HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Detroit Red Wings (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=34)
-   -   A question about Datsyuk (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1376073)

meenamjah 03-14-2013 04:20 PM

A question about Datsyuk
 
It's something I wonder about, every time I see Datsyuk play. Why hasn't he won a scoring title? I find it inexplicable. He's got such sick skills.

Is he just too focused on defense, or perhaps not relentless at offense? Can anyone shed some light on this?

CloneHakanPlease* 03-14-2013 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meenamjah (Post 61649373)
It's something I wonder about, every time I see Datsyuk play. Why hasn't he won a scoring title? I find it inexplicable. He's got such sick skills.

Is he just too focused on defense, or perhaps not relentless at offense? Can anyone shed some light on this?

In his offensive prime he played a solid two way game which limited his scoring. Also during his offensive peak there were two obscure guys in Pittsburgh and Washington

Cursed Lemon 03-14-2013 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meenamjah (Post 61649373)
It's something I wonder about, every time I see Datsyuk play. Why hasn't he won a scoring title? I find it inexplicable. He's got such sick skills.

Is he just too focused on defense, or perhaps not relentless at offense? Can anyone shed some light on this?

Datsyuk is not a balls-out offensive player, he accepted the responsibility of playing defensively immediately when our talent began to thin out a few years after the 2002 Cup. Our team also hasn't been as good since 08 - something else that has limited his point production.

sully61 03-14-2013 05:03 PM

He's not selfish enough to use his wicked shot. Most underrated shot in the league.

GT500x 03-14-2013 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meenamjah (Post 61649373)
It's something I wonder about, every time I see Datsyuk play. Why hasn't he won a scoring title? I find it inexplicable. He's got such sick skills.

Is he just too focused on defense, or perhaps not relentless at offense? Can anyone shed some light on this?

Datsyuk makes a living by picking pockets, not picking cherries.

The Zetterberg Era 03-14-2013 05:17 PM

Watch how high Datsyuk hangs out in the zone. It isn't a coincidence that he was most aggressive with Zetterberg and Hossa. Guys he trusted to cover if he wandered forward. I really think he will push over 100 in the east even at 35, easier conference to score in.

His shot has also always been a little hit or miss, he can try to be to precise with it from time to time.

His peak offensive years came while Crosby was still healthy and Ovie was still a megastar. He cares a little more about the finer points of the game it is why he still has more rings than those guys and a player like Chara and all the polls absolutely adore him even over some of the more glamour guys in the league.

I do think his wrist now is permanently damaged, he just cannot play for a full season without that cropping up, at some point in each of the last three seasons he couldn't take draws or saw a huge drop off indicating something was wrong. Part of why I think Babcock was trying so hard to put him on the wing to start the year.

InjuredChoker 03-14-2013 05:19 PM

Not selfish enough.

Focuses too much on D.

Not used primarily in an offensive role.

Physical abilities aren't elite. Great but not elite, reg. strength, speed and size combo.

Often less than optimal linemates.

InjuredChoker 03-14-2013 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era (Post 61651727)
Watch how high Datsyuk hangs out in the zone. It isn't a coincidence that he was most aggressive with Zetterberg and Hossa. Guys he trusted to cover if he wandered forward. I really think he will push over 100 in the east even at 35, easier conference to score in.

His shot has also always been a little hit or miss, he can try to be to precise with it from time to time.

His peak offensive years came while Crosby was still healthy and Ovie was still a megastar. He cares a little more about the finer points of the game it is why he still has more rings than those guys and a player like Chara and all the polls absolutely adore him even over some of the more glamour guys in the league.

... With linemates such as??

I think you're underrating east a bit.

The Zetterberg Era 03-14-2013 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kemisti (Post 61651877)
... With linemates such as??

I think you're underrating east a bit.

Look at the league scoring leaders, the east plays a looser brand of hockey.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/statistics/pl...3/seasontype/2

Pretty big up there are guys like Ribiero and Voracek guys that struggled to get anywhere close to that in the west. I also think they will be on the PP more in that conference. Time will tell, but I expect them to either pay Filppula to the point he will be the second line center or they will bring in a Weiss freeing up the D and Z line.

