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-   -   Speculation: Expansion (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1372235)

sens2k9 03-10-2013 07:49 AM

Expansion
 
It's been speculated that they are looking to add two new teams in the next few years. All the talk is about where those teams will be... But I just realized that expansion means expansion draft.
Does anybody remember the rules for the last expansion draft? If so... How screwed are we?

BonkTastic 03-10-2013 08:37 AM

The last expansion draft was in the year 2000, for two teams: Columbus and Minnesota.


In the 2000 expansion draft, teams were allowed to protect either:
- one goaltender, five defensemen, and nine forwards
or
- two goaltenders, three defensemen, and seven forwards


This differs VASTLY from the 1992 Expansion Draft (our draft), in which teams were allowed to protect two goaltenders and fourteen position players. The Sens and Lightning were pretty screwed from that draft, and the garbage team Ottawa iced that year was a major motivating force to changing the rules of the expansion draft the next year for Anaheim and Florida.


... so, assuming we're working with the 2000 expansion draft rules:
- First and second year pros were exempt.
- At least one defenceman left unprotected by each team had to have appeared in at least 40 games in the 1999–2000 season or 70 games in the 1998–99 season and 1999–2000 seasons combined. At least two forwards left unprotected by each team had to have met the same requirements (or at least, that's as per Wikipedia).


The thing is, we're already 2 CBA's older than the last expansion team, so I imagine they'd shuffle up expansion rules a bit. Probably not a major re-working, but a tweak here or there might be expected.

Lenny the Lynx 03-10-2013 08:45 AM

Dammit I never should have bought that Mike Lundin jersey

OmniSens 03-10-2013 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BumperStumper (Post 61361125)
Dammit I never should have bought that Mike Lundin jersey

:laugh: what were you thinking? I would have never touched that jersey...unless...:sarcasm:?

sg58 03-10-2013 08:54 AM

Ran through a thing like this the other month. Under old format, expansion teams would get quality goaltending, some decent overpriced D and nothing but tweener forwards.

Fenix Rises 2026 03-10-2013 09:00 AM

Quote:

In the 2000 expansion draft, teams were allowed to protect either:
- one goaltender, five defensemen, and nine forwards
or
- two goaltenders, three defensemen, and seven forwards
As a young team, this could really screw us. I can't work out a roster where we don't have some important young players not covered. We'd probably lose Andy or Lehner through this.

lafite 03-10-2013 09:01 AM

Can you leave a guy with a no movement clause unprotected in an expansion draft?

BonkTastic 03-10-2013 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steffeG (Post 61361231)
Ran through a thing like this the other month. Under old format, expansion teams would get quality goaltending, some decent overpriced D and nothing but tweener forwards.

Yeah... best case scenario, a team gets lucky because someone dumps a skill guy who has some flaws in his game... an Andrew Brunette-type: a guy who comes out of nowhere to become a dependable scorer on an NHL team.

BonkTastic 03-10-2013 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lafite (Post 61361325)
Can you leave a guy with a no movement clause unprotected in an expansion draft?

That's a really good question, to which I have absolutely no answer for you.

But a great question nonetheless. Does it FORCE a team to use a "protection" slot on him? Are NMC's not valid for purposes of expansion? That could really bone a team.

Greeningfan14 03-10-2013 09:10 AM

What would a realistic pool of players unprotected from the Sens look like?

Fenix Rises 2026 03-10-2013 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReleaseTheLehner (Post 61361467)
What would a realistic pool of players unprotected from the Sens look like?

Depends highly on when this would happen and the definition of 1st and 2nd year pros being exempt.

BonkTastic 03-10-2013 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReleaseTheLehner (Post 61361467)
What would a realistic pool of players unprotected from the Sens look like?

Assuming the expansion draft was held this summer, this is my list:

Two goaltenders, three defensemen, and seven forwards
- Anderson
- Lehner
- Karlsson
- Methot
- Cowen
- Spezza
- Michalek
- Neil
- Turris
- Condra
- Smith
- Greening
(I left Alfie off the list because who knows if he'll retire or not. If Alfie doesn't retire, move Greening to the "Unprotected" list)

Unprotected:
F: Latendresse (UFA), Regin, O'Brien, Daugavins, Dziurzynski, Da Costa, Petersson, Hoffman,
D: Phillips, Gonchar (UFA), Lundin (UFA), Weircioch, Benoit, Gryba, Borowiecki,
G: Bishop (though I assume we would trade him before leaving him unprotected)

Exempt:
Silfverberg, Zibanejad, Stone, all our kids without 2 pro years yet (Noesen, Puempel, etc...) + unsigned draft picks.


At the end of the day, it would suck to lose one of our unprotected guys, but I don't think it would leave us with too big a hole to fill. An easy-ish UFA signing would replace him, IMO.

Greeningfan14 03-10-2013 09:34 AM

Thanks Bonk. If Greening was unprotected and picked, some houses would be burnt.

koreaboy 03-10-2013 09:34 AM

If we knew expansion was coming as early as next year, we MUST move a goalie beforehand. It would be a huge loss to let one of those three assets go for asbolutely nothing. Trouble is, other teams would know that too and lowball us.

