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-   -   What's the point of having an enforcer who doesn't enforce? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1373257)

SabresFanInLA 03-11-2013 02:11 PM

What's the point of having an enforcer who doesn't enforce?
 
Last night's game in Philly was, for me, the worst yet in a season filled with demoralizing stinkers. Not only did we not show up for the first period, but we showed zero character.

Ennis took a bad hit and wound up with a new forehead vagina. He did turn a bit, but still, enough for Simmonds to have to answer. And not just by beating Mike Weber's face in.

Why is John Scott in the lineup if not to make the other team pay for hurting our stars?

If I'm Rolston, I tell Big John to go out there and beat the ever living $hit out of Simmonds. I don't CARE if he doesn't drop his gloves. Punch him in the face 10 times anyway! And if you can't get your paws on Simmonds, then beat the crap out of Giroux or Briere. Guys don't want to fight you? Sucks for them. Attack them anyway! Damn the suspension, we can survive without you for a few games. And if you get fined, I'll cover it. But the league needs to know you can't run our guys and get away with it. Which Simmonds did.

Scott was on the ice for a shift with Simmonds later in the game and never challenged him. I don't get it. Kaleta, Ott, Weber, those guys get in your face if you do something they don't like. Scott ONLY has staged fights against other enforcers. To me, that's pointless. Target the guy who made the dirty hit, or take out someone equal to the player we lost. THAT would be enforcing.

And sidenote, why doesn't Foligno fight anymore? He's awesome at it. Foligno v Simmonds would've been a good battle. Foligno's not playing with any passion right now.

SackTastic 03-11-2013 02:13 PM

Need to have a willing partner. Jumping guys and getting suspended is just plain dumb.

Blame the instigator rule.

SabresFanInLA 03-11-2013 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackTastic (Post 61446761)
Need to have a willing partner. Jumping guys and getting suspended is just plain dumb.

Blame the instigator rule.

With respect, I disagree. I'll take the penalty and a Scott suspension over p*ssing out like we did last night. I think that's much better for the team, and for the future health of our skilled guys.

SackTastic 03-11-2013 02:29 PM

Fair enough, from your perspective.

If I'm John Scott, I'm not going to go out of my way to do anything to get suspended. The team cannot repay me for the fine, and repeated suspensions label you a repeat offender, which gives you larger suspensions, and larger fines.

I hate to sound like an old fuddy duddy, but in years past the game was, to an extent, cleaner, because if you cheap shotted a skill player, what you WANT to happen would have happened. Unfortunately, the instigator rule has all but eliminated that sort of response.

imyourhuckleberry 03-11-2013 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SabresFanInLA (Post 61446645)
Last night's game in Philly was, for me, the worst yet in a season filled with demoralizing stinkers. Not only did we not show up for the first period, but we showed zero character.

Ennis took a bad hit and wound up with a new forehead vagina. He did turn a bit, but still, enough for Simmonds to have to answer. And not just by beating Mike Weber's face in.

Why is John Scott in the lineup if not to make the other team pay for hurting our stars?

If I'm Rolston, I tell Big John to go out there and beat the ever living $hit out of Simmonds. I don't CARE if he doesn't drop his gloves. Punch him in the face 10 times anyway! And if you can't get your paws on Simmonds, then beat the crap out of Giroux or Briere. Guys don't want to fight you? Sucks for them. Attack them anyway! Damn the suspension, we can survive without you for a few games. And if you get fined, I'll cover it. But the league needs to know you can't run our guys and get away with it. Which Simmonds did.

Scott was on the ice for a shift with Simmonds later in the game and never challenged him. I don't get it. Kaleta, Ott, Weber, those guys get in your face if you do something they don't like. Scott ONLY has staged fights against other enforcers. To me, that's pointless. Target the guy who made the dirty hit, or take out someone equal to the player we lost. THAT would be enforcing.

And sidenote, why doesn't Foligno fight anymore? He's awesome at it. Foligno v Simmonds would've been a good battle. Foligno's not playing with any passion right now.

I couldn't agree with you more.

I think Rolston is preaching "composure" but meanwhile we have turned back into a soft team overnight. This is exactly why I don't like smaller forwards like Gerbe on this team.

Foligno needs to be tougher. He's the biggest whimp on the team right now in my opinon. Plays like a Mike Grier who I couldnt stand. Slow skating, slow body checks, doesnt fight....why are you here Marcus?!?!

Royisgone 03-11-2013 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SabresFanInLA (Post 61446981)
With respect, I disagree. I'll take the penalty and a Scott suspension over p*ssing out like we did last night. I think that's much better for the team, and for the future health of our skilled guys.

I agree with you. No doubt the dreaded instigator rule plays a role here, but that should not have been a factor last night in my opinion.

