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-   -   We need better goalie (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1376513)

lilidk 03-15-2013 01:34 AM

We need better goalie
 
Problem with this team in the net. Jimmy probably has career worst season . Team fill not comfortable with backups. Red Wings needs to trade for proven keeper and split his time with Howard

RedWinger10 03-15-2013 01:42 AM

Hate to say it but apparently they are working on a $5M long term deal with Howard.

14ari13 03-15-2013 02:08 AM

Goaltending has cost us 2-5 points so far this season, but the Wings will not trade for a goalie.

WesNichols14 03-15-2013 02:24 AM

he hasn't been that bad. he's had bad games yes but he's also had a few great games. to start the year the team played no D his numbers fell. they started to play D again and he's looked good most nights great a few brilliant once or twice and horrible once or twice. its called being a middle of the league goalie.
that being said I hate the thought of him being locked up long term for a big cap hit. pick one or the other bro.

Especially with Petr Mrazek playing incredable down in Grand Rapids right now
last 5 Games, 2.01 GAA, .931 Save%, 136/146

so lets assume Mrazek needs two more years in the AHL (he doesn't) Howard gets his 6-7 year deal. that means at minimum we have 4-5 years with both Howard and Mrazek in net. first year Mrazek as a full time backup fine second year part time backup really challenging for starting spot, third year Howard is a burden because of his cap hit.
A 4 year deal is what he deserves even if its at 5.5 million it gives us an out once he's past his prime and Mrazek is ready to be a full time starter.

also this just popped into head, what if Paterson pans out? his stats aren't great but he is the only bright spot on his team and stands on his head most of the time. in 3 years he will be 2 years into Grand Rapids. being about ready to play a part time backup role in Detroit

I'm rambling at this point. in short. the team doesn't need better goal tending it was one bad game, the rumored extension he's getting is a bad move and I wonder if he said long term or no deal. Mrazek will be in Detroit full time sooner than expected. and Paterson could be the straw on Howard's back.

lilidk 03-15-2013 04:58 AM

Isnít Dats play defense first because goaltending sucks. Great saves makes teammates play better game and they can play open hockey, more fun for fans
:p:

joe89 03-15-2013 05:40 AM

Jimmy was inconsistent to start the year but has turned it around good. He ranks top10 in all the work horse categories and the output categories are trending towards top10 too.

His starts last three weeks(4-1-2):
1.000
.857
.931
.970
.973
1.000
.905

Mantha Poodoo 03-15-2013 05:42 AM

Goaltending isn't this team's issue. Vanilla save % is rather worthless. Sure, Howie lets in the occasional softie--he's not an elite goalie--but he's definitely starting material. The problem is there's no team that can bail their goalie after softies at the moment, and meanwhile when the goalie is playing well, the Wings are gift-wrapping their opponents great scoring chances with awful turnovers.

lkleung007 03-15-2013 05:44 AM

I tend to agree with you...Howard has played real well only in a handful of games that he has started this year...the rest including his last game against Columbus has not been anything special. When our defensemen and forwards don't constantly give up the puck in "danger areas" on the ice...our goalies do pretty well at stopping the shots...just look at our first game against the Blues and the last game against the Flames...team was brutal!!

I know we are working on a long term deal with Howard but it could come back to haunt the team if the cost is more than 4 million against the cap.

Unfortunately, with Gustavsson's injury we have not been able to see what we have in Howard's backup...3 games is hardly enough for a fair assessment...I think we need at least 10 starts to know if Gustavsson deserves more starts and can actually "push" Howard for the #1 spot. But with the shortened season and us needing every point, I doubt Babcock is willing to "experiment" with our lineup. Remember how poor Howard played at the beginning of the year...but better after starting more than 10-15 games.

Shadywing19 03-15-2013 07:39 AM

Our offense and defense has cost us many more points this year than goaltending. On the list off issues we have. Goaltending is dead last

JPE123 03-15-2013 07:47 AM

I think Howard is a decent goalie. Backup is clearly a problem. Mrazek should be up next year. Would not give Howard more than 4 year contract

Hendricks433 03-15-2013 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPE123 (Post 61700643)
I think Howard is a decent goalie. Backup is clearly a problem. Mrazek should be up next year. Would not give Howard more than 4 year contract

Gustavson(sp?) has only started a couple games and was left out to dry in the 3rd period vs Calgary. They also played like crap and scored 9 goals when he played Columbus.

ricky0034 03-15-2013 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wesnichols14 (Post 61697117)
he hasn't been that bad. he's had bad games yes but he's also had a few great games. to start the year the team played no D his numbers fell. they started to play D again and he's looked good most nights great a few brilliant once or twice and horrible once or twice. its called being a middle of the league goalie.
that being said I hate the thought of him being locked up long term for a big cap hit. pick one or the other bro.

