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-   -   Which player had the best skillset in their prime? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1376945)

87center 03-15-2013 04:39 PM

Which player had the best skillset in their prime?
 
Things to take into consideration: Skating, overall shooting ability, hockey sense, passing and playmaking, puck control, checking in the offensive and defensive zone.

Note: Crosby is included even though he is in prime right now. Moreover, I believe we have seen Ovi`s best years so I included him as well.

Sky04 03-15-2013 05:03 PM

Mario, Jagr, Crosby.

silkyjohnson50 03-15-2013 05:03 PM

By your criteria I'd say Fedorov. One of the greatest skaters (both speed and power), rocket shot, very good puck handler and hockey sense, phenomenal defensive checking ability.

Lemieux's off the chart level of skill, physical talent, and IQ should make him #1 though.

Big Phil 03-15-2013 05:10 PM

How do you not pick Gretzky here? Where was his weakness? His shot was as accurate as anyone's. Not hard, but accurate. He didn't have blinding speed and his skating was choppy but it got him from point A to point B. When you start adding playmaking, hockey sense and vision it is hard not to pick him. He also had wonderful puck control.

On this list I give Mario the #2 spot. He had much of what Gretzky did but with better hands and more physical gifts. Was a step down in hockey IQ but definitely a step up over the rest on here (hey, it's Gretzky).

I am taking into account just how did this in the context of the game. Someone said Fedorov and while he fits all of these qualities I don't he did it with enough regularity in an NHL game to be considered here. It kind of reminds of a list TSN did naming the top 10 talented NHL players and they put Kovalev on there. Kovalev didn't use his talents nearly enough to be considered near the top. Gretzky meanwhile was always thinking ahead on the ice every second and never wasted his talents.

Surprised to see Lindros on here. He was the full package - except when it came to his head and that's a big factor for me.

Gretzky is still my pick.

silkyjohnson50 03-15-2013 05:15 PM

Yeah, I'm probably over thinking it. Gretzky would seemingly be the easy choice.

I was putting more emphasis on the pure physical talent.

Yamaguchi 03-15-2013 05:15 PM

Since Bob Nystrom is not included in the poll, I was forced to vote for the legendary Sergei Fedorov.


This was a no-brainer.

TheDevilMadeMe 03-15-2013 05:15 PM

As soon as I saw that hockey sense and passing and playmaking were included as skills to consider, I picked Gretzky.

Dennis Bonvie 03-15-2013 06:04 PM

Was Bobby Orr not listed so that everyone else would have a chance?

TheDevilMadeMe 03-15-2013 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie (Post 61726843)
Was Bobby Orr not listed so that everyone else would have a chance?

I wondered about that, but assume he was just listing forwards.

Elever 03-15-2013 06:11 PM

Jagr and Gretzky. The others had more of a reliance on speed or power and IQ. Jagr had that too I guess.

When you say skills, I thinkvof best hands and those two guys relied on their hands a bit more than the rest of the list.

87center 03-15-2013 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie (Post 61726843)
Was Bobby Orr not listed so that everyone else would have a chance?

No. I just wanted to list forwards. Although, Orr might walk it if he was listed in the poll.

87center 03-15-2013 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Phil (Post 61725019)
How do you not pick Gretzky here? Where was his weakness? His shot was as accurate as anyone's. Not hard, but accurate. He didn't have blinding speed and his skating was choppy but it got him from point A to point B. When you start adding playmaking, hockey sense and vision it is hard not to pick him. He also had wonderful puck control.

On this list I give Mario the #2 spot. He had much of what Gretzky did but with better hands and more physical gifts. Was a step down in hockey IQ but definitely a step up over the rest on here (hey, it's Gretzky).

I am taking into account just how did this in the context of the game. Someone said Fedorov and while he fits all of these qualities I don't he did it with enough regularity in an NHL game to be considered here. It kind of reminds of a list TSN did naming the top 10 talented NHL players and they put Kovalev on there. Kovalev didn't use his talents nearly enough to be considered near the top. Gretzky meanwhile was always thinking ahead on the ice every second and never wasted his talents.

Surprised to see Lindros on here. He was the full package - except when it came to his head and that's a big factor for me.

