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-   -   Are we in the midst of another epic second-half collapse this season? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1376555)

saffronleaf 03-15-2013 04:55 AM

Are we in the midst of another epic second-half collapse this season?
 
When I heard that this season was going to be shortened almost by half, I was hoping that we had a 50/50 chance of making the playoffs. Last season, we had a great first half and a horrendous second half. The season before that, we had a horrible first half and a great second half to the season. I was hoping that we would either get the good half or the bad half for the entire season, since this season is only half as long.

But it seems that my intuition was wrong. Are we repeating last year's epic collapse? The second half of this season has basically started with a four game losing streak. There seems to be no rhyme or reason, either. Oftentimes we find the Leafs playing well against good teams and playing poorly against poor teams, or vice-versa. But in the second half of this season, we seem to be losing indiscriminately.

I don't know if I can take another epic collapse, but it all seems so eerily similar. Those "what are the chances the Leafs will make the playoffs" threads had been pumping out similar numbers -- saying that the Leafs have 90%+ chance of making it. And then... now we're barely hanging on by a thread. Another couple losses and we'll be out of the playoffs.

Any thoughts?

Does this team just lack the killer instinct to put things away? I mean, we've seen them constantly give up leads within games -- failing to execute and put away games. Is that indicative of their capacity to hold onto season points leads?

I'm getting nervous.

darrylsittler27 03-15-2013 05:05 AM

The answer is yes.
 
The season is now over.All traces of the cancer known as Burke must be removed.Any moron can see the problem,so why dont they fix it? More firings are needed.

Center Ice Scrum 03-15-2013 05:05 AM

Yes, our team is mentally fragile. We need to get tougher in that department, starting with trading Kessel, Phaneuf, Bozak. :sarcasm:

darrylsittler27 03-15-2013 05:09 AM

I think it is obvious...
 
Phaneuff,Kessel are not cornerstone pieces.All traces of the cancer known as Burke must be removed.

Center Ice Scrum 03-15-2013 05:18 AM

In reality though, this collapse wouldn't be that bad. We could really use another superstar caliber player from the draft. Tanking will also force management to make some very tough moves such as trading away Kessel, Bozak, MacArthur, Grabovski, Liles, Kulemin, Gunnarsson. Not saying all will be traded but most should be traded for some current NHLers and prospects/picks. We also need to get a #2 defenseman on this team. Hell, at this point I'm willing to take Kabby back on the team. Phaneuf is being warn out from playing too much every night. We toss in 3rd pairing guys (Kostka, Holzer, Gunnarsson) out with him to eat up big minutes and it comes back to bite us in the ass night in night out.

Our 1st line was the responsible for giving up 2 late goals today. They've been haunted by terrible defense for 3-4-5-6-7 years now. Its getting ****ing frustrating to watch now. Find a defensive minded top line center. For those complaining about Stephen Weiss, he would be the most ideal #1 center for us. Guy can actually play more competently defensively than Bozo. Ditching Kessel for a bigger/ more physical scoring winger would be the most ideal scenario. This will make our top line less soft and since we don't have an all out gambler out on the ice, we'll have less turnovers and stupid scoring chances against us.

All in all, turn this into the pre-lockout devils for all I care. Trap the **** away, I honestly don't give a **** if they only manage to score 2 goals a game. AS LONG AS THEY WIN. I'm getting sick of watching Phil Kessel fly down the wing, attempt the same deak, take a crappy shot, just as much as I'm tired of our top line consistently getting caught in deep in the offensive zone, leading to prime scoring chances for the opposition. Time for a new top line, time for a new 2nd line center and winger.

OUT:
Bozak, Kessel, Grabo, Kulemin, MacArthur, Liles, Gunnarsson, Kostka

We've got many holes to fill in our lineup.

JVR - XXX - Lupul
Frattin - Kadri - XXX
XXX - XXX - Komarov
Orr - McClement - McLaren

Phaneuf - XXX
Gardiner - XXX
Franson - Fraser/ Holzer

So, we're short 6 players right now. Once we can manage to get competent players to fill those positions, we'll take off for good, and not worry about tanking half way through the ****ing season. ****

FlowNoMo 03-15-2013 05:33 AM

I expect us to break out of this sooner rather than later. Lupul coming back should help as well.

Pi 03-15-2013 05:34 AM

We still have far too many garbage players on the Leafs and players way above their heads (Bozak, Holzer etc).

This season (if wasted) is Carlyle's fault. He refused to make a change, benched Liles for a month, Gardiner is stuck in the AHL just like the puck is usually stuck in our zone when Liles isn't on the team.

