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-   -   Speculation: The 2014-2015 Goalie Situation (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1368897)

Tim Murray 03-06-2013 10:32 AM

The 2014-2015 Goalie Situation
 
Miller's contact expires at the end of next year's season. Let's assume for the sake of discussion that we don't sign him, for financial reasons or otherwise.

Regier obviously is considering his plan B as any good GM would, even though we're a bit over a year out from crossing this bidge.

So, here's what we have in the organization right now:

Jhonas Enroth
Connor Knapp
Nathan Lieuwen
Andrey Makarov
David Leggio
Linus Ullmark

(Hopefully I didn't miss anyone)

Short term Enroth is the most likely candidate to fill in for Milller. He's looked dreadful however. IMO he needs to be playing in the AHL. Backing up a workhorse like Miller and getting shelled in limited spot duty is doing nothing for his development and likely is crushing any confidence he had left. He doesn't look like the answer.

Leggio seems like a marginal AHL career goalie. That's fine, you need those. But he certainly isn't the answer.

Knapp and Lieuwen have a long way to go, and at least in Lieuwen's case, look like longshots to ever see NHL ice.

I'm intrigued by Makarov. I think he has a ton of potential, and every time I've seen him play he's looked outstanding. Obviously, he has a long way to go before he gets to the NHL and isn't a short term option.

Ullmark I know very little about, but clearly like Makarov he's got a ways to go.

So, that leaves us searching outside of the organization IMO. Here's the list of 2014 UFA goalies currently in the NHL:

http://www.capgeek.com/free-agents/?...G&fa_type_id=2

Lundqvist, Henrik G NYR 31 $6,875,000 2014 (UFA)
Miller, Ryan G BUF 32 $6,250,000 2014 (UFA)
Kiprusoff, Miikka G CGY 36 $5,833,333 2014 (UFA)
Hiller, Jonas G ANA 31 $4,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Brodeur, Martin G NJD 40 $4,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Halak, Jaroslav G STL 27 $3,750,000 2014 (UFA)
Dubnyk, Devan G EDM 26 $3,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Crawford, Corey G CHI 28 $2,666,667 2014 (UFA)
Vokoun, Tomas G PIT 36 $2,000,000 2014 (UFA)
Elliott, Brian G STL 27 $1,800,000 2014 (UFA)
Gustavsson, Jonas G DET 28 $1,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Giguere, Jean-Sebastien G COL 35 $1,500,000 2014 (UFA)
Hedberg, Johan G NJD 39 $1,400,000 2014 (UFA)
Biron, Martin G NYR 35 $1,300,000 2014 (UFA)
Clemmensen, Scott G FLA 35 $1,200,000 2014 (UFA)
Scrivens, Ben G TOR 26 $612,500 2014 (UFA)
Peters, Justin G CAR 26 $537,500 2014 (UFA)
Zatkoff, Jeff G PIT 25 $525,000 2014 (UFA)

Personally, I like Miller and wish we could have put some better teams around him many of the years he's been here. But I'm starting to think it's time we moved on. He has good value now with a year left on his contract, and I think he's going to ask for more money than I'm comfortable paying when UFA time comes.

What are everyone's thoughts?

EDIT

Quote:

So, a few updates here.

First, we've added Hackett who looks like he might be able to push for a backup spot next year, but of course we still have Miller/Enroth at the NHL level. So I'm guessing he's in Roch to start the year. If we move one of those 2, depending on return he might get his shot, but he's now directly in the mix for 2014-2015.

Also, Enroth is really starting to turn it around. He's 3-2-2 this year, with 1 shutout.

Interesting that despite his poor record last year, his save% is the same this year as it was last year: .918. Which is a marked improvement from his previous year, at .907, despite have a excellent win-loss record that year.

He's now 20-16-7, .914, 2.72GAA on his career. Not too shabby.

joshjull 03-06-2013 10:40 AM

Enroth is not a NHL starter right now and I doubt he ever will be.

I'm guessing a trade of some sort or a free agent signing will need to happen to get another starter in here if Miller leaves. None of our prospects are anywhere near NHL ready.

Tim Murray 03-06-2013 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshjull (Post 61091601)
Enroth is not a NHL starter right now and I doubt he ever will be.

I'd have to agree. Enroth just isn't showing anything in his limited time out there.

I think I'd like to see someone capable brought in this season at the trade deadline, but I'm struggling with how much I'd be willing to give up and who I would target. One of the Blues goalies maybe? I'd love to be in Ottawa's shoes right now as far as goalies are concerned.

SundherDome 03-06-2013 12:09 PM

It all depends on what defense we put in front of the goalie. Enroth could be a possiblity if he isnt facing 40 shots a game. He is the only one right now who looks capable of NHL duties even if he hasnt shown it lately.

Elliott is intriguing to me via FA.

A trade is also possible but over 2 1/2 years away is hard to tell who will develop and who wont. But i would like Millan from Colorado but again its a crap shoot.

