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eXile59 03-09-2013 07:53 PM

Penalty Kill
 
So we are pretty awful on the PK. I mean lower third of the league awful. The only real part we are missing from years past when we were much better is Staal.

The kid was developed as an elite PKer & with out him we've went from 3rd to 20th. Maybe lower after tonight. This is a major problem going forward.

wheelz87 03-09-2013 07:58 PM

So passive. Just stand around and let teams do whatever they want with it. No skill on the PK allows teams to be unafraid to turn the puck over.

Meanwhile Toronto couldn't be more aggressive. That's how it should be. They aren't even respecting Sid, going right at him. We are forced to make crisp, on point and precise passes to set up something.

MrBurghundy 03-09-2013 07:58 PM

I'll just put this here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBurgundy (Post 61335783)
Dear God people. The PK isn't a personnel issue. It's BY DESIGN that they front the shooter and leave the guy alone in front of the goalie. They are trying to block shots and stop passes across the box. The strategy needs to change. Until then I don't care who you put out there.


MrBurghundy 03-09-2013 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheelz87 (Post 61337101)
So passive. Just stand around and let teams do whatever they want with it. No skill on the PK allows teams to be unafraid to turn the puck over.

Meanwhile Toronto couldn't be more aggressive. That's how it should be. They aren't even respecting Sid, going right at him. We are forced to make crisp, on point and precise passes to set up something.

That's another thing. You need to learn when to pick your spots though.

Sutter16 03-09-2013 08:00 PM

Staal is missed more then i thought on the PK. I agree it is a pretty big problem.

wheelz87 03-09-2013 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBurgundy (Post 61337247)
That's another thing. You need to learn when to pick your spots though.

No doubt. I don't need the Pens going hyper agressive or anything, or even as much as Toronto. But you have to pressure the puck a little bit.

eXile59 03-09-2013 08:05 PM

I think there are a couple issues at work

-Staal was really good at killing penalties & he's gone
-Glass isn't very good at killing penalties
-We don't cut off the middle of the ice. The "box" is way too big. Bylsma is just so opposed to being conservative & collapsing even on the PK. His answer to everything is be more aggressive.
-That stupid switch by forwards at the point. All it does is free up a shooting lane.
-As some one mentioned no & I mean no one is afraid of us scoring short handed. We are a handful of teams yet to score short handed.

fate 03-09-2013 08:56 PM

2 goals in 29 seconds? changing the PK at this point couldn't make it worse than that

tijuana knuckles 03-09-2013 09:18 PM

We never ever win a face-off either which further complicates the matter

Nei1ey* 03-09-2013 09:33 PM

Flyers broke our PK in the playoffs last year and it hasn't been the same since then. Staal or not.

Zen Arcade 03-09-2013 10:10 PM

The PK was still terrific without Staal in the first half of 2010-11.

Put me in the camp that blames the system rather than the personnel.

I'd also like to know why Bylsma had a winger matched up with Bozak (55% on face offs) on the first goal the Leafs scored tonight. What did he think would happen?

Ugene Malkin 03-09-2013 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXile59 (Post 61336703)
So we are pretty awful on the PK. I mean lower third of the league awful. The only real part we are missing from years past when we were much better is Staal.

The kid was developed as an elite PKer & with out him we've went from 3rd to 20th. Maybe lower after tonight. This is a major problem going forward.

Here's where we differ from as soon as last year.

They had multiple players who could PK on D. Lets remember Orpik is on an island here this season.

Last couple seasons there was Michalek, and years before that there was Gill and Scuderi. Orpik pretty much has to take on the full burden of the PK, and him leading the PK TOI is proof of this. He had a ton of help over the years, but this year he has none. I'm talking guys you can actually count on.

I think those who want to get rid of him are crazy, he needs help not gotten rid of.

MrBurghundy 03-09-2013 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen Arcade (Post 61350099)
The PK was still terrific without Staal in the first half of 2010-11.

Put me in the camp that blames the system rather than the personnel.

I'd also like to know why Bylsma had a winger matched up with Bozak (55% on face offs) on the first goal the Leafs scored tonight. What did he think would happen?

That's the problem. He wasn't thinking.

MrBurghundy 03-09-2013 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin (Post 61350595)
Here's where we differ from as soon as last year.

They had multiple players who could PK on D. Lets remember Orpik is on an island here this season.

Last couple seasons there was Michalek, and years before that there was Gill and Scuderi. Orpik pretty much has to take on the full burden of the PK, and him leading the PK TOI is proof of this. He had a ton of help over the years, but this year he has none. I'm talking guys you can actually count on.

I think those who want to get rid of him are crazy, he needs help not gotten rid of.

Orpik needs coached to do the things that come naturally to him. Not to completely ignore the man standing his ass directly in front of our goalie, which is what he's currently being coached to do.

eXile59 03-10-2013 10:26 AM

We are now 23rd in the league. Only 7 teams are worse.

When our forwards attack the guys along the boards they just leave the entire middle of the ice open & our d-men are screwed. So a lot of it definitely system. Like I said Bylsma's answer to everything is be more aggressive.

I think adding some one like Eric Belanger for a late round pick would be nice. I'll admit I haven't seen a lot of him but he's known for PKing & he logs a lot of minutes on 8th ranked Oilers PK. Maybe some one who sees more Oiler games can comment.