Fire his stubborn ass if we don't make the playoffs.

I have zero confidence in this team right now. Winnipeg will come in and destroy them because they saw an opening and ran with it. We're going to be on the outside looking in, in about a weeks time.

Daisy Joy 03-15-2013 06:20 AM

Or, the answer is no, and we're finally having a losing streak that most of the teams in the NHL has had all season - it's just happening NOW (and it's reminiscent of last year).

I'm actually glad that this is happening, because it will show us three things:

A: what Carlyle is made of.
B: what Nonis will do (April 3rd)
C: what this team is made of.

Again, as I've been saying all the time, while I personally don't see while Liles and Komisarek (who were playing well), were sitting in the box for a month each, Carlyle flat out said it. (which makes me wonder, unless there's a trade or something) the defense that we're seeing now, is the defense we're going to have next year. And if Leaf Nation had it their way and Komisarek is bought out and Liles is bought out - they wouldn't be around next year to help out.

So he's playing the boys now. And yes they are making mistakes, etc. but get it out now, learn proper things now, so in an 82 + game season, they've already gotten 42+ games experience. they know what to expect.

now it's sucky because Gardiner is stuck in Marlie land. For most people it would be so obvious. Move Holzer or Kostka (esp. since he' a UFA) back down there, and bring him up, but there has to be a reason. (other than Carlyle is stubborn). that he's not being brought up. Some people brought up the 3 games left then he's subjected to waiver rule. I'd rather him play on the Marlies, than to just come up, and sit in the press box.

A: Carlyle keeps saying that we're losing the little things that made us great in the first half. Either this team doesn't know how to play a full season of hockey (as they tend to show in some games that they don't know how to play full period of hockey), and to me - that's not just the teams fault. That's coaching. And Carlyle said that. So clearly he needs to figure out what's going on, and make changes. (he made one by Sitting Kostka) and start hammering in the things that made us play "The Perfect Game."

B: Nonis. He's not really done anything to make this "his team" right now. and April 3rd will be interesting indeed. (but to be fair, it's not like a tonne of teams are doing anything right now so)....

C: I personally belief that the Leaf culture right now is different than it was last year. (ergo: i believe this is just a little slump and not the epic failure of last year), but this is the true test. The only true stinker game out of the 4 that they lost, was the one in Winnipeg (and they answered that game by playing really well last night). If they take the play (and keep playing well) then they'll win. But the goal tending needs to step up.

until the leafs are mathematically eliminated, i'm going to have faith that the Leafs will right themselves up and correct this.

SteveV* 03-15-2013 06:25 AM

I think we will be fine, but last night showed that Carlyle hasn't gone with our best lineup this year, Liles was SO much better than Kostka, as we already knew given he's a proven 600 game top four D in the NHL. Also true, Komi is a better D than Holzer, does same job with actually less boneheaded plays, yes Holzer is that bad. We've lost points because Carlyle stuck with crap D play for too long, and you could see the signs when we were winning.

hotpaws 03-15-2013 06:33 AM

We'll know after the next 3 games , Wpg/TB/Buff are all very winnable games .

bax 03-15-2013 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotpaws (Post 61699579)
We'll know after the next 3 games , Wpg/TB/Buff are all very winnable games .

I think this as well. All teams go through losing streaks but this needs to stopped at 4. They played too well for most of the night last night for me to think this is going to be a repeat of last year already.

drewski1988 03-15-2013 06:42 AM

I think this is exactly where we'll be for the remainder of the season. This was a borderline playoff team at best, and was predicted to do so.
The first half of the season was a great surprise, with a favorable schedule. The second half is much harder, and we'll see what this team truly has.

Lupul will return soon, so there goes playing Mclaren/Orr every night.

The honeymoon with the AHL players is over IMO. I don't expect to see much of Kostka anymore, Liles proved last night he should be in the lineup without a doubt. I fully expect Gardiner to be here very soon, and Holzer to be sent down. He's a good rookie dman that has made his share of mistakes. He'll be fine, just right now there are far better options.

Once Gardiner/Liles are back in their deserved spots and Lupul returns, then we'll be able to judge this lineup and where it belongs.

SteveV* 03-15-2013 06:49 AM

A big difference this year, we know have McC, Kom, JVR on the PK, no comparison to last.

blasted_Sabre 03-15-2013 06:55 AM

No. In last years collapse at no point did we play like last night. We deserved to win yesterday. Im confident we'll be back in the W column in the very near future

Fogelhund 03-15-2013 07:00 AM

The team D played very well last night, completely different than the previous seven games. Sure, there were some mistakes, but overall the first 53 minutes were nearly as perfect as they can be, against the number one scoring by far team in the league. The Crosby was Crosby, and his play lead to both goals against us. Fleury played great. I can't complain about this loss. If the team gets back to playing the way they did last night, we'll win more games than we'll lose. If they revert back to the seven games prior, we are toast. People get wrapped up with the win/loss, more than how we played.