Plus there is the factor of if this is the last hurrah Datsyuk seems like the type that will want to go out with a bang in terms of how hard he works and everything he puts in. Leave that last impression and show that it is his choice to go back to Russia and he is still at the top of his game. Along with the motivation of the Olympics I think there is a lot going towards a perfect storm. Some will depend on the off-season Holland can put together no doubt.

InjuredChoker 03-14-2013 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era (Post 61652431)
Look at the league scoring leaders, the east plays a looser brand of hockey.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/statistics/pl...3/seasontype/2

Pretty big up there are guys like Ribiero and Voracek guys that struggled to get anywhere close to that in the west. I also think they will be on the PP more in that conference. Time will tell, but I expect them to either pay Filppula to the point he will be the second line center or they will bring in a Weiss freeing up the D and Z line.

Plus there is the factor of if this is the last hurrah Datsyuk seems like the type that will want to go out with a bang in terms of how hard he works and everything he puts in. Leave that last impression and show that it is his choice to go back to Russia and he is still at the top of his game. Along with the motivation of the Olympics I think there is a lot going towards a perfect storm. Some will depend on the off-season Holland can put together no doubt.

East does play looser; but I don't think Detroit or Datsyuk will. Not that much he would score 100+ points imo. Yeah, it's possible but I don't think it will happen.

Voracek is better and in better position than what he was in Columbus.

It's also early into shortened season, Ribs for example has double the sh% that he's had for last 4 years.

He's been great offensively, no doubt. Too bad can't play D and that's not good mix as Ovy has been on he's line. But now they have mixed it up, OV is with Bäcks tonight.

RedWinger10 03-14-2013 06:13 PM

He's an unselfish player who puts the needs of his team and teammates ahead if his own stats. He is known for passing the puck if he thinks it will lead to a better opportunity rather than going for a shot himself even though he is an incredible shooter. He's a team player and one of the nicest most unselfish players in the NHL. Had he been a little more selfish with the puck he may have captured several scoring titles.

Brick Top 03-14-2013 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kemisti (Post 61652815)
East does play looser; but I don't think Detroit or Datsyuk will. Not that much he would score 100+ points imo. Yeah, it's possible but I don't think it will happen.

Voracek is better and in better position than what he was in Columbus.

I don't think there's any chance Pavel approaches 100 points next season, regardless of the pending last NHL season + Olympics in Russia combination. He last knocked on the 100 pt door back in 08/09, which was a while ago.

He's been getting dinged up the last few years, so I don't see him playing enough games to give him a shot at 100 pts anyway. And unless there's a dramatic shift in the top 6 lineup for next season (fingers crossed!), he once again won't have the talent around him to cash in on the chances he creates. And our defense isn't scoring nearly as much as they used to with #5 on the blueline. Oh, and he's still too unselfish at times for his own good, passing up shot opportunities to try to complete the perfect pass (and while most of those passes do get to the intended targets, the lack of talent around him isn't getting him the assists).

So yeah, he'll do fine in the EC, but IMO he's not coming close to the century mark in points.

InGusWeTrust 03-15-2013 12:07 AM

I bet he winds up in the 80-90 point mark next season..unless he gets someone real to play with...not this Abdelkader/Cleary set up..Most coming on PP...just my guess though..

joe89 03-15-2013 06:09 AM

Remember he won the Selke both years he finished with 97 points. Would've been cool if he reached 100 once but those are some great peak years.

VM1138 03-15-2013 08:34 AM

Usually he or Zetterberg start tearing it up for a while, but then the team starts to go into one of their month-long slumps, which puts them way behind the other teams' top players.

If they played on a team like Pittsburgh, for instance, where they work hard every night, I think Datsyuk or Zetterberg would be tops in the league, too.

But Datsyuk is a pass-first kind of player who rarely plays with a finisher. That limits his point production.

BinCookin 03-15-2013 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meenamjah (Post 61649373)
It's something I wonder about, every time I see Datsyuk play. Why hasn't he won a scoring title? I find it inexplicable. He's got such sick skills.

Is he just too focused on defense, or perhaps not relentless at offense? Can anyone shed some light on this?

The main reason Datsyuk (And Zetterberg for that matter) do not score more is this:

They are used in all situations:

5on5
on the PP (but usually only 1/2 - 2/3 of the power play)
and on the PK.

By using our star players on the PK, their icetime where they could score is limited.