Gretzky is still my pick.

I think Feds deserves to be listed as Gretzky and Yzerman have gone on record saying that he`s the most talented player they have ever seen. Moreover, when you look at Fedorov`s prime and Kovalev`s prime the former accomplished a lot more. I`m not sure what you mean by "Lindros head"? Are you talking about durability here or hockey IQ? Lindros was a talented physical specimen in his prime. Great wrist shot, slap shot, checking ability, and underrated skating ability. He was powerful skater that was very hard to knock off the puck.

Yamaguchi 03-15-2013 06:22 PM

I can't believe that Bure is ahead of Lemieux

Darth Yoda 03-15-2013 06:23 PM

No doubt Lemieux. Gretzky fans are groupies. 99 had the passing and anticipation but 66 was not far behind. Lemieux physical edge and goal scoring makes up for this.

Big Phil 03-15-2013 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 87center (Post 61727523)
I think Feds deserves to be listed as Gretzky and Yzerman have gone on record saying that he`s the most talented player they have ever seen. Moreover, when you look at Fedorov`s prime and Kovalev`s prime the former accomplished a lot more. I`m not sure what you mean by "Lindros head"? Are you talking about durability here or hockey IQ? Lindros was a talented physical specimen in his prime. Great wrist shot, slap shot, checking ability, and underrated skating ability. He was powerful skater that was very hard to knock off the puck.

One was a teammate of his and the other was Gretzky who compliments everyone. I have heard him say the same thing about Kent Nilsson being the most talented he's ever seen.

Fedorov just coasted too often for my liking. In the postseason, he was always money, but in an 82 game season year in and year out, game in and game out, he could have shown more of his talents in my opinion.

As for Lindros, yeah I think his hockey sense was too far behind some of the others on here. Lots of issues with him there. Skating with his head down, constantly, ring a bell at all? You didn't see the others do that.

Killion 03-15-2013 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 87center (Post 61723919)
Things to take into consideration: Skating, overall shooting ability, hockey sense, passing and playmaking, puck control, checking in the offensive and defensive zone.

Okay, and as Im reading this criteria as overall, Im thinking the 2nd tiers of players, guys who were total Professors. If exclusively forwards, guys like Bob Gainey, Henri Richard, Dave Keon, Doug Gilmour, Datsyuk etc.

pdd 03-15-2013 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Long Duk Dong (Post 61736161)
Anyone who doesn't vote for Lemieux should be hit with a slightly large stick.

Lemieux is handily beaten by Fedorov in the areas of skating, defense, checking, slapshot, and (although it wasn't listed) durability.

Basically the question, as I read it anyway, is "who is the best all-around player". Other forwards who could have been mentioned (based on a high level of talent and/or all-around prowess) include Gordie Howe, Steve Yzerman, Bryan Trottier, Bobby Clarke, Mark Messier, Jari Kurri, Jean Beliveau, Maurice Richard, Bobby Hull, and Stan Mikita.

pdd 03-15-2013 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Phil (Post 61725019)
How do you not pick Gretzky here? Where was his weakness? His shot was as accurate as anyone's. Not hard, but accurate. He didn't have blinding speed and his skating was choppy but it got him from point A to point B. When you start adding playmaking, hockey sense and vision it is hard not to pick him. He also had wonderful puck control.

On this list I give Mario the #2 spot. He had much of what Gretzky did but with better hands and more physical gifts. Was a step down in hockey IQ but definitely a step up over the rest on here (hey, it's Gretzky).

I am taking into account just how did this in the context of the game. Someone said Fedorov and while he fits all of these qualities I don't he did it with enough regularity in an NHL game to be considered here. It kind of reminds of a list TSN did naming the top 10 talented NHL players and they put Kovalev on there. Kovalev didn't use his talents nearly enough to be considered near the top. Gretzky meanwhile was always thinking ahead on the ice every second and never wasted his talents.

Surprised to see Lindros on here. He was the full package - except when it came to his head and that's a big factor for me.

Gretzky is still my pick.

Ultimately, I can understand arguments for three answers from the list.