Especially with Petr Mrazek playing incredable down in Grand Rapids right now
last 5 Games, 2.01 GAA, .931 Save%, 136/146

so lets assume Mrazek needs two more years in the AHL (he doesn't) Howard gets his 6-7 year deal. that means at minimum we have 4-5 years with both Howard and Mrazek in net. first year Mrazek as a full time backup fine second year part time backup really challenging for starting spot, third year Howard is a burden because of his cap hit.
A 4 year deal is what he deserves even if its at 5.5 million it gives us an out once he's past his prime and Mrazek is ready to be a full time starter.

also this just popped into head, what if Paterson pans out? his stats aren't great but he is the only bright spot on his team and stands on his head most of the time. in 3 years he will be 2 years into Grand Rapids. being about ready to play a part time backup role in Detroit

I'm rambling at this point. in short. the team doesn't need better goal tending it was one bad game, the rumored extension he's getting is a bad move and I wonder if he said long term or no deal. Mrazek will be in Detroit full time sooner than expected. and Paterson could be the straw on Howard's back.

you realize trading goaltenders is a thing that is allowed right?

if Mrazek pans out and we still have Howard signed for a few more years he'd actually be a decently valuable trading ship if he's still playing well

as long as the Wings don't do something stupid like give Howard a NTC on his long term deal too the situation you describe could actually be a good thing

and make no mistake,these are Goalie prospects you're talking about,at this point it's still far from guaranteed that Mrazek will ever be as good as Howard let alone better

VM1138 03-15-2013 08:29 AM

I don't recall Howard losing us any games this season. He's always solid and far less frustrating than Osgood was at times. I don't like the idea of a long-term contract, but if some of you would rather he walk, let me ask you a really basic question:

Who is available who is better? We are at a point in the NHL where almost all of the goalies are on par with each other. No one really needs to trade their goalies, so you're looking at letting him walk for nothing right now.

I like Mrazek, too, but he's still a prospect. You don't dump a reliable workhorse because you think some kid is going to be elite his first season in the league.

Hendricks433 03-15-2013 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricky0034 (Post 61701661)
you realize trading goaltenders is a thing that is allowed right?

Tell that to Vancouver. 6-7 years for Howard is ridiculous.

Dynheart 03-15-2013 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VM1138 (Post 61701757)
I don't recall Howard losing us any games this season. He's always solid and far less frustrating than Osgood was at times. I don't like the idea of a long-term contract, but if some of you would rather he walk, let me ask you a really basic question:

Who is available who is better? We are at a point in the NHL where almost all of the goalies are on par with each other. No one really needs to trade their goalies, so you're looking at letting him walk for nothing right now.

I like Mrazek, too, but he's still a prospect. You don't dump a reliable workhorse because you think some kid is going to be elite his first season in the league.

I agree. He's either just there (Blue Jacket games), or he dominates. He hardly loses us games. His last two bad outings I can remember were the Blues game...team effort...Montreal last season. Other than those two? He's a mixture of just being there. To Who is that being the mask?

Other than that? I really think people for get that the defense really is bad on this team. I mean BAD (Has been since '09..and it's just getting worse each year). He's either stealing games, or giving the team a chance to win by being solid...AKA just making the saves AKA being ordinary. Stealing games for this team at this point is a miracle. I think people need to realize that. But they don't. Howard is doing a fine job.

I also don't think Howard hit his peak yet.

P U L L H A R D 03-15-2013 11:31 AM

Howard is a fine goalie, good enough to get the job done at the very least. We need better forwards and defence.

Xvash2 03-15-2013 11:38 AM

Howard is the best starting goalie this team has had since Hasek. And with Mrazek in the pipes, we'll be fine for a long, long while.

lkleung007 03-15-2013 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xvash2 (Post 61708967)
Howard is the best starting goalie this team has had since Hasek. And with Mrazek in the pipes, we'll be fine for a long, long while.

I am not sold on Mrazek yet...neither is Holland or he wouldn't be giving Howard $5 million for 5-6 yrs. The kid is still really young and need a couple of more years in the AHL. Stats are nice in the AHL but I don't put much value in them...just look at Gustavsson's stats in the AHL (GAA around 1.50 and Save % of 0.930).

