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-   -   Value of: Matt Moulson (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1370663)

Riddick 03-08-2013 06:11 AM

Matt Moulson
 
Just wondering what Moulson would get a return of, even if it were a Moulson + a "Streit/Okposo/1st" or whatever.


forget about 'oh he's JT's best bud' or whatever, strictly value-wise what would his value or his value+ bring back?

Psycho Papa Joe 03-08-2013 07:09 AM

Habs offer Rene Bourque, Y.Weber and a 2nd plus a life time of Molson products delivered directly to the Wang residence.

kasper11 03-08-2013 08:19 AM

He is one of the most consistent goal scorers in the league. He would be on pace for his 4th straight 30+ goal season if not for the lockout. Only 7 players have scored more goals than Moulson the last 3.5 years. Yes he plays with Tavares, but other players play with superstars as well and don't score 30+ every year. And he is signed for next season for $3.9M (his cap hit is less than that).

Basically, it would take a lot more than anyone on these boards would offer for the Isles to move him.

CREW99AW 03-08-2013 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe (Post 61234901)
Habs offer Rene Bourque, Y.Weber and a 2nd plus a life time of Molson products delivered directly to the Wang residence.


Because the isles have a glut of unproven youngsters, Snow won't want a depth trade.

Moulson's had 30 goals, 31 goals and 36 goals in his last 3 full seasons. He has 11 goals, 14 assists this season. He makes a cheap $3m+ this season and next.
No 2-3 lesser pieces for Moulson.
Weber would be on the NYI 3rd pairing, fighting for a NHL roster spot against pmds Hickey, De Haan, Donovan.
Bourgue with 5 goals, 5 assists, holds no appeal.


I think it'd be more likely that we'd see impending ufa Lubo, packaged with Moulson.
Snow would want an upgrade for his top 4 or top 6. Not downgrades

Phion Keneuf 03-08-2013 08:27 AM

Moulson + Strome for Kessel + conditional pick

CREW99AW 03-08-2013 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kasper11 (Post 61236569)
He is one of the most consistent goal scorers in the league. He would be on pace for his 4th straight 30+ goal season if not for the lockout. Only 7 players have scored more goals than Moulson the last 3.5 years. Yes he plays with Tavares, but other players play with superstars as well and don't score 30+ every year. And he is signed for next season for $3.9M (his cap hit is less than that).

Basically, it would take a lot more than anyone on these boards would offer for the Isles to move him.

I think the only way Snow moves Moulson, is if they have extension talks in 2013-2014 and Moulson's wants more then Snow is comfortable giving him.

Riseonfire 03-08-2013 08:30 AM

He's about as dependable as it comes for goal scoring. I wouldn't move him for multiple pieces. 1 for 1 or put Moulson in a package.

Felix Unger 03-08-2013 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe (Post 61234901)
Habs offer Rene Bourque, Y.Weber and a 2nd plus a life time of Molson products delivered directly to the Wang residence.

Habs are a poor fit, so I'm not interested until you say 'Beaulieu'. We've got a R. Borques, Y. Webers, and project prospects (what you get for a late 2nd) up the wazoo.

Los Angeles has what we need (Bernier). We have players that would help them (Visnovsky, Moulson). If there can't be a deal worked out there, we should keep Moulson.

There other teams that could use Moulson (the Rangers and Devils come to mind), but he won't get dealt there.

Cheers,

Dan-o

CREW99AW 03-08-2013 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf (Post 61236831)
Moulson + Strome for Kessel + conditional pick


No thanks. Some NYI fans are soured on Moulson because he isn't a physical banger, doesn't play strong defense. You know... the same complaints about Kessel who makes $2m more per season;)


Also, while both are ufas in 2014, Moulson has said he loves playing on LI and the organization(guzzling that cherry koolaid :laugh:). When he was scheduled to become a ufa last time around, he signed a cheap 3 yr extension, without testing the market.
I am not as confident talks go as smoothly next summer, but I expect Moulson's contract demands, will be considerably less then Kessel's. I like the isles chances of keeping Moulson, a lot more then their chances of keeping Kessel, who the Toronto media expects will ask for $6m-$8m per.

I don't think Snow would move Moulson alone for 1 yr of Kessel, let alone including Strome.

SingnBluesOnBroadway 03-08-2013 09:04 AM

I would think Moulson would have more value to the Islanders than he would around the league. He has definite chemistry with Tavares. No reason to mess with that.

etherialone 03-08-2013 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan-o16 (Post 61236947)
Habs are a poor fit, so I'm not interested until you say 'Beaulieu'. We've got a R. Borques, Y. Webers, and project prospects (what you get for a late 2nd) up the wazoo.