Gretzky. The argument being that although he had weaknesses in certain areas (defense/checking being the most notable), he was so good at others that it more than compensated. He is the choice if you are choosing based on which player is the best overall player, or if you are choosing based on who is able to best utilize the skills they did have.

Lemieux. He didn't have Gretzky's hockey IQ, but was a better skater and physical player. He is the choice if you are choosing based on which player is the most naturally gifted.

Fedorov. He was good at everything. Arguably the best skater the league has ever seen, elite defender, stellar puckhandling, massive and accurate shot, and an excellent playmaker. And he had a high hockey IQ. He is the only player on the list who has/had no weaknesses. He is the choice if you are choosing based on which player has the most well-rounded game.

Yamaguchi 03-15-2013 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva unit zero (Post 61738783)
Ultimately, I can understand arguments for three answers from the list.

Gretzky. The argument being that although he had weaknesses in certain areas (defense/checking being the most notable), he was so good at others that it more than compensated. He is the choice if you are choosing based on which player is the best overall player, or if you are choosing based on who is able to best utilize the skills they did have.

Lemieux. He didn't have Gretzky's hockey IQ, but was a better skater and physical player. He is the choice if you are choosing based on which player is the most naturally gifted.

Fedorov. He was good at everything. Arguably the best skater the league has ever seen, elite defender, stellar puckhandling, massive and accurate shot, and an excellent playmaker. And he had a high hockey IQ. He is the only player on the list who has/had no weaknesses. He is the choice if you are choosing based on which player has the most well-rounded game.




This was rather brilliant description of the legendary Sergei Fedorov.

LeBlondeDemon10 03-15-2013 09:55 PM

Well, I am a little miffed that the OP showed no love for The Flower, Orr and Perreault, but I'm guessing that the OP is a little younger and is basing this poll on the players he has seen. No problem.

I voted for Gretzky. I have never seen a player use both sides of his stick in passing and shooting as skilled as the Great One. He could do anything with the puck when he needed to. He rarely looked down at the puck and his control of it was amazing. His shot is the most underrated in NHL history and his skating is also very underrated. He had the best hockey sense/anticipation I have ever witnessed. His breakways were one of the amazing things I have ever seen. He was literally 2-3 steps ahead of the player chasing him and I can't recall of anyone ever catching him. Mentally he was playing on a different level.

VanIslander 03-15-2013 10:24 PM

Gee, a limited selection of odd entrants, but, of those listed:

Skating: Bure
overall shooting ability: Jagr
hockey sense: Gretzky
passing: Gretzky
playmaking: Gretzky
puck control: Lemieux or Forsberg
checking: Fedorov

No one else is tops in multiple categories, so Gretz gets my vote.

pdd 03-15-2013 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanIslander (Post 61741303)
Gee, a limited selection of odd entrants, but, of those listed:

Skating: Bure
overall shooting ability: Jagr
hockey sense: Gretzky
passing: Gretzky
playmaking: Gretzky
puck control: Lemieux or Forsberg
checking: Fedorov

No one else is tops in multiple categories, so Gretz gets my vote.

Following your train of thought, here are my votes:

Skating: Fedorov
overall shooting ability: Lemieux
hockey sense: Gretzky
passing: Gretzky
playmaking: Gretzky
puck control: Lemieux
defense/checking: Fedorov

vadim sharifijanov 03-15-2013 10:47 PM

if you tested these guys at a combine and ranked all the skills out of ten, fedorov probably has the highest score if you added them all up.

of course, gretzky had the best skillset. the cliche about tools and the toolbox, as always, turns out to be true. kovalev had some nice tools, but he was missing some key pieces and the box was made out of cardboard.

BraveCanadian 03-15-2013 11:00 PM

Gretzky.

He is so off the charts in hockey sense, passing and playmaking it more than makes up for the rest.

Not to mention he was a great puckhandler, incredibly agile skater with the puck, and had a superbly accurate shot despite it not being a cannon.

The most well rounded is probably Fedorov or possibly Crosby or Jagr.

Morgoth Bauglir 03-15-2013 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 87center (Post 61727523)
I think Feds deserves to be listed as Gretzky and Yzerman have gone on record saying that he`s the most talented player they have ever seen.

Gretzky's said that about a hundred other players too.....


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