Gustavsson is more than a capable backup...remember the monster was out for over a month and is just getting some time between the pipes...I'll rate the monster when he has had 10 or more starts. The game against the Flames was not great but it could have been worse with some of the opportunities we gave them...including the penalty shot.

Kyleftlx 03-15-2013 01:22 PM

Goaltenders are a hot commodity. Teams are always looking for a good starting goaltender. If Howard can EARN his 5 million dollar contract (he has to sign it first, remember guys!), and Mrazek continues his upward trend through our prospect ranks, then Detroit will have a really solid goaltender dilemma on their hands. Two hot goalies, one locked up long term and one being really young, that could be huge for Detroit. Vancouver doesn't seem to be having trouble with the Luongo/Schneider issue, although Howard isn't as good as Luongo, and if Tim Thomas can fetch a good draft pick by not even playing, Howard would be able to move for a decent package.

I think the goaltending isn't the issue. Howard is a good goaltender. He's not elite, and he isn't going to put the team on his back, but he's worth 4-5 million dollars. Maybe not for 6-7 years, but that's why Holland will have to be smart about it.

If Howard gets a NMC/NTC to go with his 7 year deal, THAT is where you start to worry.

BinCookin 03-15-2013 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14ari13 (Post 61696833)
Goaltending has cost us 2-5 points so far this season, but the Wings will not trade for a goalie.

I would argue goaltending has EARNED us somewhere between 2-5 pts this season.

Joe put up his stats.

Howard is good.

But whether or not you agree is pretty pointless...

We are stuck with Howard and Mrazek for the next 5 years, because we just don't have the assets to trade for MORE goaltending. Unless of course we take luongo for a draft pick or something. (P.S. Luongo will cost us Nyquist or Tatar or someone else we don't want to lose, maybe we can give them filppula... but IMO our team is weaker with Luongo and without filppula vs with filpulla and howard.

Howard is good enough as a starter. I rarely blame losses on him. Much easier to say goaltending is not our biggest problem right now.

(Weak defense)
(Weak offense)

Jimbo7200 03-15-2013 02:21 PM

I'd rather have Tim Thomas for 1-2 years than Jimmy Howard for 6-7.

Vladdy84 03-15-2013 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbo7200 (Post 61717531)
I'd rather have Tim Thomas for 1-2 years than Jimmy Howard for 6-7.

Hell yeah, Timmy for 2 years at 2 million! Then Peter Peter Puck Eater takes over.

WesNichols14 03-15-2013 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricky0034 (Post 61701661)
and make no mistake,these are Goalie prospects you're talking about,at this point it's still far from guaranteed that Mrazek will ever be as good as Howard let alone better

Howard played for 4 years in Grand Rapids, from the time he was 21 til he was 25. during the time his save % hovered around .912 and his GAA around 2.65.
Petr Mrazek, in his 1st year starting at age 20 has his stats currently at .920 Save % and 2.24 GAA. from a stats stand point comparing the too at a similar stage in their careers Mrazek is better. not that being said I didn't watch Howard in GR, I do watch Mrazek and he is great. his physical tools are there and even better than that he a the perfect goalie mind set.

you are correct there are no guarantees that Mrazek will be a good or better than Howard, but there is evidence that supports my prediction that he will be better than Howard. and I really do worry that he is going to get an NMC.

BinCookin 03-15-2013 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wesnichols14 (Post 61719981)
Howard played for 4 years in Grand Rapids, from the time he was 21 til he was 25. during the time his save % hovered around .912 and his GAA around 2.65.
Petr Mrazek, in his 1st year starting at age 20 has his stats currently at .920 Save % and 2.24 GAA. from a stats stand point comparing the too at a similar stage in their careers Mrazek is better. not that being said I didn't watch Howard in GR, I do watch Mrazek and he is great. his physical tools are there and even better than that he a the perfect goalie mind set.

you are correct there are no guarantees that Mrazek will be a good or better than Howard, but there is evidence that supports my prediction that he will be better than Howard. and I really do worry that he is going to get an NMC.

Should I also imagine Mrazek is playing for a "stronger" GRG club than Howard did?
Goalies stats are not like baseball. They rely on the team, so if GRG are in first right now, and were a 3rd or 4th place team when howard was there... I would call the 0.08 difference in save% a wash.

TatarTangle 03-15-2013 03:22 PM

False. They need better everything.


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