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-   -   Proposal: Phx - Col (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1369039)

m0ngr31 03-06-2013 12:04 PM

Phx - Col
 
Since I'm guessing the Avs management doesn't want their new 6.5 million (next year) investment to be stuck on the 3rd line, that might make Statsny available if we can get a 3C coming back. So here's my proposal:

Col:
Yandle
Vermette

Phx:
Statsny
+

The question is the +. What would it take from Colorado to even out the trade for the Coyotes? Would someone like Jones be too much or little?

Kaibur 03-06-2013 12:10 PM

Vermette and Statsny's production is very similar, Vermette fits the Yotes like a glove, and Vermette is cheaper and controlled for longer. Why would the Yotes do this? Unless that + is amazing, I don't think this is the basis for a deal.

couture23 03-06-2013 12:12 PM

You are severely underestimating Vermette OP. You are on the right track with Yandle and Stastny but there would have to be a plus on the Avs side.

m0ngr31 03-06-2013 12:15 PM

I think Statsny would go back to somewhere around a PPG player under a different coach. He's been on a steady decline since Sacco (his GPG have stayed around the same, but his APG have decreased significantly).

m0ngr31 03-06-2013 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by couture23 (Post 61100101)
You are severely underestimating Vermette OP. You are on the right track with Yandle and Stastny but there would have to be a plus on the Avs side.

I'm a huge Vermette fan, but I think he'd be better suited for a 3C job than any of our centers, so I'd love to get him for the right price.

I'm thinking that Since Stastny > Vermette, we'd need to give an equal proportional defender. So it'd be something like Yandle > Wilson+?

I don't know. I'm just spitballing here :laugh:

Kaibur 03-06-2013 12:27 PM

As of now, the Yotes will need to add a center this off-season. They may sign Lombardi, but his production, health, cost, and term will all determine whether he stays.

Moving Vermette for Statsny doesn't really solve that. And if we're moving Yandle, we expect to get a #1 C back. GMDM turned down a package that included a top 10 pick, and he also turned down Gagner & Paajarvi, at the draft for Yandle alone.

The top 5 forwards in the coming draft would all be good places to start, if a team wants to pry one of the Yotes premier D-men away. Other than that, it would have to be someone who is or is close to being a #1 center that can play the Tippett style.

m0ngr31 03-06-2013 12:33 PM

So it sounds like you need to keep centers, but would Yandle for Statsny still be good? What would either side need to add?

IWantSakicAsMyGM 03-06-2013 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m0ngr31 (Post 61100637)
I'm a huge Vermette fan, but I think he'd be better suited for a 3C job than any of our centers, so I'd love to get him for the right price.

I'm thinking that Since Stastny > Vermette, we'd need to give an equal proportional defender. So it'd be something like Yandle > Wilson+?

I don't know. I'm just spitballing here :laugh:

Mitchell is decently suited for a 3C position, no reason to get Vermette back. And I'd rather not give up Wilson. He's probably not a top pairing guy, but he's a solid D who can deliver the big hits.

I'd suggest something like

Stastny
One of O'Byrne/O'Brien/Hunwick/Zanon
3rd/4th round pick (or Avs keep some salary instead)

for

Yandle
maybe a late pick or forward prospect to even it out.

Kaibur 03-06-2013 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m0ngr31 (Post 61101405)
So it sounds like you need to keep centers, but would Yandle for Statsny still be good? What would either side need to add?

Yotes fans have talked about whether moving Yandle is the best option. OEL, Smith, & Boeds are all going to need raises. (We're still just blindly assuming the club will be in the desert with the same budget as the past few seasons.) But there are other ways to make the budget fit.

Yandle for Statsny actually takes on salary, so that's a problem. And the Yotes really don't have any "dead weight" contracts to add.

If Yandle gets put on the market, there will be a bidding war. It's going to take some stomach to win that war. Book it.

Crisp Breakout 03-06-2013 12:43 PM

I don't think we'd need to get Vermette back. Why not Stastny for Yandle, and we can add as necessary?