Los Angeles has what we need (Bernier). We have players that would help them (Visnovsky, Moulson). If there can't be a deal worked out there, we should keep Moulson.

There other teams that could use Moulson (the Rangers and Devils come to mind), but he won't get dealt there.

Cheers,

Dan-o

I was the lunatic shouting at the gate when Moulson was allowed to simply walk away from us and that for the most part was what happened. In LA he developed as very good two way game and hit pretty hard to boot. He really wasn't seen to be developing into a sniper but he had proven that he clearly had the skills to become one. His performance in the AHL showed that.

So while I don't see us dealing to get him back (which is truly a shame) I agree that a deal based around Bernier and stuff would be where a deal could be made.

Moulson for Bernier plus a Dprospect not named Forbort?

I truly suck at these sort of comparative value things but the Kings are loaded with talented D prospects who are on the cusp of being NHL ready. Muzzin came up and has proven himself to be a good young Dman (top 3 in most every category among rookie D with 8points and +8) for us. Hickey seems to be doing pretty good for you guys and we added Ellerby who is playing for us too.

Deslauriers is going to be another good Dman from our pool that is ready for his cup o tea with the team today (but we aren't in a position to give it to him right now). He is a solid skating PMD who can fight and play physical. He plays well with Hickey, has enough size and is a great locker room guy with solid leadership skills (according to his coach and a few of the Monarchs).

Maybe Ellerby?

I don't know, Moulson is an underrated sniper so I would add to JB to fit the Isles needs in trying to get him. I doubt DL would be I would.

SLAPSHOT723 03-08-2013 10:00 AM

There's no reason to trade Moulson at all. Wing isn't a strong suit on the Islanders now and in the future, and he's our best winger now.

SI90 03-08-2013 10:05 AM

Moulson Might only do one thing very well, but that one thing is very important in hockey..He scores goals....

He cant skate,hit,or play defense but he has scored three straight 30 goal seasons...

hes one of the least of the Isles troubles if at all...

CREW99AW 03-08-2013 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonellisghost (Post 61239397)
Moulson for Bernier plus a Dprospect not named Forbort?

I truly suck at these sort of comparative value things but the Kings are loaded with talented D prospects who are on the cusp of being NHL ready. Muzzin came up and has proven himself to be a good young Dman (top 3 in most every category among rookie D with 8points and +8) for us. Hickey seems to be doing pretty good for you guys and we added Ellerby who is playing for us too.



I don't know, Moulson is an underrated sniper so I would add to JB to fit the Isles needs in trying to get him. I doubt DL would be I would.

I doubt Snow would be any more eager then DL, to make such an exchange.

The same complaint about Moulson's lack of defensive play and not being a banger, can be made about Boyes, an impending ufa who's putting up pts on Tavares rw.

Who are Tavares's wingers next season with Moulson traded for Bernier+ and Boyes gone? The inconsistent Bailey and the inconsistent Okposo? Maybe kids, Strome + Nino,who haven't earned those spots and may not be ready for those roles?

Felix Unger 03-08-2013 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonellisghost (Post 61239397)
So while I don't see us dealing to get him back (which is truly a shame) I agree that a deal based around Bernier and stuff would be where a deal could be made.

Yeah, I also suck at value. But, I agree, there's fit. Kings could use a finisher, we could use some stability in net. It's a solid basis for a deal.

Cheers,

Dan-o

leeroggy 03-08-2013 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW (Post 61240965)
I doubt Snow would be any more eager then DL, to make such an exchange.

The same complaint about Moulson's lack of defensive play and not being a banger, can be made about Boyes, an impending ufa who's putting up pts on Tavares rw.

Who are Tavares's wingers next season with Moulson traded for Bernier+ and Boyes gone? The inconsistent Bailey and the inconsistent Okposo? Maybe kids, Strome + Nino,who haven't earned those spots and may not be ready for those roles?

I think if you got Bernier and a solid D prospect (maybe we add Poulin for their goalie depth and we get back a 2nd too) you have to pull the trigger. We need a younger goalie that ALREADY has proven themselves in the NHL.

Who will play with JT? I think Anders Lee would fit in VERY NICELY on the left side and I am all for Bailey getting a chance, with Nino sitting in reserve.

If Nelson lands the 2nd center spot then Strome could be tried on JT's right.

Either way, I am willing to take on this trade because Bernier has done it at the NHL level when given the chance and Nabby is not going to be around a lot longer.

AL / JT / Strome
Bailey / Frans / KO
Grabs / Nelson / Nino
MM / CC / Ullstrom

Looks pretty good to me for the future. Any mix and match off those players isn't bad at all. We need the proven goalie BADLY.

