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-   -   Marian Hossa - amnesty buyout candidate? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1372445)

Coldplay 03-10-2013 02:09 PM

Marian Hossa - amnesty buyout candidate?
 
Hey folks (long time no post!),

Larry Brooks had an interesting snippet in his column today, wondering if the Blackhawks will use the amnesty buyout on Marian Hossa:

Quote:

Chicago’s roster contains a pair of critical players in Duncan Keith and Marian Hossa operating on front-loaded contracts prohibited under the current CBA. Without the ability to front-load, manageable cap hits for each — $5.3 million for Hossa; $5.5M for Keith — would have been impossible.

Hence, Chicago either would have been unable to afford either of those two players or another player or two of their opposing array of stars and support players.

The impact of the eight-year limit on contracts has been felt already, with impending unrestricted free agent Ryan Getzlaf re-upping in Anaheim for the maximum term at a cap hit of $8.825M per. That’s indicative of where the league is headed — higher cap hits for marquee players, thus fewer marquee players per team.

It’s a spread-the-wealth mentality that may be attractive in the boardroom but is ugly on the ice. The NHL for decades has adopted a lowest-common-denominator approach — even in pre-cap days by refusing to enforce anti-obstruction rules on the ice, thereby negating the advantage of its most talented players and teams — rather a rising-tide-lifts-all-boats philosophy, even as the Blackhawks have done just that.

Chicago is going to face a painful decision over the summer regarding Hossa, the 34-year-old winger whose contract runs through the 2020-21 season. The cap-recapture formula would inflict penalties of a minimum of $4.6M per season and a maximum of $9.2M per if he were to retire before the expiration of his contract at age 42.

The Blackhawks, who will have approximately $4.6M to fill six NHL roster spots next season, may have to use an amnesty buyout on Hossa over the summer in order to avoid potential future debilitating dead cap space.

Thoughts? Apologies if this has already been discussed.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_...=More%20Sports

TorMenT 03-10-2013 02:10 PM

Obvious answer is obvious. No.

Coldplay 03-10-2013 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorMenT (Post 61375097)
Obvious answer is obvious. No.

I don't know how obvious it is, really. A max cap penalty of $9.2 million per for years is tough for anyone to swallow, particularly a team as stacked and hardpressed to keep all their talent as the Blackhawks.

Not saying they should buy him out, but it's definitely something worth pondering from a $$ standpoint.

Blackhawkswincup 03-10-2013 02:13 PM

Brooks is an idiot who clearly had no real insight into Hawks cap as buying out Hossa is not only stupid but also no needed

Hawks cap situation improves with buyout of Olesz and then even more with buyout/trade of Monty or trade of Frolik this summer

The UFA status of Bolland/Hjalmarsson in summer of 2014 opens up alot more $$ going forward to worry about Kane/Toews extensions

Coldplay 03-10-2013 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup (Post 61375241)
Brooks is an idiot who clearly had no real insight into Hawks cap as buying out Hossa is not only stupid but also no needed

Hawks cap situation improves with buyout of Olesz and then even more with buyout/trade of Monty or trade of Frolik

Brooks has some good sources in the NHL, which is why I thought this was worth posting.

Look, I'm not saying Hossa should be bought out, but you guys haven't addressed the possibility of a severe cap penalty if he retires. Doesn't scare you at all?

Sarava 03-10-2013 02:16 PM

I'm not sure that is true. If so, it's the first I've heard of it. My understanding was that old contracts were grandfathered in under the old system. The NHL and NLHPA had a specific agreement that allowed the Hossa and Luongo contracts to get through. I suspect this writer has his facts wrong.

HockeySensible 03-10-2013 02:16 PM

If Chicago was going to buy him out, it'd be next summer.. and even then, I really doubt he gets bought out.

Coldplay 03-10-2013 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarava (Post 61375377)
I'm not sure that is true. If so, it's the first I've heard of it. My understanding was that old contracts were grandfathered in under the old system. The NHL and NLHPA had a specific agreement that allowed the Hossa and Luongo contracts to get through. I suspect this writer has his facts wrong.

Apparently there is no grandfathering, I don't think Brooks got it wrong:

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Mirtle
Can 100% confirm the new CBA will include the cap benefit recapture formula. It will apply to existing deals "in excess of six years."

https://twitter.com/mirtle/status/288314425461575681

Additional reading: http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl...7517--nhl.html

Quote:

In other words, if any of the elephantine cap cheating deals on the books were traded – be it Kovalchuk, Marian Hossa, Roberto Luongo or Henrik Zetterberg – the club that signed that player to the circumventing deal would take on his cap hit when he retires, even if he’s playing for another NHL team.

Sarava 03-10-2013 02:31 PM

Interesting - and this is the first i've read of it. It doesn't make sense that they would go after these contracts, after they specifically made an agreement that allowed them through. I just think there has to be something that we're missing here.

In any event. the Hawks owner Rocky Wirtz has come out and said Marian Hossa is his favorite player on this team. I think the organization loves him from top to bottom (see the silver stick and the presentation from last week for his 1000th game). And if he has to stay the duration of his contract - then I imagine he will be able to do that. He's still on top of his game and there's no reason to expect that to change anytime soon.