I am thinking of the Ottawa incident from some years ago when Neil cheap-shotted Drury. Peters, Mair, Kaleta went on the ice and Mair made a bee-line for Spezza I believe and just started punching him in the head--with about 3 Senators hanging on him while he continued to try and throw punches.

One of the most beautiful things I have ever seen in a Sabres game.

I don't recall Adam mailing out invitations to dance partners or waiting around to see if Spezza wanted to dance. He was too busy punching him in the head to care about any of that.

I was surprised we never got payback last night and thought it was a disgrace.

But then this team is a disgrace, so I shouldn't have been surprised.

Not sure what was up with Scott specifically last night. After he came back from his misconduct, he had a chance and didn't go for it.

Eichel 9 03-11-2013 02:37 PM

Well, according to some posters, teams are less likely to mess with us if Scott is in the lineup :laugh:

That's a total farce by the way, Philly looked really scared of big John Scott last night... :sarcasm:

Pure enforcers are completely useless nowadays, they just take the roster spot of someone that could actually contribute to the team instead of seeing the ice for 3 minutes.

Scott is a good guy, I like him as a person, but he is useless.

SabresFanInLA 03-11-2013 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackTastic (Post 61447655)
If I'm John Scott, I'm not going to go out of my way to do anything to get suspended. The team cannot repay me for the fine, and repeated suspensions label you a repeat offender, which gives you larger suspensions, and larger fines.

You're right, and I think that's precisely why Scott doesn't jump guys (though again, if I'm the coach, I order him to and pay him out of my own pocket if he gets fined, that's how important it is to set the precedent).

Frankly, that's not the type of player I care to have on my team. That's not a not team-first mentality. I know, that's easy for me to say, the guy has a family to support, a future to plan for, etc.

But if I'm employing someone as an Enforcer? I want someone who is insane. Who scares people. Someone who will flip his $hit and make you hurt if you do something he doesn't like, and to hell with the consequences. Someone who bleeds blue and gold and would do anything to help the team.

Someone like a Scott sized Kaleta. Hey I can dream.

AlexanderMogilny89 03-11-2013 03:03 PM

This team is a disgrace because of the man who put it together. JMO. These players are just to weak. Darcy has to go like 3 yrs ago.

tsujimoto74 03-11-2013 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imyourhuckleberry (Post 61447659)
I couldn't agree with you more.

I think Rolston is preaching "composure" but meanwhile we have turned back into a soft team overnight. This is exactly why I don't like smaller forwards like Gerbe on this team.

Foligno needs to be tougher. He's the biggest whimp on the team right now in my opinon. Plays like a Mike Grier who I couldnt stand. Slow skating, slow body checks, doesnt fight....why are you here Marcus?!?!

Gerbe and Ennis have looked like the only players willing to stick up for themselves in the last few games. If only some of our bigger players showed half as much heart...

AlexanderMogilny89 03-11-2013 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 (Post 61449577)
Gerbe and Ennis have looked like the only players willing to stick up for themselves in the last few games. If only some of our bigger players showed half as much heart...

Stafford and his contract are a disgrace also. he has played 26 games and has 2 goals, 7 assists, 9 points and is a minus -7.

MacOfNiagara 03-11-2013 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imyourhuckleberry (Post 61447659)
I couldn't agree with you more.

I think Rolston is preaching "composure" but meanwhile we have turned back into a soft team overnight. This is exactly why I don't like smaller forwards like Gerbe on this team.

Foligno needs to be tougher. He's the biggest whimp on the team right now in my opinon. Plays like a Mike Grier who I couldnt stand. Slow skating, slow body checks, doesnt fight....why are you here Marcus?!?!

This has been my feeling. IMO Rolston has a very timid, quiet demeanor. I think there is a benefit to this in that players don't like being yelled at all the time (a common criticism of Ruff). But, I think it lends itself to a passive team.

It is certainly debatable as to which approach is better, but if Ruff was behind the bench that game ends more like the infamous Ottawa game. During the intermission Rolston (when asked about the rough play / hits / penalties) stated that they needed to stay away from that stuff.

Close game so you can argue that was the right approach, but IMO that is more his general style to coaching (passive, thinking man's game)

Squantosawuss 03-11-2013 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackTastic (Post 61446761)
Need to have a willing partner. Jumping guys and getting suspended is just plain dumb.

Blame the instigator rule.

...or civilized society.

Squantosawuss 03-11-2013 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royisgone (Post 61447757)
I am thinking of the Ottawa incident from some years ago when Neil cheap-shotted Drury. Peters, Mair, Kaleta went on the ice and Mair made a bee-line for Spezza I believe and just started punching him in the head--with about 3 Senators hanging on him while he continued to try and throw punches.