Ogrezilla 03-10-2013 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXile59 (Post 61363281)
We are now 23rd in the league. Only 7 teams are worse.

When our forwards attack the guys along the boards they just leave the entire middle of the ice open & our d-men are screwed. So a lot of it definitely system. Like I said Bylsma's answer to everything is be more aggressive.

I think adding some one like Eric Belanger for a late round pick would be nice. I'll admit I haven't seen a lot of him but he's known for PKing & he logs a lot of minutes on 8th ranked Oilers PK. Maybe some one who sees more Oiler games can comment.

its in a really weird level where its aggressive enough to leave big openings, but not aggressive enough to actually threaten to take the puck the other way. Its a mess.

eXile59 03-10-2013 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogrezilla (Post 61363469)
its in a really weird level where its aggressive enough to leave big openings, but not aggressive enough to actually threaten to take the puck the other way. Its a mess.

Well when you have Tanner Glass & Craig Adams starring down your throat no one is really too afraid of them going the other way. Those are the kind of guys you collapse around the net & let them take some shots for the team. Not the kind of players like Staal was where the other team was afraid to turn it over.

Ogrezilla 03-10-2013 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXile59 (Post 61363755)
Well when you have Tanner Glass & Craig Adams starring down your throat no one is really too afraid of them going the other way. Those are the kind of guys you collapse around the net & let them take some shots for the team. Not the kind of players like Staal was where the other team was afraid to turn it over.

ya, but Cooke, Dupuis and Sutter combined for 8 short handed goals last year.

either way, we need to pick one or the other. If we are being aggressive, we need to actually be aggressive. If we are being passive, we need to tighten up a lot. We have had guys in no man's land too much lately. And I just don't get the strategy of letting them screen the goalie with no resistance by the D. But its obviously by design.

Jacob 03-10-2013 10:57 AM

I think if we choose to be more aggressive we need to put different guys on the PK. Swap Cooke & Adams with guys with wheels like Vitale and Kunitz.

Ogrezilla 03-10-2013 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob (Post 61364111)
I think if we choose to be more aggressive we need to put different guys on the PK. Swap Cooke & Adams with guys with wheels like Vitale and Kunitz.

adams and glass sure. Cooke is one of our best aggressive PK guys. 10 SH points in the last 2 years. Hell, Adams has 7.

even with Staal out a lot the last few years, Cooke, Dupuis and Adams have been a good aggressive PK unit.

Jacob 03-10-2013 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogrezilla (Post 61364153)
adams and glass sure. Cooke is one of our best aggressive PK guys. 10 SH points in the last 2 years. Hell, Adams has 7.

even with Staal out a lot the last few years, Cooke, Dupuis and Adams have been a good aggressive PK unit.

Stastically though, Cooke is actually our worst PKer, being on the ice for 16 goals against while shorthanded. Next for forwards is Sutter with 10. Adams has been on for 9 and Glass for 3. Glass has about 40% less overall SH time from Cooke though. For d-men, Orpik's been on for 15 GAA. Martin 9.

The stats may be skewed a little not only based on just plain old bad luck, a small sample size, overall ice time while short handed and also because it's usually Adams & Orpik who are out for 5-on-3s with one other player.. sometimes Cooke, Sometimes Dupuis and sometimes Martin as I recall... and Adams and Orpik have even played basically the entirety of some pretty long 5-on-3 kills this year. Obviously if you're the go-to unit for 5-on-3s you're gonna be on the ice for more GAA.

I just feel like if you're relying on guys who are maybe on the decline a little in terms of their overall skillset, like Cooke and Adams, of course the PK is going to dip a little. I don't understand why, in the last 4-5 years, Bylsma and his staff have made no effort to develop new penalty killing forwards amongst the young forwards that we've had. I feel like Kennedy would make a good penalty killer with his speed and tenacity.. Vitale was a good one in the AHL as I recall. Jeffrey scored a ton of shorthanded goals one year in Wilkes-Barre too. It's not like those guys are being saved for 5-on-5 play or the powerplay like Sid, Kunitz or Geno.

I don't honestly pay much attention to other teams' penalty killing aside from just their overall tactics.. maybe we need to incorporate more guys into the PK. Instead of just rolling about 2 D pairings and 3 forward pairings.. Maybe we should roll all 3 D pairings on the PK and as many as 5 or 6 forward pairings. That way our PKers will be fresher, and we'll get more skilled guys out there, and give the opposition different looks that they might have more trouble adjusting to.

Ogrezilla 03-10-2013 11:29 AM

Matt Cooke is coming off his second most productive season of his career. He is on pace to beat it on a per game basis.

I think those guys are having worse years because they are playing differently than they have played the past years, which has worked for them.

I completely agree about the young guys though. No reason Jeffrey and Vitale especially don't do some PKing. I also agree with giving different looks.

Killahpunk 03-10-2013 11:40 AM

Our PK needs Joe Victory! He's our best face off guy for one, plus he's willing to sacrifice the body and block shot, not to mention he's a relentless worker.

Uemoda 03-10-2013 11:40 AM

Zach Sill.

Craig Adams is pretty much done.

Fordy 03-10-2013 11:57 AM

You ever play NHL 13 against someone that hasn't before and you take a penalty but you really don't notice because you still possess the puck in their end the whole time?

Malkin-Crosby-Kunitz
Letang

Just never let the PP have the puck and terrify them of every mistake.


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