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-   -   what is Blake or Hedjuk trade value? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=137051)

MikeC 03-31-2005 10:58 PM

what is Blake or Hedjuk trade value?
 
I am a huge Avs fan but I am not blind like a lot of there fans are on this site.

Pierre Lacroix did a lot of mistakes, a lot of bad trades (read regher for theo), and he traded a lot of draft picks.

A lot of people (Avs fan) are saying that Lacroix is a genius...my @$!@$!$.

The Avs are not a contender anymore, they have a great team but when Damphousse is you second center you are in deep @#@$. Plus when we look at the prospects we have in the juniors or in the AHL it is scary.

AVS needs prospect with caracter and talent.

So my question is....what would you offer for hedjuk or blake....I am not saying that we should trade them but the AVS need to make some move.

Thanks

anguscertified 03-31-2005 11:07 PM

Can't see the Avs ever dealing Hejduk. One of the best pure snipers in the game.
Blake could be had probably for some talented youth IF Pierre decides to go that route.

McDonald19 03-31-2005 11:22 PM

What is Blake's contract?

RoyIsALegend* 03-31-2005 11:22 PM

Fine, I'll go into a fantasy world for a bit.

First of all, what teams could *afford* these two players?

Tell me that, and then maybe a proposal could go down. Hejduk got a one year deal for $5.7 M and Blake makes $9 M.

RoyIsALegend* 03-31-2005 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McDonald19
What is Blake's contract?

Signed until the July 1st, 2006 with a one year mutual option until July 1st, 2007.

His contract comes out to $8,349,375.00 per season.

andora 03-31-2005 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeC
A lot of people (Avs fan) are saying that Lacroix is a genius...my @$!@$!$.

then you have the other side of the coin, said av fans and others who are bittered over something *****ing about something that's nice to hang on your mantle --- the top prospect lists ---..

who cares, i have a team that is pretty much a contender year in and year out the past ten years, i have a gm who has enough balls to make *that* trade to try and put his team over the top, and i have a core of players some teams drool of having...

boy, i can't wait for a five year rebuild.. whew that'll be fun

Arastiroth 04-01-2005 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andora
then you have the other side of the coin, said av fans and others who are bittered over something *****ing about something that's nice to hang on your mantle --- the top prospect lists ---..

who cares, i have a team that is pretty much a contender year in and year out the past ten years, i have a gm who has enough balls to make *that* trade to try and put his team over the top, and i have a core of players some teams drool of having...

boy, i can't wait for a five year rebuild.. whew that'll be fun

Agree. I don't understand why the Avs should worry so much about prospects. They could very easily never have another better chance to win the cup for the next 10 or 15 years if they started rebuilding. The only reason to trade Blake would be because of any future salary cap issues. If that happens, though, they won't get much value out of him. There is simply no reason at all to trade Hejduk, though. Unless of course someone overpays for him significantly (basically, as with any other player).

The Avs are in a nice situation where their core players are a wide range of ages. They can simply re-tool the team whenever Sakic and Blake retires. It'll be damn near impossible to replace them, but you do the best you can. Starting from scratch doesn't really do much. Personally, I think there is a lot to say for having younger players trying to compete to make a lineup that wins and is successful, and is expected to be successful, all while not having the expectations be solely on them. In several years when Sakic and Blake retire, they'll be bringing in more young players who will look up to Tanguay, Hejduk and Foote (until he retires) as the key veteran players on the team.

The Avs lack big name prospects, but they manage to pull stuff out when it's needed. They may not end up being a cup contender consistently in 5 years (what team can say they definitely will?), but they'll still at least be a strong team, who could pull off a good run. Also, this is like the 4th year in a row that we've heard people claiming Forsberg would be gone for the next year. At this point, unless he clearly states he's retiring from the NHL, I see no reason to think he's gone. I don't think he's done that, yet.

I know people look at teams like Tampa and feel like how great they have it with their cup win with a young team overall, but people always forget the years, and years, and years of painful hockey watching your team lose and lose. Being in the top pick lottery is only fun during the draft and training camp. The rest of the year -- it sucks. On top of that, even if you go through all those years, you aren't even getting a sure shot of having a good team, what to speak of great team. The Avalanche have a great team right now. Why break that up just on a hope to build another great team? If Forsberg leaves, they'll take a big hit. They will still stay on top, though.

Colorado Avalanche 04-01-2005 06:53 AM

Blake would be too cheap to trade, with his age and salary it would be pretty stupid to trade him. About Hejduk he has done 85 goals in 2 years and he's 29 years old with 5 million(24% rollback) per year salary.Hejduk is maybe worth of trading because his trade value is d@mn high and every other teams wants natural goalscorer like him, but should they trade him away?

no, when Sakic and Blake gone, avalanche will go ufa market or play Wolski/Richardson/Forsberg sakic place, Boychuk maybe ready to take Blake place in NHL.

