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signalIInoise 03-31-2005 09:07 AM

Washington - Calgary
 
To Washington: Jarome Iginla
To Calgary: Alexander Ovechkin and ..?

I'm looking at this strictly as a marketing move. If the NHL promoted him properly, Jarome Iginla could be the best ambassador for hockey since Gretzky, and frankly, Calgary doesn't need an ambassador -- Calgary is a hockey town.

Even without Iginla, they'd be a hard-checking team, and Ovechkin could bring them a bit more offensive sizzle. Combined with their solid young defense, Ovechkin could be free to attack the net, and put up far better numbers in Calgary than Washington.

Meanwhile, Washington is a world media center, and Iginla could be used to bring more attention to hockey there than he ever could in Calgary. It is also true that Washington has among the highest-density black populations in North America. Iginla could blow up an untapped fanbase in DC -- he's probably the most talented black hockey player ever, and there's probably no better market to showcase that hockey is not just a bunch of white guys beating each other with sticks.

Now, before I get flamed into submission -- yeah, the black thing is a very cynical ploy -- but it's one of the smallest factors in my reasoning to bring Iginla to Washington. Honestly, he's one of the hardest-working, personable and dominating players in the game. He's physical and skilled -- one of the very few true power-forwards in the game today. He's everything the NHL *should* be marketing to the hilt, and it's easier to bring the show to the media than to bring the media to the show. With the right marketing, Iginla could be as big as Brett Favre or Kobe Bryant, and I don't see that ever happening out in the sticks of Cowtown.

HuskyFlames 03-31-2005 09:48 AM

And another top prospect or 1st rounder would possibly do it BUT it would be a step back for a team, like Calgary, who is so close to being a legit playoff time for years to come. Unless the package is huge there is no reason for the Flames to take it.

Biscuit Bullet 03-31-2005 09:55 AM

I don't see the point....Calgary already has a solid team that can make the playoffs. Washington is developing a young core. Why would Calgary take a step back and Washington take give up their [hopeful] future superstar...this deal makes no sense.

Fictional Realism 03-31-2005 10:03 AM

This is the exact same situation as the Nash for Hossa thread, except to an even more extreme degree. Why would a Stanley Cup Finalist trade THE key part of their team for a prospect (even one of the top 3 prospects in the world)? I'm not debating the value as it is there (roughly), but a rebuilding team doesn't trade its top prospect and a team looking to go far in the playoffs again doesn't trade Iginla for him.

signalIInoise 03-31-2005 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonzai
I don't see the point....Calgary already has a solid team that can make the playoffs. Washington is developing a young core. Why would Calgary take a step back and Washington take give up their [hopeful] future superstar...this deal makes no sense.

I dunno... Ovechkin is a potential superstar, but Iginla *is* a superstar. I think it's a no-brainer for the Caps.

And as I said in the original post, the proposal is more or less for marketing reasons. Hasn't Washington had its fill of Eastern-European primadonnas? Don't you think that Iginla would be an easy sell here?

Honestly, the NHL in general has a LOT of making-up to do, and the Caps in particular owe some mea culpas to fans for the season-long fire sale. IMO, Iginla to DC would go a long ways towards mending some bridges.

signalIInoise 03-31-2005 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westcoast
This is the exact same situation as the Nash for Hossa thread, except to an even more extreme degree. Why would a Stanley Cup Finalist trade THE key part of their team for a prospect (even one of the top 3 prospects in the world)? I'm not debating the value as it is there (roughly), but a rebuilding team doesn't trade its top prospect and a team looking to go far in the playoffs again doesn't trade Iginla for him.

Yes, the Caps are a rebuilding team, but Iginla would give them an identity, and something they don't have -- a real physical presence. They have a solid stable of prospects, so even giving up their #1 guy doesn't empty the shelves much -- and playing with Iginla would help mature the other promising young players a lot more quickly than playing with Ovechkin would.

Also, yes -- Calgary made it to the finals, but do even the Calgary homers think that it wasn't the teeniest bit flukey that they got there? Every year everyone has a shot at the finals -- Iginla doesn't guarantee anything. In recent years the Sabres and Hurricanes both went to the finals, too.

I like the Flames. I think they've got a good team. I do think they'll be back to a place deep in the finals in a couple of years, but in the near-term this was their shot. Calgary is a solid team with little offensive flash. Ovechkin is as close to a sure thing as there is in terms of lighting the lamp. Calgary is full to bursting with physicality and two-way players. Yes, they'd miss Iginla, but they've got the depth to overcome that.

I admit -- Ovechkin today is less than Iginla today, but in rebuilding interest in the sport, every team prospers. In my mind, this is not a hockey decision (though both teams get an incredible player), it's a business decision.

FWIW, I'm not a fan of either team -- I'm a hockey fan. I'd like to see the sport thrive. I think this helps that bottom line.