HockeySensible 03-10-2013 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarava (Post 61376163)
Interesting - and this is the first i've read of it. It doesn't make sense that they would go after these contracts, after they specifically made an agreement that allowed them through. I just think there has to be something that we're missing here.

In any event. the Hawks owner Rocky Wirtz has come out and said Marian Hossa is his favorite player on this team. I think the organization loves him from top to bottom (see the silver stick and the presentation from last week for his 1000th game). And if he has to stay the duration of his contract - then I imagine he will be able to do that. He's still on top of his game and there's no reason to expect that to change anytime soon.

I'm not saying the organization doesn't love Hossa, but every player gets presented a silver stick for their 1000th game, regardless of how long they've been with or how much they're loved by the organization they play for.

Sarava 03-10-2013 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HossTheBoss (Post 61376301)
I'm not saying the organization doesn't love Hossa, but every player gets presented a silver stick for their 1000th game, regardless of how long they've been with or how much they're loved by the organization they play for.

Fine, but it just seemed the whole thing was done way over the top. From the speeches, the whole team wearing Hossa jerseys.

Blackhawkswincup 03-10-2013 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HossTheBoss (Post 61376301)
I'm not saying the organization doesn't love Hossa, but every player gets presented a silver stick for their 1000th game, regardless of how long they've been with or how much they're loved by the organization they play for.

Actually most players dont get much for 1k game

HockeySensible 03-10-2013 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup (Post 61376735)
Actually most players dont get much for 1k game

Most players get Silver Sticks for their 1000th games. Maybe they don't all get big ceremonies, but they get their Silver Stick.

IU Hawks fan 03-10-2013 02:54 PM

I doubt most players get a painting or whatever. and like has been said, the big ceremony and everyone wearing his jersey. That's McD & Rocky's doing.

Blackhawkswincup 03-10-2013 03:01 PM

Either way the reality is that the Hawks cap is not a problem going forward

This summer moves will be made (Olesz + Monty and maybe Frolik) and then we let Bolland walk along with possibly Hammer (More likely keep Hammer then give Bolland another contract)

Longterm with our depth in system it wont be hard to keep an affordable foundation of cheap/affordable role players to support core

CPHawksFan 03-10-2013 03:34 PM

Hopefully Hoss is able to play for at least a few more years at a high level to reduce the cap savings penalty once he retires.

Coldplay 03-10-2013 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup (Post 61377513)
Either way the reality is that the Hawks cap is not a problem going forward

This summer moves will be made (Olesz + Monty and maybe Frolik) and then we let Bolland walk along with possibly Hammer (More likely keep Hammer then give Bolland another contract)

Longterm with our depth in system it wont be hard to keep an affordable foundation of cheap/affordable role players to support core

It will become a problem if the cap penalty on Hossa hits if he retires at, say, age 38 or 39 and you're stuck with it for 4 years. No team could swallow that and move on because of a cheap supporting core, is what I'm saying.

You don't agree?

Blackhawkswincup 03-10-2013 03:43 PM

Hawks always have option of buying him out (Non compliance) in longterm

As his performance declines a conventional buyout is solution instead of him retiring and leaving team with cap mess

zytz 03-10-2013 04:31 PM

He's a potential target for a buyout, but Im going to caveat it- the only way I think it happens is if Hossa's game starts to decline in a big way, and sooner rather than later, and that he decides to hang up the skates rather than be an old an slow player that's a detriment to the team.

Honestly not sure if we will even buy out Olesz since he expires so soon. I could definitely see the organization hanging on to its amnesty buyout just in case we need to use it for one of Hossa or Keith a few years down the line.

Edit: Also assuming that we aren't able to stick him on IR for some flimsy reason.

Illinihockey 03-10-2013 04:36 PM

Or they could just pull what the B's did with Tim Thomas

Tayvaan 03-10-2013 04:40 PM

Could we buy him out then immediately resign him to a more palatable contract?

HawksFan74 03-10-2013 04:43 PM

Hossa will probably stop playing at some point due to a concussion, that's the way I see it playing out. He will be on long term injury.

HawksFan74 03-10-2013 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zytz (Post 61381943)
He's a potential target for a buyout, but Im going to caveat it- the only way I think it happens is if Hossa's game starts to decline in a big way, and sooner rather than later, and that he decides to hang up the skates rather than be an old an slow player that's a detriment to the team.

Honestly not sure if we will even buy out Olesz since he expires so soon. I could definitely see the organization hanging on to its amnesty buyout just in case we need to use it for one of Hossa or Keith a few years down the line.

Edit: Also assuming that we aren't able to stick him on IR for some flimsy reason.

I thought the buyouts were only for the next two seasons.

TorMenT 03-10-2013 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawksFan74 (Post 61382565)
I thought the buyouts were only for the next two seasons.

You are correct.

ReLyT 03-10-2013 05:31 PM

He will "Pronger Retire" later on in his career. Will be on LTIR from whenever he decides to stop to the end of the contract.


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