CREW99AW 03-08-2013 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeroggy (Post 61241711)
I think if you got Bernier and a solid D prospect (maybe we add Poulin for their goalie depth and we get back a 2nd too) you have to pull the trigger. We need a younger goalie that ALREADY has proven themselves in the NHL.

Who will play with JT? I think Anders Lee would fit in VERY NICELY on the left side and I am all for Bailey getting a chance, with Nino sitting in reserve.
If Nelson lands the 2nd center spot then Strome could be tried on JT's right.

Either way, I am willing to take on this trade because Bernier has done it at the NHL level when given the chance and Nabby is not going to be around a lot longer.

AL / JT / Strome
Bailey / Frans / KO
Grabs / Nelson / Nino
MM / CC / Ullstrom

Looks pretty good to me for the future. Any mix and match off those players isn't bad at all. We need the proven goalie BADLY.

You suggest that the isles need to get a younger goalie, that has already proven himself in the NHL, then propose a kid in college this season, a kid in juniors this season or a couple playing in the AHL this season, be given unearned spots on Tavares wing in 2013-2014.

Too many what ifs , too much counting on kids, 3 of whom have played 0 nhl games.

leeroggy 03-08-2013 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW (Post 61242273)
You suggest that the isles need to get a younger goalie, that has already proven himself in the NHL, then propose a kid in college this season, a kid in juniors this season or a couple playing in the AHL this season, be given unearned spots on Tavares wing in 2013-2014.

Too many what ifs , too much counting on kids, 3 of whom have played 0 nhl games.

Anders Lee will already be 23 when the next season starts, that's a little different level than a 19-20 year-old with little pro experience. He is a BIG KID, not someone who needs to develop physically.

At some point you have to make the decision to give players who proved themselves at a certain level the chance to come up. I compare Lee with Pat Flatley, who also made the leap from college directly to the NHL. And what is it with 'unearned spots'? What did Moulson, Boyes or PA do to EARN their spot on JT's line?? There is no such thing. In team sports chemistry is DEVELOPED by playing together, not mined via some database.

But since you want to define earned, what more can AL do to earn a shot? He is a top player in a top developmental program. We have not had a winning team for a long time; how is Moulson untouchable in that scenario? If you want quality you offer quality. With the glut of offensive talent coming up we need to open some slots and if you can fill where you are weak (and I can't believe you would argue goaltending isn't an issue for the future) you need to try to do so.

CREW99AW 03-08-2013 11:22 AM

Quote:

Anders Lee will already be 23 when the next season starts, that's a little different level than a 19-20 year-old with little pro experience. He is a BIG KID, not someone who needs to develop physically.
The fact that Lee has the body to play in the NHL, doesn't make him a 1st line nhler. Heck, it doesn't even mean he's ready for the NHL.

Quote:

At some point you have to make the decision to give players who proved themselves at a certain level the chance to come up. I compare Lee with Pat Flatley, who also made the leap from college directly to the NHL. And what is it with 'unearned spots'? What did Moulson, Boyes or PA do to EARN their spot on JT's line?? There is no such thing. In team sports chemistry is DEVELOPED by playing together, not mined via some database.
Moulson had several good yrs in the AHL, before signing a one-year, two-way contract with the Isles. he was 25 yrs old. He wasn't assured an NHL roster spot or a 1st line spot with the isles. He earned those with his play after joining the team.

Parenteau took the same path, playing productively in the AHL for several seasons. He was signed by the isles as a ufa, but given no assurances. He had an out clause to go play in Europe if he didn't make the NYI roster

Boyes was an NHL vet, who had a 40 goal nhl season in his past.

Quote:

But since you want to define earned, what more can AL do to earn a shot? He is a top player in a top developmental program. We have not had a winning team for a long time; how is Moulson untouchable in that scenario? If you want quality you offer quality. With the glut of offensive talent coming up we need to open some slots and if you can fill where you are weak (and I can't believe you would argue goaltending isn't an issue for the future) you need to try to do so.

AL can come to training camp like all the other unproven youngsters. He can outplay his competition and impress the coaches to win an NHL spot.
If Snow has soured on Poulin/Nilson/Koskinen, then let him explore goalie trade options. I just don't agree that you trade Moulson for a goalie, then pencil in players with 0 nhl games onto the 1st line or pencil in Nino into Moulson's spot.

I think those spots should be earned by their play in the NHL, against NHL talent.

leeroggy 03-08-2013 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW (Post 61244373)
Moulson had several good yrs in the AHL, before signing a one-year, two-way contract with the Isles. he was 25 yrs old. He wasn't assured an NHL roster spot or a 1st line spot with the isles. He earned those with his play after joining the team.

Parenteau took the same path, playing productively in the AHL for several seasons. He was signed by the isles as a ufa, but given no assurances. He had an out clause to go play in Europe if he didn't make the NYI roster

Boyes was an NHL vet, who had a 40 goal nhl season in his past.