PapaBear* 04-01-2005 07:50 AM

I think it would be wise for Lacross to trade a star away - Blake! They can do without him, and they want depth right now.

Hey, dont knock against Vinny, he is a decent 2nd line C, he was the sharks #1 so...

Perhaps Blake, Gratton and 2nd to Philly for Handxuzs, and Gagne.

Colorado Avalanche 04-01-2005 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PapaBear
I think it would be wise for Lacross to trade a star away - Blake! They can do without him, and they want depth right now.

Hey, dont knock against Vinny, he is a decent 2nd line C, he was the sharks #1 so...

Perhaps Blake, Gratton and 2nd to Philly for Handxuzs, and Gagne.

Gagne would be great, but Colorado needs big guys like gratton..

NFITO 04-01-2005 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Color@do @v@l@nche
Boychuk maybe ready to take Blake place in NHL.

now that's optimism!!

I don't think the Avs do anything in terms of moving their vets for younger players... there is still way too much uncertainty with the CBA to even start thinking about that.

Hejduk first of all, isn't going any where IMO... he's a top player, on a decent contract for his skill level and contribution - why would they even consider dealing him?? And forget rollbacks and how they could help... if a player is over paid at $9mill right now, he'll be overpaid with a rollback as well... same as a player at $3mill or $6mill, etc... a rollback brings down the salary levels across the board - so the underpaid will still be underpaid, and the overpaid will still remain overpaid.

I also can not see the NHL, with a new CBA, all of sudden forcing the current top teams into complete rebuilds. It doesn't make sense on a league basis to sell the game. What good does it do to the NHL when the current weakest markets all of sudden become buyers and can add payroll, but the markets which are the strengths of the NHL - the Detroits, Colorados, NYs, Philly, Toronto, etc - are forced into rebuilding modes... it doesn't help to sell the game by forcing this issue.

The league IMO will allow teams a period to get under the cap, whatever cap it is, so they aren't forced to rebuild entirely. It only makes sense for the long term financial strength of the league to do it this way. I don't see them offering this up right now though in negotiations, but it will be something IMO that the league uses as something they're "giving" the player's side - where there is either a luxury tax system, or a 2-4 yr period to slowly reduce payroll, or some other kind of soft cap revisions built in.

I don't see the Avs having to go from a $60mill payroll to a $40mill one and being forced to move Sakic or Blake, or not having the option to re-sign Forsberg if he wants to come back.... it just doesn't make good sense for the league to force this onto teams this quickly, and teams that are part of the strenghts of the current NHL market.

Now if there is a forced issue, where the Avs have to cut payroll, don't expect anything back for Blake. In fact I'd bet that he passes through waivers given his salary, and given the number of quality dmen available as free agents. Why would any team pick up Blake's $9mill contract, while giving up an asset, when they could go after Niedermayer as a free agent? In an NHL where teams are forced to drop payroll, a $9mill contract - rollback or not - is just a worthless asset IMO. There will be other players available, either at much cheaper contracts, or teams simply wanting to drop those contracts for whatever they can get.

Then you factor in which teams could even add that kind of contract, even if they are well below a cap line, and the market is going to be dry. Teams like Detroit, NY, Toronto, Philly can afford to pay players that kind of $$, but they will have cap problems themselves... teams like Pittsburg, Nashville, etc that hare well below the cap, can't realistically add those salaries anyways - and in nearly every case, such teams would have no use to add an old aging vet who's near the end of his career anyways. If they want to add a #1 guy, better to go after an Aucoin, or even a Leetch at a much lower salary.

Colorado Avalanche 04-01-2005 11:37 AM

why not Boychuk, he's still young and he can develop lot in 2-3 years!?!

not maybe as great as blake, but good ..

we are not gonna trade Blake away that's for sure.. he's more valuable to avalanche than two "ok" prospects.

Habsfan 32 04-01-2005 11:47 AM

The only way that Blake would be traded is for salaray reasons.

NFITO 04-01-2005 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Color@do @v@l@nche
why not Boychuk, he's still young and he can develop lot in 2-3 years!?!

not maybe as great as blake, but good ..

we are not gonna trade Blake away that's for sure.. he's more valuable to avalanche than two "ok" prospects.

I agree that Blake isn't going to be moved... because you'd be lucky to even get 2 okay prospects for him. No team is going to want to add that kind of contact under a new CBA, especially with cheaper free agents available.

And I think it is optimistic to assume that Boychuk can jump into being the #1 dman on a contending team even in 2-3 years, if ever. He could very well make the NHL one day... and one day maybe establish himself as a decent depth guy... hell he could in 2-3 years establish himself as a decent 2nd pairing guy, but to replace Blake - an elite #1 dman on a contending team... I think the odds are against it.

guys like Bouwmeester may one day be a good replacement for Blake... guys like Boychuk - well just hope he makes the NHL first, before you start mentioning him in the same sentence as Blake.