Myllz 03-06-2013 12:11 PM

I'd take King Henrik for a few seasons. :laugh:

Tim Murray 03-06-2013 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanekTheMvp (Post 61096275)
It all depends on what defense we put in front of the goalie. Enroth could be a possiblity if he isnt facing 40 shots a game. He is the only one right now who looks capable of NHL duties even if he hasnt shown it lately.

Elliott is intriguing to me via FA.

A trade is also possible but over 2 1/2 years away is hard to tell who will develop and who wont. But i would like Millan from Colorado but again its a crap shoot.

Not 2.5 years. 1 year and 20 some odd games. We have 1 more year of Miller before UFA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myllz (Post 61096367)
I'd take King Henrik for a few seasons. :laugh:

There's no way he leaves NY, IMO.

Duddy 03-06-2013 12:51 PM

I doubt Miller leaves, but if he does they probably trade him for a young G that could maybe take over. If not they sign someone.

RattleYourSabre 03-06-2013 12:52 PM

I think it's either got to be a re-signed Miller (And I understand the concept of the thread, saying assume we don't sign... but) or a traded Miller for a goalie +.

I'm not sure there's many other short term options, unless one of our goalies develops unusually quickly.

Jacob582 03-06-2013 12:55 PM

I think they will address it via trade.
A Jonathan Bernier type.

McTankel 03-06-2013 01:21 PM

Andrey Makarov is our goalie of the future. Ironically he was just selected as prospect of the month. Not sure about the 14-15 season, but soon after that I believe. I think Miller wants to stay here as the goltender situation in Southern Cali is pretty locked up for the foreseeable future.

Saskatoon Blades goaltender Andrey Makarov (BUF) is the Hockey's Future Prospect of the Month for February. The undrafted Russian goaltender rocked the WHL last month, posting a 15-0 record, a 1.72 goals-against average, a .948 save percentage, and two shutouts.

On the season, Makarov has a 35-16-1-3 record, a 2.42 goals-against average, a .924 save percentage, and seven shutouts, all of which rank in the top five in the WHL.

Girgenburger 03-06-2013 01:28 PM

Beaten to it, but I think the best course of action is to look into acquiring Bernier from LA. Assuming Makarov will be ready for the NHL in 14-15, that'd be a pretty impressive tandem. Bernier starts until Makarov is ready to take over (however long that takes).

Go to Sleep 03-06-2013 02:55 PM

I hate to say it since I'm such a big fan of Miller and I love the way he plays but, he's been carrying this team for so long and deserves to go to a team that doesn't have to rely on the goaltender on every play. Buffalo just can't get the puck out of their zone.

Mills would be a hot UFA and struggling teams like Winnipeg and Columbus are going to be fighting over him.
I don't see Miller going though, his contract will be extended most likely. I think the Sabres should try and get a backup that we can depend on, Enroth just isn't ready.
Blackhawks fans hate Crawford for some reason so how about him?

Tim Murray 03-06-2013 03:19 PM

Strange that they hate Crawford. I'd have to read up on why. I love him, he plays great in every game I've seen that I can recall.

I think I would trade Miller to Chicago today if it included Crawford and a high pick/prospect.

Go to Sleep 03-06-2013 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mogilny 89 (Post 61107359)
Strange that they hate Crawford. I'd have to read up on why. I love him, he plays great in every game I've seen that I can recall.

I think I would trade Miller to Chicago today if it included Crawford and a high pick/prospect.

I watched the Chicago @ Detroit game last Sunday and Crawford played amazing. I just always hear about Blackhawks fans talking bad about the guy. Emery is a pretty solid goaltender; when Craw was injured Emery kept the Hawks' streak alive. He'd be a good choice for a starter.

So if we keep Miller and get Crawford as a backup, Crawford would get a lot more games in than Enroth ever had.
If we trade Miller, Blackhawks would have to cough up a 1st and 2nd rounder or a prospect.

I'd be surprised if the 'hawks don't win the Cup this year. I mean, Crawford wins the Cup with the 'hawks and then goes to Buffalo next season with a team that won't be close to winning a Cup for a while. Why would you trade your star goaltender? Kind of doesn't make sense.. but again we've seen these types of trades before.

Have My Baby Pierre 03-06-2013 03:48 PM

Crawford is putting up vezina like numbers on a team that is absolutely rolling right now, can't see Chicago being that eager to get a new goaltender anytime soon.

Myllz 03-06-2013 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Have My Baby Pierre (Post 61109087)
Crawford is putting up vezina like numbers on a team that is absolutely rolling right now, can't see Chicago being that eager to get a new goaltender anytime soon.

So is Ray Emery, so what does that tell you about Chicago?

Chainshot 03-06-2013 04:11 PM

Too many questions at this point. Who knows if Makarov is going to be a capable NHLer, let alone starter. We know Enroth is overmatched at this level, Ullmark has a lot of growing to do and Lieuwen/Knapp are way, way, way far away from that level.

Vito_81 03-06-2013 05:54 PM

Miller will be re-signed. And he SHOULD be. The guy should retire a Sabre.

On top of that, there's absolutely nothing in the system that will be ready to start in the NHL in 2 years. Lundqvist and Halak will both be re-upped. Kipper, Vokoun and Brodeur will be retired or not good enough to start anymore.