BonkTastic 03-10-2013 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koreaboy (Post 61361941)
If we knew expansion was coming as early as next year, we MUST move a goalie beforehand. It would be a huge loss to let one of those three assets go for asbolutely nothing. Trouble is, other teams would know that too and lowball us.

Agreed.

Good thing there's no expansion draft coming next year.

Fenix Rises 2026 03-10-2013 09:46 AM

That's a really good argument for making a decision on a goaltender earlier rather than later. (Obviously hinges on the expansion draft rules being the same as before).

Trade now and get a good return, AND save us from losing a few other good players down the road.

Cujomi 03-10-2013 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonkTastic (Post 61362043)
Agreed.

Good thing there's no expansion draft coming next year.

But it also means that guys like Zibanejad, Stone and Silfverberg could have 2 years under their belts by the time it happens (assuming it does).

WantEggRoll 03-10-2013 09:54 AM

From Bonk's example Ottawa has 16 unprotected players. There would likely only be 2 expansion teams being added to the league looking to add what 23 players each? If each team puts up close to the same number of players then that is 480 players for 2 teams to select 46 players out of. I've never seen an expansion draft occur (was 5 or so when Ottawa came to town), so not sure if my math is exactly right here, but does that not make it very unlikely that Ottawa would lose many players?

Cujomi 03-10-2013 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WantEggRoll (Post 61362445)
From Bonk's example Ottawa has 16 unprotected players. There would likely only be 2 expansion teams being adding to the league looking to add what 23 players each? If each team puts up close to the same number of players then that is 480 players for 2 teams to select 46 players out of. I've never seen an expansion draft occur (was 5 or so when Ottawa came to town), so not sure if my math is exactly right here, but does that not make it very unlikely that Ottawa would lose many players?

Depends on what you feel about our depth. If this happens in two years and guys like Silfverberg, Stone or Zibanejad need to be protected all of a sudden Smith, Condra and Greening get the short stick. I don't see many situations where a guy like Greening or Smith don't get picked up...though 2 years from now we might be protecting Smith over Neil.

BeerandHockey 03-10-2013 11:04 AM

Wasn't/Isn't there a rule that would only allow a maximum number of players per team taken? Like 1 per position or max 2 players or something?

BonkTastic 03-10-2013 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerandHockey (Post 61364325)
Wasn't/Isn't there a rule that would only allow a maximum number of players per team taken? Like 1 per position or max 2 players or something?

Pretty sure you can only lose as many players as there are expansion teams.

If one team comes in, you can only lose 1 player. If 2 teams, a max of two players.

Cujomi 03-10-2013 11:31 AM

They should just make it so you can only keep one player and do a fantasy re-draft of the whole league.

MAK19 03-10-2013 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonkTastic (Post 61361867)
Assuming the expansion draft was held this summer, this is my list:

Two goaltenders, three defensemen, and seven forwards
- Anderson
- Lehner
- Karlsson
- Methot
- Cowen
- Spezza
- Michalek
- Neil
- Turris
- Condra
- Smith
- Greening
(I left Alfie off the list because who knows if he'll retire or not. If Alfie doesn't retire, move Greening to the "Unprotected" list)

Unprotected:
F: Latendresse (UFA), Regin, O'Brien, Daugavins, Dziurzynski, Da Costa, Petersson, Hoffman,
D: Phillips, Gonchar (UFA), Lundin (UFA), Weircioch, Benoit, Gryba, Borowiecki,
G: Bishop (though I assume we would trade him before leaving him unprotected)

Exempt:
Silfverberg, Zibanejad, Stone, all our kids without 2 pro years yet (Noesen, Puempel, etc...) + unsigned draft picks.


At the end of the day, it would suck to lose one of our unprotected guys, but I don't think it would leave us with too big a hole to fill. An easy-ish UFA signing would replace him, IMO.

and that leaves Wier, Boro and Gryba as the unprotected gold.

I would protect Wier before Methot. Wier has awesome potential. Two-way #3 d-man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cujomi (Post 61365379)
They should just make it so you can only keep one player and do a fantasy re-draft of the whole league.

Protech SPEZzza!!!!!!11!!!!!

BonkTastic 03-10-2013 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows (Post 61367895)
and that leaves Wier, Boro and Gryba as the unprotected gold.

I would protect Wier before Methot. Wier has awesome potential. Two-way #3 d-man.

This is the winner of the "least surprising thing I have read on the internet today" award.

Kickabrat 03-10-2013 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenix Rises 2026 (Post 61362193)
That's a really good argument for making a decision on a goaltender earlier rather than later. (Obviously hinges on the expansion draft rules being the same as before).

Trade now and get a good return, AND save us from losing a few other good players down the road.

Really...earlier rather than later?????

There will be no expansion next season and likely not the following. They would have to announce expansion teams this summer to get them ready for the 2014-15 season. I haven't heard anything indicating potential teams making official presentations to the BoG or even calls for presentations to be made. The earliest expansion happens is likely for the 2015-16 season, after the league has dealt with the problem teams (FLA, PHX, etc).

I'm pretty sure the Sens will have figured out what to do with the goalies by then. No need to do anything sooner than later with regards to expansion drafts.


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