One of the most beautiful things I have ever seen in a Sabres game.

Seeing a skilled player like Spezza getting punched repeatedly in the head was "one of the most beautiful things" you've ever seen in a Sabre's game? Really?

Me? I like hockey. Never got a rise out of seeing guys act like knuckle-dragging animals. It's just idiotic and uninteresting.

Royisgone 03-11-2013 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squantosawuss (Post 61465035)
Seeing a skilled player like Spezza getting punched repeatedly in the head was "one of the most beautiful things" you've ever seen in a Sabre's game? Really?

Me? I like hockey. Never got a rise out of seeing guys act like knuckle-dragging animals. It's just idiotic and uninteresting.

To each their own.

The excitement and energy of the "don't F with our captain" incident remains a highlight in my 30+ years of watching Sabres hockey.

Hockey without confrontation and physicality is unwatchable in my opinion.

VaporTrail 03-11-2013 07:58 PM

would have loved to seen us go after simmonds or whoever for that matter...send a message, and issue some beat downs...Part of the problem I think is that Rolston is vying for an NHL head coaching job next year.....I think he would rather win, than get retribution....I agree, it sucks, would love to see Scott go after whoever really, and just start tossing them....

I'm with ya on the Spezza thing too....Was awesome to go after him....

funkymag77 03-11-2013 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squantosawuss (Post 61465035)
Seeing a skilled player like Spezza getting punched repeatedly in the head was "one of the most beautiful things" you've ever seen in a Sabre's game? Really?

Me? I like hockey. Never got a rise out of seeing guys act like knuckle-dragging animals. It's just idiotic and uninteresting.


Get off your high horse, great rivalries are forged with blood, sweat and tears. Do I want to see someone get jumped for no reason or after a clean play? Absolutely not, but if someone crosses the line at some point I hope there are players out there to make sure he and the rest of his team knows it. It's more about respect then anything.

slip 03-11-2013 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royisgone (Post 61465845)
To each their own.

The excitement and energy of the "don't F with our captain" incident remains a highlight in my 30+ years of watching Sabres hockey.

Hockey without confrontation and physicality is unwatchable in my opinion.


Squantosawuss 03-11-2013 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkymag77 (Post 61470401)
Get off your high horse, great rivalries are forged with blood, sweat and tears. Do I want to see someone get jumped for no reason or after a clean play? Absolutely not, but if someone crosses the line at some point I hope there are players out there to make sure he and the rest of his team knows it. It's more about respect then anything.

If you think it's being on "a high horse" to think it's stupid to attack and punch in the head repeatedly, a skilled player who did nothing to your team, you're part of the problem.

And you talk about "respect" with that mentality? :laugh:

That reminds me of the way gangbangers in the hood talk about respect. Total perversion of the word.

Squantosawuss 03-11-2013 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royisgone (Post 61465845)
To each their own.

The excitement and energy of the "don't F with our captain" incident remains a highlight in my 30+ years of watching Sabres hockey.

Hockey without confrontation and physicality is unwatchable in my opinion.

Confrontation and physicality is one thing, but brutalizing other players, particularly ones that didn't do anything to your team, is ridiculous and indefensible.

Beerz 03-11-2013 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squantosawuss (Post 61473253)
Confrontation and physicality is one thing, but brutalizing other players, particularly ones that didn't do anything to your team, is ridiculous and indefensible.

In your opinion.

Squantosawuss 03-11-2013 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beerz (Post 61473781)
In your opinion.

We are nothing BUT opinions on here.

Push Dr Tracksuit 03-11-2013 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squantosawuss (Post 61472957)
If you think it's being on "a high horse" to think it's stupid to attack and punch in the head repeatedly, a skilled player who did nothing to your team, you're part of the problem.

And you talk about "respect" with that mentality? :laugh:

That reminds me of the way gangbangers in the hood talk about respect. Total perversion of the word.

since you missed his point entirely he wasn't proud of Mair punching the guy he was proud Mair told the rules to F off and stood up for his teammate, it's cool scum our players and our fans will Boo when we fight back


My turn to say it, Hockey Heaven baby

La Cosa Nostra 03-11-2013 10:24 PM

Yeah John Scott shouldn't have done anything or else Philly would have gotten way too many undeserved pps! Oh wait, they did AND they cheap shotted our small guys twice. Scott should have just jumped Giroux. Such a joke we have a "dirty" rep because of Ott and Kaleta yet we don't ever get revenge. Guess these ******* forgot about the big piece of **** Mike Richards boarding Connolly from behind last time these scrubs were in the playoffs. Flyers are a low class organization and should be dealt with properly, by scraping their faces off your knuckles.

ZZamboni 03-11-2013 10:32 PM

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll...ohdno1_500.gif


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