Does Sidney Crosby play on the PK?
Does Evgeni Malkin play on the PK?
Does Steven Stamkos play on the PK?
I know Ilya Kovalchuk does NOT play on the PK!

Some teams use players like Ovechkin and Kovalchuk for the full 2 min on their PP.

PP points are a big deal if you want to lead the league in scoring.

I would say Detroit's stars all score less, because they are all used in defensive roles as well.
This has made the team win more, even though many players stats have been reduced. Just ask Steve Yzerman about his production vs Bowman's system to make the Red Wings good (more defensive).

This is the primary reason these players score less.

I wish he would win the points race one year to just give him a little more "fame"
but honestly, If anyone can beat Crosby now... GJ.

joe89 03-15-2013 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BinCookin (Post 61721443)
I know Ilya Kovalchuk does NOT play on the PK!

Your point is valid, but Kovalchuk leads the league in shorthanded goals with four. Kovy is playing everything but offensive minutes only, he's out there all game long. Which also fits your example because Kovy is wasting a lot of energy playing defense too, so he's "only" scoring at around a point per game.

BinCookin 03-15-2013 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe89 (Post 61721605)
Your point is valid, but Kovalchuk leads the league in shorthanded goals with four. Kovy is playing everything but offensive minutes only, he's out there all game long.

mmmm... clearly I don't watch the Devils enough. Call me educated. GJ Kovy. Always thought he was much better than people give him credit for.

Do the other players i mentioned play on the Pk?

I have not checked before.

The Zetterberg Era 03-15-2013 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe89 (Post 61721605)
Your point is valid, but Kovalchuk leads the league in shorthanded goals with four. Kovy is playing everything but offensive minutes only, he's out there all game long. Which also fits your example because Kovy is wasting a lot of energy playing defense too, so he's "only" scoring at around a point per game.

You're correct that Kovy PKs and is pretty good at it. But the better point would be even as a winger he generally leads forwards in ice time if I remember right.

Zetterberg and Datsyuk get limited at some point, even earlier this season when they were doing heavy lifting they hit 22 minutes as the high points really. Less than a lot of the other big boys get.

Crosby does PK for the record, but kind of like Datsyuk in the regular season in that he takes draws and gets off.

InjuredChoker 03-15-2013 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BinCookin (Post 61721695)
mmmm... clearly I don't watch the Devils enough. Call me educated. GJ Kovy. Always thought he was much better than people give him credit for.

Do the other players i mentioned play on the Pk?

I have not checked before.

Stamkos does play little on the pk, little under 1 min/game.

Kovy played little over 1 min last year and 1:42 this year. Kovy also had more SH goals for than opponent had PP goals when Kovy was on pk.

Pavels Dog 03-15-2013 05:23 PM

Part of it is his personality really. He's too humble and 'nice' to put up 5 points against bad teams, to go after a hat-trick when the score is 5-0, or to put his own success ahead of his team's.

Guys like Crosby, Stamkos or Ovie won't let up when they're up by a couple of goals. They'll keep piling it on which is why you see Sid put up 5-6 points in blowout wins regularly. Pavel almost never has more than 2-3 points in a game. And at the end of seasons when the Wings have been long since a lock to make the playoffs, he'll take it easy instead of going all out for points.

Sentinel 03-15-2013 05:29 PM

You may wanna check your facts before you post in CAPS.

meenamjah 03-15-2013 11:12 PM

It sure would have been fun to see him play in an offensive system.

Atas2000 03-15-2013 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meenamjah (Post 61744305)
It sure would have been fun to see him play in an offensive system.

But it is. On the national team.


GoAwayDanCleary 03-16-2013 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era (Post 61723089)
You're correct that Kovy PKs and is pretty good at it. But the better point would be even as a winger he generally leads forwards in ice time if I remember right.

Zetterberg and Datsyuk get limited at some point, even earlier this season when they were doing heavy lifting they hit 22 minutes as the high points really. Less than a lot of the other big boys get.

Crosby does PK for the record, but kind of like Datsyuk in the regular season in that he takes draws and gets off.

Kovalchuck averages 25:36 TOI/G, first in the league for forwards (second is Stamkos at 22:09 - more than 3 minutes less than Kovy).


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:02 PM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.