Epsilon 03-31-2005 10:40 AM

Why do people continue to overrate the marketability of hockey players? Iginla is not Lebron James or Kobe Bryant, and never will be.

signalIInoise 03-31-2005 11:06 AM

LeBron James and Kobe Bryant weren't LeBron James or Kobe Bryant either until someone put some PR effort behind them. Hype doesn't just happen -- it's a lot of work.

Hasn't Paris Hilton proven that you don't even need a product in order to sell it?

Vatican Roulette 03-31-2005 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signaliinoise
LeBron James and Kobe Bryant weren't LeBron James or Kobe Bryant either until someone put some PR effort behind them. Hype doesn't just happen -- it's a lot of work.

Hasn't Paris Hilton proven that you don't even need a product in order to sell it?


you dont know what 'product' she sells?

Luigi Lemieux 03-31-2005 12:13 PM

how exactly would iginla be the best ambassador since gretzky? he's a great player, but he's not far and away the best player like ambassadors have been. (tiger woods in golf, michael jordan in basketball, gretzky in hockey) if jagr in DC didn't help the NHL much, iginla surely won't.

signalIInoise 03-31-2005 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pavel datsyuk
you dont know what 'product' she sells?

Chlamydia?

JimEIV 03-31-2005 12:35 PM

No way would I trade Ignila (A bonifide NHL Star) for an unproven prospect, unless it had to with econmic reason that I could no long afford Jerome.

saillias 03-31-2005 12:56 PM

As a Calgary fan, what a useless trade.

Fictional Realism 03-31-2005 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signaliinoise
Yes, the Caps are a rebuilding team, but Iginla would give them an identity, and something they don't have -- a real physical presence. They have a solid stable of prospects, so even giving up their #1 guy doesn't empty the shelves much -- and playing with Iginla would help mature the other promising young players a lot more quickly than playing with Ovechkin would.

Also, yes -- Calgary made it to the finals, but do even the Calgary homers think that it wasn't the teeniest bit flukey that they got there? Every year everyone has a shot at the finals -- Iginla doesn't guarantee anything. In recent years the Sabres and Hurricanes both went to the finals, too.

I like the Flames. I think they've got a good team. I do think they'll be back to a place deep in the finals in a couple of years, but in the near-term this was their shot. Calgary is a solid team with little offensive flash. Ovechkin is as close to a sure thing as there is in terms of lighting the lamp. Calgary is full to bursting with physicality and two-way players. Yes, they'd miss Iginla, but they've got the depth to overcome that.

I admit -- Ovechkin today is less than Iginla today, but in rebuilding interest in the sport, every team prospers. In my mind, this is not a hockey decision (though both teams get an incredible player), it's a business decision.

FWIW, I'm not a fan of either team -- I'm a hockey fan. I'd like to see the sport thrive. I think this helps that bottom line.

I'm not a Flames fan, but I don't want to get into 'was Calgary getting into the Finals a fluke' discussions cause those always turn messy. Regardless though, Iginla was the main reason they got to the finals (followed closely by Kipper) and trading him seems to me to be a sure fire way to ASSURE they don't get there again, whereas at the moment they have a similar chance imo. Additionally, in many peoples eyes Iginla is the best player in the league (debatable obviously), and well Ovechkin may get there over time, he is most definitely an unproven factor and thus does not warrant a return like Iginla at this time I don't think (unless Iginla was being traded FROM a rebuilding team or as a salary dump or something. Then Ovechkin would be a solid return for any teams blueprint.)

Additionally I don't buy the marketing thing, seems like you are reaching a bit. Again in my eyes it's the same as the Nash/Hossa comparison, if the players were on opposite teams I could see a deal like this happening, maybe.

Lanny MacDonald* 03-31-2005 01:36 PM

Ovechkin and Fehr for Iginla?

signalIInoise 03-31-2005 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westcoast
I'm not a Flames fan, but I don't want to get into 'was Calgary getting into the Finals a fluke' discussions cause those always turn messy.

Yeah -- they do. For the record, IMO, ANYONE getting to the finals is a fluke. There's 30 teams out there, and any but 5 or 6 of them could be said to have a legitimate shot.

So, anyway -- certainly no offense to Calgary backers.

As to whether I'm reaching a bit -- certainly. I personally believe that reaching is necessary at this point in time. The NHL has travelled too safe a road for far too long, and we see where that's gotten them. I can't say that Iginla to DC would definitively be the solution -- but it is worth a shot. So much mismanagement and so many wasted opportunities over the years means that basically someone's gotta take one for the team. I nominate Washington and Calgary. To take the sting out a bit, they both get a fantastic player a franchise can be built around.

Do I think any of this will happen? Hell no -- but I think it makes sense to try.