Hasbro 04-01-2005 12:05 PM

Blake is playing out his contract here, not all that bad a prospect.

I have Boychuk pegged as a destitute man's Adam Foote.

andora 04-01-2005 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PapaBear
I think it would be wise for Lacross to trade a star away - Blake! They can do without him, and they want depth right now.

Hey, dont knock against Vinny, he is a decent 2nd line C, he was the sharks #1 so...

Perhaps Blake, Gratton and 2nd to Philly for Handxuzs, and Gagne.

just stop, that trade proposal is disgusting...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Color@do @v@l@nche
why not Boychuk, he's still young and he can develop lot in 2-3 years!?!

not maybe as great as blake, but good ..

we are not gonna trade Blake away that's for sure.. he's more valuable to avalanche than two "ok" prospects.

because he ISN"T READY.. not even close from what i've been reading.. and if he's playing the same type of game in the ahl that he played in moose jaw, i'd cringe having him in the lineup full time at this young age

RoyIsALegend* 04-01-2005 12:39 PM

Johnny Boychuk will never be asked upon to be a #1 or #2 defenseman for Colorado in the future, that's the nice thing.

If he can develop into a second pairing, physical, defensive defenseman than I'll be happy.

We have _four_ of our top seven under 30 years of age with Ossi Vaananen, Karlis Skrastins, John-Michael Liles and Kurt Sauer.

Epsilon 04-01-2005 12:43 PM

Blake would probably go for a return similar to what Robert Lang and Bryan Leetch got.

Hedjuk would bring back a premium package, he's a top player in the prime of his career.

NFITO 04-01-2005 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epsilon
Blake would probably go for a return similar to what Robert Lang and Bryan Leetch got.

I seriously doubt that... how many teams can take on Blake's contract? Lang was making $4mill less than Blake, and Leetch was making $2.6mill less. And both those guys went to big market teams that didn't have a salary cap to worry about.

Now you are going to need a team that can 1) afford to pay that salary, 2) be a team that has enough cap room to add that salary, and 3) be a team that has the capability to use that much of their cap on 1 player, while still contending for a Cup - after all rebuilding teams would have no interest in Blake - it would have to be a team that is trying to go for it all.

So go through all 29 other teams in the league. Can you give me any examples where one team fits all 3 of these criteria?

Lang and Leetch were dealt in a CBA without a cap... that's not the case anymore. Like I said before, I believe that if he was left on waivers, he'd fall through given his contract.... no team can afford to add that kind of salary right now. The teams that have the $$, won't have the cap space, the teams that have the cap space, aren't teams that have $$ to begin with.

RoyIsALegend* 04-01-2005 01:21 PM

Luckily this will never be a concern as:

A) Rob Blake has a full no-trade clause.

B) The Avalanche aren't rebuilding.

C) The Avalanche are not hard-pressed for money.

12# Peter Bondra 04-01-2005 01:23 PM

When the commentators here during a hockey game said that Tomas Slovak should replace Rob Blake in 3-4 season, I laughed for like 10 minutes. :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

I like Slovak but he will NEVER be as good as Blake.

Back to the topic.

All will depend on how the new CBA is worked out. We dont know yet how things will turn out. Maybe Blake would agree to a salary cut. Who knows.

Hasbro 04-01-2005 01:25 PM

If Blake's contract is up in 2006, i.e. after this coming season, it's not so much a problem as Yashin's contract. The team can hang onto him, pass the kidney stone and either use the cap space for free agents or sign him at a lower market value. He could also be a deadline deal if neccisary.

Given the lack of a CBA everything is more specualtive than usual.

MeatTornado 04-01-2005 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Color@do @v@l@nche
Gagne would be great, but Colorado needs big guys like gratton..

Handzus is a big, big upgrade over Gratton, and at 6'5, he's even a bit bigger than gratton. Handzus and Gange would be a good return for Blake and Gratton.

andora 04-01-2005 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12# Peter Bondra
When the commentators here during a hockey game said that Tomas Slovak should replace Rob Blake in 3-4 season, I laughed for like 10 minutes. :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

I like Slovak but he will NEVER be as good as Blake.

well no ****, it's how you probably interpreted it... instead of hearing 'slovak will replace blake at blake's level', it should be interpreted as 'slovak will replace blake's spot and replace blake's two way way'

DRL 04-01-2005 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Johnny Boychuk will never be asked upon to be a #1 or #2 defenseman for Colorado in the future, that's the nice thing.

If he can develop into a second pairing, physical, defensive defenseman than I'll be happy.

We have _four_ of our top seven under 30 years of age with Ossi Vaananen, Karlis Skrastins, John-Michael Liles and Kurt Sauer.


hey RIAL do u think lacroix will qualify sauer at over 1 million, i am not too sure and i really cant see sauer taking a paycut to be a 6/7 guy when he could be a 4/5 on other teams and than u add in the history of him not signing after being drafted, makes me wonder whether will see sauer in an avs jersey again


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