You're describing Keith Aucoin to the letter. He was handed a spot right away as the 2/2A center. I doubt many of the Isles forward spots were truly opened up to competition in camp this year given that some were not even invited. And he certainly didn't do enough to keep the spot.

Let's not kid ourselves, we have ONE first line player. MM is not a first liner on a quality team given his limitations of being just a goal scorer. And Boyes WAS GIVEN the other spot; he was signed specifically to fill it.

CREW99AW 03-08-2013 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeroggy (Post 61244901)
You're describing Keith Aucoin to the letter. He was handed a spot right away as the 2/2A center. I doubt many of the Isles forward spots were truly opened up to competition in camp this year given that some were not even invited. And he certainly didn't do enough to keep the spot.

Let's not kid ourselves, we have ONE first line player. MM is not a first liner on a quality team given his limitations of being just a goal scorer. And Boyes WAS GIVEN the other spot; he was signed specifically to fill it.

Read some of Cappy's preseason comments. He talks about how they had no time to experiment with chemistry in a shortened season, so they were opening the season with Moulson and Okposo on Tavares wings. He spoke about how heavily he and Thompson had scouted AHL teams during the lockout, to look for possible waiver pickups.

Boyes opened the season on the 2nd line with Grabner and Nielsen. It was Okposo's inconsistent play and offensive struggles, along with Boyes stronger play, that got Boyes promoted to the 1st line and Okposo demoted to the 2nd line

When asked about Nino, Snow spoke about how he wanted wanted Nino getting 20+ mins a game, in all situations. He hadn't been asked about Strome/Nelson/Donovan, but it makes sense that the ises would want all their top youngsters, getting 20+ mins a game.

19NYSports91 03-08-2013 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf (Post 61236831)
Moulson + Strome for Kessel + conditional pick

No thanks

Felix Unger 03-08-2013 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW (Post 61240965)
I doubt Snow would be any more eager then DL, to make such an exchange.

The same complaint about Moulson's lack of defensive play and not being a banger, can be made about Boyes, an impending ufa who's putting up pts on Tavares rw.

Who are Tavares's wingers next season with Moulson traded for Bernier+ and Boyes gone? The inconsistent Bailey and the inconsistent Okposo? Maybe kids, Strome + Nino,who haven't earned those spots and may not be ready for those roles?

You got to give to get.

Who is going to play goal next season?

We have more answers (and potential answers) on wing than we do in net. Poulin, IMO, is a career backup. Nilsson has a mystery ailment. What, are we going to overpay for Mike Smith? Pray that Jimmy Howard or Nik Backstrom go insane and join NYI? Ha!

Stability in net would help this team a ton. Moreover, I'd focus on making a deal for Bernier before the Devils do, because you just know that's what is going to happen. We're going to be out of it. We have an advantage to trade for a goalie now.

Cheers,

Dan-o

CREW99AW 03-08-2013 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan-o16 (Post 61248987)
You got to give to get.

Who is going to play goal next season?

We have more answers (and potential answers) on wing than we do in net. Poulin, IMO, is a career backup. Nilsson has a mystery ailment. What, are we going to overpay for Mike Smith? Pray that Jimmy Howard or Nik Backstrom go insane and join NYI? Ha!

Stability in net would help this team a ton. Moreover, I'd focus on making a deal for Bernier before the Devils do, because you just know that's what is going to happen. We're going to be out of it. We have an advantage to trade for a goalie now.

Cheers,

Dan-o

Based on his play this season, I'm very comfortable giving Nabokov a 1 yr extension.
Isles just have to make sure he's not overworked. Not surprisingly, his level of play slips when he's overworked.

and btw, I'm not saying Snow shouldn't explore other goalie options. I'm saying I don't want Moulson traded for that goalie and for the isles to replace Moulson+ Boyes on Tavares wing, with the inconsistent KO/Bailey or prospects in college/juniors/AHL.

Felix Unger 03-08-2013 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW (Post 61249483)
Based on his play this season, I'm very comfortable giving Nabokov a 1 yr extension.
Isles just have to make sure he's not overworked. Not surprisingly, his level of play slips when he's overworked.

This is the first year I've had gamecenter live and have watched other teams/goaltenders regularly. I can only conclude that you have become used to mediocrity. On most days, Nabakov is an average starter. On some days he's good. On other days he's terrible. He's getting older. I expect his play to further deteriorate. Other starting goalies are either better or more consistent.

It is a problem I would address as soon as possible. I don't have your Snow-globe crystal ball, of course. ;)

Heck, I would resign Nabakov *and* trade for Bernier.

Cheers,

Dan-o


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