Miller's the only good option.

He'll just be 34 a few weeks after his current contract expires. Sure it'll probably take 6.5 per season to get it done. But that's how it goes.

It's either that, or swinging a trade.

One thing is for sure, Darcy can't leave it until next off-season. This needs to be addressed this summer. Either by resigning Miller or making a trade to bring in a guy like a Bernier or a Bishop or another goalie on the cusp of becoming a starter.

Djp 03-06-2013 06:30 PM

I have said this before on other threads.....

I look for Buffalo to move Pommers this season and in return look to get a young goalie (Bernier, Schneider, Fasth) back.

Then trade Miller to a team in the west. (Chicago, San Jose, Anaheim come to mind, Edmonton is another possibility)

As for UFAs...who knows then how they are doing and who was worth signing.

Miller as a UFA will want to go to Califonia to be closer to his wife.

Rhett4 03-06-2013 07:43 PM

I don't see Miller resigning here. Trade him soon to maximize his value and do what it takes to bring Bernier here as a stopgap until either a current prospect (Makarov seems most promising) or a yet-to-be-drafted prospect develop into your next starter.

Tim Murray 03-06-2013 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vito_81 (Post 61114905)
One thing is for sure, Darcy can't leave it until next off-season. This needs to be addressed this summer. Either by resigning Miller or making a trade to bring in a guy like a Bernier or a Bishop or another goalie on the cusp of becoming a starter.

That's where I'm at with this. We haven't had to think much about goalies for the last 20 years, excepting early in the 2000's. :laugh:

It's been nice but the cupboards are bare with NHL talent and we're a year away from having to make some hard decisions.

I'd feel a whole lot better about this if we had someone in the stable that could play in a years time. I have zero confidence in Enroth and our other guys are a long ways out.

jfb392 03-06-2013 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djp (Post 61116307)
I look for Buffalo to move Pommers this season and in return look to get a young goalie (Bernier, Schneider, Fasth) back.

Not to nitpick, but Fasth is not young.
He may be a rookie, but he's the same age as Jonas Hiller (Hiller is 31, Fasth turns 31 in August).


As for the OP, here's how I feel about the organizational depth in the crease:
Jhonas Enroth - Soured on him years ago. Has too many technical flaws and his lack of size doesn't help things. Has clutch ability, though... to let in soul crushing goals.
Connor Knapp - Looked to have improved his rebound control from what I saw last year, but is getting eaten alive at the pro level. Probably nothing more than a backup in the NHL if he makes it. Maybe a poor man's Ben Bishop, who is already more of a backup to begin with.
Nathan Lieuwen - Obviously has a long way to go. Maybe a bit of an advantage over Knapp due to his injury that caused him to miss extended periods of time early in his WHL career, thus making him a possible late bloomer. Being essentially a blank canvas for a goalie coach can be both a positive and a negative. If he ever makes it, he's probably a backup, and it's years away.
Andrey Makarov - Early returns are better than I expected, but I've seen better goalies than him fall flat on their face. Has the potential to be the best of all the collection, but until he's done something at the pro level, he's a big question mark. Inherent risk because of his style, or lack thereof.
David Leggio - Looks to be a career minor league goalie.
Linus Ullmark - Hard for me to say, because the extent of my viewing of him is pretty much the Dev Camp scrimmage. A ways off if he does make it.

I am hoping and expecting Miller to move on soon and I think it's best for both sides.
He deserves to have a chance to win, something I don't see in the cards here in the near future.
The organization has become lazy because they've had to luxury of him in between the pipes and for the most part, has not even attempted to find a replacement for him.
Most of the picks they've made are marginal types and they really don't go out of their way to attempt to find quality.
I like the goaltending available in the upcoming draft, so they need to start working towards the future now.
Pick up a blue chipper and grab some late picks and exploit the decent depth that seems to exist in North America and the new European transfer agreement that allows you to wait up to four years to make a decision.

In the near future though, I am personally fine with a marginal starter, but most others are probably not.
Sign someone out of free agency or pick someone up for nothing, I don't care.
I'd actually prefer not having someone capable of stealing games, as it'd force everyone to clean up their defensive play and they'd lose games they deserve to lose (as I've stated, I am basically happy with tanking in the short term).
The only starter prospect that looks to be available is probably Bernier, and I don't see any way of getting him without putting too many eggs in one basket (LA seems to want a bit for him and I am personally not confident that we're really going anywhere, so I'd rather roll the dice on other options).

tl;dr none of the guys in the pipeline will be ready in the near future so just run with anything you can get, draft some for the future, and sign undrafted free agents and give them a chance.

kenfury 03-06-2013 10:09 PM

Jhonas really needs to get a conditioning stint and some reps to see what he can do when he is not rusty

jfb392 03-06-2013 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenfury (Post 61133133)
Jhonas really needs to get a conditioning stint and some reps to see what he can do when he is not rusty

Hey, at least that way he might be safe from losing his job to Leggio like the last time he was in the AHL. :laugh:

McTank 03-06-2013 11:52 PM

Trade miller to chicago for futures, let miller win a cup, re-sign miller in 2 years to an improved roster


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