Kaibur 03-06-2013 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout (Post 61102007)
I don't think we'd need to get Vermette back. Why not Stastny for Yandle, and we can add as necessary?

Edmonton offered Gagner & Paajarvi at the draft for Yandle and Maloney turned them down.

What would you offer in addition, that would beat that (and any other) offer? Statsny's paid $1.3M per more than Yandle, and is only signed through next season, while Yandle is signed through 2016. The extra also has to make up for those differences in contract values. Plus, you're a fellow Western Conf. team and if there are two trade offers equal, and one's from the East...

I don't want to guess what the Avs might be willing to add, but then I don't see a deal here. I think a comparable might be Jack Johnson & a conditional first for Jeff Carter. Yandle and JJ are comparable, but Yandle is the superior player. Carter at that time and Statsny might be pretty comparable as well. But Carter's contract and Statsny's are polar opposite. One's a lifer, the other is until next year.

Pierce Hawthorne 03-06-2013 12:54 PM

Yea, no need for Vermette for the Avs, the + that would then have to be associated with Stastny would become way to much for someone we have no need for.

Stastny + Jones + 2nd for Yandle + Cap Dump

Or, if Yotes cant take on Jones contract, Stastny + 2nd + Mid level prospect(Gaunce maybe?)

alpine4life 03-06-2013 12:58 PM

@OP:

To COL: Stastny+ (say 2nd/3rd not to sure whats missing, havent seen a whole lot of game this year)

To PHO: Yandle (nothing else)

HooliganX2 03-06-2013 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avsare1 (Post 61102579)
Yea, no need for Vermette for the Avs, the + that would then have to be associated with Stastny would become way to much for someone we have no need for.

Stastny + Jones + 2nd for Yandle + Cap Dump

Or, if Yotes cant take on Jones contract, Stastny + 2nd + Mid level prospect(Gaunce maybe?)

Jones just hasn't been very good at all and his contract may give him negative value to a team like PHX.

rockinghockey 03-06-2013 01:18 PM

I don't see PHX taking on Stastny's contract, it is just too big.

WarriorOfGandhi 03-06-2013 01:20 PM

how many times over the past 3 years has Stastny for Yandle been floated on these boards?

Crisp Breakout 03-06-2013 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaibur (Post 61102517)
Edmonton offered Gagner & Paajarvi at the draft for Yandle and Maloney turned them down.

What would you offer in addition, that would beat that (and any other) offer? Statsny's paid $1.3M per more than Yandle, and is only signed through next season, while Yandle is signed through 2016. The extra also has to make up for those differences in contract values. Plus, you're a fellow Western Conf. team and if there are two trade offers equal, and one's from the East...

I don't want to guess what the Avs might be willing to add, but then I don't see a deal here. I think a comparable might be Jack Johnson & a conditional first for Jeff Carter. Yandle and JJ are comparable, but Yandle is the superior player. Carter at that time and Statsny might be pretty comparable as well. But Carter's contract and Statsny's are polar opposite. One's a lifer, the other is until next year.

I don't see all of your arguments cutting the way you'd like them to. For one I value Stastny significantly above Gagner and Paajarvi. Second, I'm not sure how desirable a lifetime contract is - particularly on player who was forcing his way out of town.

I'm willing to add to Stastny, but it's not going to be another key piece - you won't be seeing a first round pick. I think the only way this works is if you can get an indication that Stastny is willing to re-sign with the Yotes...

Muffin 03-06-2013 01:44 PM

Stastny's contract ends next season, is not like you're stuck with a life time contract.

S E P H 03-06-2013 01:52 PM

Yeah, we do not really need a centre coming back due to signing ROR.

Stastny
Gaunce (Defenseman with decent potential who would do wonders in Tippetts defensive system)
2nd or Blandisi (Two-way forward that is progressing astronomically offensively, looking like a steal)

for

Yandle

Allen Degenerate 03-06-2013 02:10 PM

I'm not sure if Avs ownership would be willing to spend money to improve the team, but absorbing some of Stastny's salary would make this deal much easier for Phoenix to accept.

dahrougem2 03-06-2013 02:38 PM

David Jones sucks big time so offering him in a trade is pointless because right now I doubt there's even one team in the league with interest in him, he's that bad.