HuskyFlames 03-31-2005 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westcoast
This is the exact same situation as the Nash for Hossa thread, except to an even more extreme degree. Why would a Stanley Cup Finalist trade THE key part of their team for a prospect (even one of the top 3 prospects in the world)? I'm not debating the value as it is there (roughly), but a rebuilding team doesn't trade its top prospect and a team looking to go far in the playoffs again doesn't trade Iginla for him.

I would not say the same situation. Nash has shown he can be a top goal scorer in the NHL, AO has not.

bennysflyers16 03-31-2005 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
Ovechkin and Fehr for Iginla?


That I think would be closer, IMO, Iginla >>>> Ovechkin, But if I was Calgary I would consider trading Iggy for Ovechkin straight up, if Calgary took the 7 mill ( or whatever iggy makes ) and spend that $$ on 2 more players to address team needs and I think it would be a good trade.

MrMastodonFarm* 03-31-2005 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16
That I think would be closer, IMO, Iginla >>>> Ovechkin, But if I was Calgary I would consider trading Iggy for Ovechkin straight up, if Calgary took the 7 mill ( or whatever iggy makes ) and spend that $$ on 2 more players to address team needs and I think it would be a good trade.

Hello, most of that would go to Ovechkin right away anyways. With Ovechkins salary, the rookie bonus, a singing clause and the amount it is going to take to buy off the Russians in their outrageous transfers fee's you wouldn't save much.

Iginla for Ovechkin straight up though? No way.

bennysflyers16 03-31-2005 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
Hello, most of that would go to Ovechkin right away anyways. With Ovechkins salary, the rookie bonus, a singing clause and the amount it is going to take to buy off the Russians in their outrageous transfers fee's you wouldn't save much.

Iginla for Ovechkin straight up though? No way.


850 K salary , say 1.5 mill in bounus, 2 mill to get him, leaves 3 mill to sign someone, do these #'s seem close ? I would take Iggy over AO anyday, but if you have some extra $ and spend it wisely, could be worth looking at . 3 mill could get you eg. Stillman, So AO and Stillman for Iggy.

MrMastodonFarm* 03-31-2005 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16
850 K salary , say 1.5 mill in bounus, 2 mill to get him, leaves 3 mill to sign someone, do these #'s seem close ? I would take Iggy over AO anyday, but if you have some extra $ and spend it wisely, could be worth looking at . 3 mill could get you eg. Stillman, So AO and Stillman for Iggy.

Cory Stillman? Bleh, no way. I really don't want a guy who doesn't show any passion in the Stanley Cup final so his coach has to bench him for a game. No heart whatsoever.

I think Ovechkins salary might be more then 850 k, the rookie max is somewhere over 1 million. I bet the signing bonus, and individual award bonuses would be alot higher too.

bennysflyers16 03-31-2005 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
Cory Stillman? Bleh, no way. I really don't want a guy who doesn't show any passion in the Stanley Cup final so his coach has to bench him for a game. No heart whatsoever.

I think Ovechkins salary might be more then 850 k, the rookie max is somewhere over 1 million. I bet the signing bonus, and individual award bonuses would be alot higher too.

Stillman is just an example, in new CBA I can not see a rookie making more than 3 mill with all bonuses .

DARKSIDE 03-31-2005 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Metamorphosis
how exactly would iginla be the best ambassador since gretzky? he's a great player, but he's not far and away the best player like ambassadors have been. (tiger woods in golf, michael jordan in basketball, gretzky in hockey) if jagr in DC didn't help the NHL much, iginla surely won't.

This much I will say, first, Iginla is one of the best players in the sport, if not the best and a good all around guy, that being said, how will I put it, being from African descent would go over big in several U.S. cities like D.C., Newark and N.Y., etc.
At the very least, I believe it would open up the market to a new fan base. That's my opinion on subject anyway.

HuskyFlames 03-31-2005 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16
850 K salary , say 1.5 mill in bounus, 2 mill to get him, leaves 3 mill to sign someone, do these #'s seem close ? I would take Iggy over AO anyday, but if you have some extra $ and spend it wisely, could be worth looking at . 3 mill could get you eg. Stillman, So AO and Stillman for Iggy.

That is still not a great package. In theory AO has great potential BUT know won knows for sure the impact he will have in the NHL. The Flames trade a top impact player in the NHL TODAY for a prospect who is unprove BUT great potential and a solid veteran. I wouldn't take it, IMO.

bennysflyers16 03-31-2005 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
That is still not a great package. In theory AO has great potential BUT know won knows for sure the impact he will have in the NHL. The Flames trade a top impact player in the NHL TODAY for a prospect who is unprove BUT great potential and a solid veteran. I wouldn't take it, IMO.


From a Flames perspective I would not either, but you sure would have to consider it, 1 player for possibly 3 , with one having a very good chance of being as good as Iggy.


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