stuff up for him.

PropJoe 03-05-2013 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba2 (Post 61070687)
He doesn't seem to have a problem with Malkin. Couturier is just overthinking right now. So he looks slow. It might take a few more years before he starts playing with confidence. He looked great at times last year.

I'm fine with the way he's played against the Penguins. It's all the other teams that I'm worried about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by healthyscratch (Post 61070307)
I love the kid and what he brings but if he can get us a Pietro or OEL then I might have to do it. :help:

Come on, he's definitely not getting Pietro and more than likely not netting us OEL. This is the type of overvaluing I'm talking about.

OzFlyer 03-06-2013 02:20 AM

Just throwing out a crazy idea but what would it take to turn Cout's into a PMD??

kernalbyrne22 03-06-2013 02:29 AM

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...defense-flyers

Clown Baby 03-06-2013 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PropJoe (Post 61070425)
I understand that but the problem I see with his game is his speed. He seems like he really struggles to create space. Speed isn't something that generally gets better with age.

I don't think you do, aaand yes it can with work. The Sedins are a perfect example. Or, Getzlaf and Perry.

Psuhockey 03-06-2013 05:21 AM

Couturier game will improve once his strength improves. There is also a lack of confidence right now. Once he gets physically mature he will be able to create more space for himself with his size. Fast forwards have more success early in their careers while big guys tend to take longer to develop.

PayItForward 03-06-2013 06:27 AM

Well, he's 20. Obviously his offensive game is concerning, but there's still a lot of time for that to come around. Nothing that has happened has changed my opinion that he has J. Staal/Bergeron upside.

His value is also not as high as it could be. So while obviously most people would trade him for Pietrangelo or OEL, he doesn't have near the value to get either of those players (nor will those players be moved anyway). It doesn't make a ton of sense to trade him and the plus it would cost to bring back a #1 d-man type.

Again, he's 20. He needs more time to develop. At the very least he's a 3rd line with elite defense and at most, who knows at this point.

poneill27 03-06-2013 07:22 AM

I am one of the most impatient people around, but in this case we need to be patient! We may need to wait 3-4 years until we really see what he's capable of. Look at Voracek. He's been in the nhl for 5 yrs and has only just begun. We have something special in Couturier and need to get off his back!

SeanCWombBroom 03-06-2013 07:28 AM

B. Schenn (21)

-Just broke out this year (which a lot of us knew was bound to happen despite fear from impatient people)
-age 17 - 88 points in WHL
-age 18 - 99 points in WHL
-PPG player in AHL
-Involved in threads about being overrated

Couts (barely 20)
-age 17 - 96 points in QMJHL
-age 18 - 96 points in QMJHL
-almost PPG player in AHL

The tools are there. Give Couts 1-1/2 - 2 more seasons and better linemates. There is a good case to be made for moving him up in the line up so he does not stagnate. One has to get used to having better / more reliable weapons.


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