Stastny's contract is only an issue for next season. If he keeps up his pace of 50-60 points, his salary will likely be reduced to anywhere from 4-5 million per season, but if he goes to Phoenix and starts to put up 80 points again he could get the same pay-day, probably around 5.5-6 million per season, but I don't think that will happen because Phoenix isn't exactly an offensive machine, Stastny has suffered under Sacco I don't see how he will thrive under Tippet.

Nonetheless, here is my proposal to Yotes fans including Stastny:

To Colorado

Keith Yandle


To Phoenix

Paul Stastny
Stefan Elliott/2014 1st Round Pick
Ryan O'Byrne/Greg Zanon/Matt Hunwick
Michael Sgarbossa

Edit: Phoenix could add some minor players to make the contract structure of each team work out and not exceed the limit but nothing special, just minor league players

Kaibur 03-06-2013 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout (Post 61104793)
I don't see all of your arguments cutting the way you'd like them to. For one I value Stastny significantly above Gagner and Paajarvi. Second, I'm not sure how desirable a lifetime contract is - particularly on player who was forcing his way out of town.

I'm willing to add to Stastny, but it's not going to be another key piece - you won't be seeing a first round pick. I think the only way this works is if you can get an indication that Stastny is willing to re-sign with the Yotes...

Again, I don't see a deal here - that's my argument. I think a third team would probably have to be brought in to make something work.

I likewise think Statsny is better than Gagner or Paajarvi. But I think those two combined are worth more than Statsny right now. And Maloney turned that down. So we know that in June, Yandle's value was more than Gagner + Paajarvi.

In the Carter trade, while a lifetime contract for Carter at the time was seen as sort of detrimental, it was also fairly affordable, if he could get back to the season prior's level of production. He also had a lot of playoff experience. In contrast, I would say that Statsny's current pay rate is well above his performance in both this, and last season's production, so I'm less inclined to think a return to form is going to be at the right price. And he has 1/3 of the playoff experience that Carter did at the time.

What about something for Yandle without Statsny?

Yandle + Phx 1st (~#18) for Col 1st (#?) + something else?

DesertDawg 03-06-2013 02:45 PM

I do think Stastny is better than Vermette, who is better than Gagner. However that much money doesn't justify trading for him and having Vermette, Hanzal, Lombardi, and Gordon down the middle means that this 'Yotes fan is content with Yandle still being on the team. Want Yandle, the only player that I would want from the Avs, at this moment, is Landescog, so it ain't going to happen. Duchene would get my interest, and neither will be offered. Better chance to get Yandle is during the draft, and it all depends on so many factors, so who knows.

Schlemko and Vermette for Stastny + would be more interesting for the Coyotes POV... and please refrain from underestimating Schlemko.

jfisher6 03-06-2013 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahrougem2 (Post 61108533)
To Colorado

Keith Yandle


To Phoenix

Paul Stastny
Stefan Elliott/2014 1st Round Pick
Ryan O'Byrne/Greg Zanon/Matt Hunwick
Michael Sgarbossa

Holy overpayment, Batman

jfisher6 03-06-2013 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DesertDawg (Post 61108893)
I do think Stastny is better than Vermette, who is better than Gagner. However that much money doesn't justify trading for him and having Vermette, Hanzal, Lombardi, and Gordon down the middle means that this 'Yotes fan is content with Yandle still being on the team. Want Yandle, the only player that I would want from the Avs, at this moment, is Landescog, so it ain't going to happen. Duchene would get my interest, and neither will be offered. Better chance to get Yandle is during the draft, and it all depends on so many factors, so who knows.

Schlemko and Vermette for Stastny + would be more interesting for the Coyotes POV... and please refrain from underestimating Schlemko.

I don't think we'd ever do Schlemko and Vermette for Stastny+


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