TonsofPuppies* 03-15-2013 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogelhund (Post 61699869)
The team D played very well last night, completely different than the previous seven games. Sure, there were some mistakes, but overall the first 53 minutes were nearly as perfect as they can be, against the number one scoring by far team in the league. The Crosby was Crosby, and his play lead to both goals against us. Fleury played great. I can't complain about this loss. If the team gets back to playing the way they did last night, we'll win more games than we'll lose. If they revert back to the seven games prior, we are toast. People get wrapped up with the win/loss, more than how we played.

While I agree that if we play like we did for the first 53 minutes last night that we'll win more often than we lose, people probably focus on W/L because that's all that shows up in the standings, no?

gtforepro 03-15-2013 07:18 AM

The Boston loss wasn't a bad game, the shootout loss in Pittsburgh wasn't a bad game, last night wasn't bad...the Jets game wasn't great, but not horrific like last year. As long as they keep playing like they're playing, I predict they'll squeak into 8th with 50 points.

sommervr 03-15-2013 07:32 AM

Leafs played relatively well last. They just weren't good enough to finish once Pit got a little desperate.
This is the collapse problem we are seeing. Other teams elevate their games when they have to but the leafs don't.
Winnipeg has elevated their game. We will see soon if the leafs have an answer.

saffronleaf 03-15-2013 07:38 AM

The game against Winnipeg will be so crucial. Aside from demonstrating that this isn't a horrible collapse reminiscent of last season, it's also extremely important in the standings. Right now we're almost out of the playoffs; if the Rangers capitalize on their games in hand, we will be out of the playoffs as it is right now.

MapleLeafGardens* 03-15-2013 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saffronleaf (Post 61698719)
When I heard that this season was going to be shortened almost by half, I was hoping that we had a 50/50 chance of making the playoffs. Last season, we had a great first half and a horrendous second half. The season before that, we had a horrible first half and a great second half to the season. I was hoping that we would either get the good half or the bad half for the entire season, since this season is only half as long.

But it seems that my intuition was wrong. Are we repeating last year's epic collapse? The second half of this season has basically started with a four game losing streak. There seems to be no rhyme or reason, either. Oftentimes we find the Leafs playing well against good teams and playing poorly against poor teams, or vice-versa. But in the second half of this season, we seem to be losing indiscriminately.

I don't know if I can take another epic collapse, but it all seems so eerily similar. Those "what are the chances the Leafs will make the playoffs" threads had been pumping out similar numbers -- saying that the Leafs have 90%+ chance of making it. And then... now we're barely hanging on by a thread. Another couple losses and we'll be out of the playoffs.

Any thoughts?

Does this team just lack the killer instinct to put things away? I mean, we've seen them constantly give up leads within games -- failing to execute and put away games. Is that indicative of their capacity to hold onto season points leads?

I'm getting nervous.

Here we go the pressure to make the playoffs games are here and Burke's scrubs look set to prove once again they can't step up.

Another Leaf epic collapse has already begun.

MajorityRules 03-15-2013 08:09 AM

Fire Nonis and bring Burke back. This team is crap without him.

BonMorrison 03-15-2013 08:12 AM

We need to win two out of the next three to convince me we're not tail-spinning right now.

mashedpotato 03-15-2013 08:13 AM

What I want to know is :


Prior to the current losing streak - where were these suggestions re. sacking "Burke's Cancers" ?

This is bandwagon mentallity is gone epidemic. Once the team strings together a couple of wins, the cancer will go into remission and the patient can resume normal function. Until then, I'm prescribing heavy doeses of shut-the-**** up.

Please take.

Hockey Crazy 03-15-2013 08:13 AM

They played one of their best games of the season last night. I'm not too worried. We need to get a three game winning streak now with WPG, TB, BUF before our back to back with Boston.

416Leafer 03-15-2013 08:16 AM

Reimer, Scrivens, Kadri, JVR, and Frattin all started off with career year numbers. I dont think it was realistic to expect them to continue at that pace indefinitely.

Thats not the concerning part though. The concerning part is the team-wide increase in defensive breakdowns over the last few weeks. Team defense doesnt tend to be streaky... Except for the Leafs at least.


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