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MoneyGuy 03-17-2013 06:24 PM

Scouts re-rank draft
 
Yak still ranks No. 1.

I find these things fascinating. It would be great to see re-rankings in a year or two.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...NHL-draft.html

Quote:

Based on the feedback from scouts, we re-ranked the order of the 2011 first round in Future Watch 2013. Had it been held today, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and Gabriel Landeskog would still be at the top of the list (don’t let RNH’s recent struggles cloud the big picture on him). I won’t give away all the results because it’s in the issue, but interesting evaluations to cull from it are: Dougie Hamilton would have moved way up from being selected ninth overall to inside the top five; and Duncan Siemens (11th overall) and Jamie Oleksiak (14th) would have slipped outside the top 20.

Of course, this exercise doesn’t take into consideration individual team preferences. Though we’ll never know for sure publicly, maybe the Colorado Avalanche would still take Siemens 11th overall even though the scouting community at large wouldn’t touch him until at least the 20th pick.

So how about the 2012 first round? How might that unfold in the eyes of a scouting panel if we were to re-convene today? After a half season of evaluation to consider, here’s the revised order based on voting for the top 50 prospects in Future Watch 2013.

1. Nail Yakupov, RW (actually taken 1st by Edmonton)
2. Alex Galchenyuk, C (taken 3rd by Montreal)
3. Ryan Murray, D (taken 2nd by Columbus)

PDO 03-17-2013 06:37 PM

Wish it went deeper and we could see if Moroz is even in the top 100... :shakehead

topchowda 03-17-2013 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDO (Post 61856283)
Wish it went deeper and we could see if Moroz is even in the top 100... :shakehead

Bad pick in the 2nd round, I dont mind the player, but IMO, hes a 3-4th round talent.

Scouts made up for it a bit with Khaira/Laleggia and Zharkov.

Passed up on some good talent in the second round thats going to come back and bite us

dnicks17 03-17-2013 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topchowda (Post 61856543)
Bad pick in the 2nd round, I dont mind the player, but IMO, hes a 3-4th round talent.

Scouts made up for it a bit with Khaira/Laleggia and Zharkov.

Passed up on some good talent in the second round thats going to come back and bite us

Like who?

Finn, Collberg and Thrower were the main guys talked about on this board for our 2nd rounder. It's not like any of them are having above average seasons or realistically project as better prospects.

People will say Frk because of his numbers. Playing with MacKinnon and Drouin will do that. He still can't skate.

You have to go all the way to the end of the round to really find a couple of guys who have stood out post-draft in Severson and Nieves.

topchowda 03-17-2013 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnicks17 (Post 61857165)
Like who?

Finn, Collberg and Thrower were the main guys talked about on this board for our 2nd rounder. It's not like any of them are having above average seasons or realistically project as better prospects.

People will say Frk because of his numbers. Playing with MacKinnon and Drouin will do that. He still can't skate.

You have to go all the way to the end of the round to really find a couple of guys who have stood out post-draft in Severson and Nieves.

Finn, Thrower are two. Collberg and Kerdiles I liked as well. I just think there were a fair amount of guys in the second round with top 4/top 6 potential. Whereas Mitch Moroz doesnt have that potential, all the scouting reports comment how he plays a physical game but doesnt have the skills, IQ to be top 6, but more of a bottom 6 checker. Those guys can be found in later rounds.

PDO 03-17-2013 07:10 PM

It's one thing to take a risk with #57.

Being dumb with #32 is a whole different story. Absolute waste of a very high pick. Zach Stortini showed more in his second year after draft than Moroz did.

Perfect_Drug 03-17-2013 07:12 PM

I find it interesting Mark Jangkowski is even listed. The way you guys describe him, he'd be lucky to be given an ECHL tryout.

dnicks17 03-17-2013 07:14 PM

Just as much risk as anyone else in that range.

The chances of Moroz ending up a top9 forward is the same as Finn or Collberg overcoming their size, Thrower learning to play defense or Frk improving his skating to an NHL level.

PDO 03-17-2013 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnicks17 (Post 61858181)
Just as much risk as anyone else in that range.

The chances of Moroz ending up a top9 forward is the same as Finn or Collberg overcoming their size, Thrower learning to play defense or Frk improving his skating to an NHL level.

Learning defense or working on your skating is a heckuva lot more likely than becoming a hockey player. Oilers took a goon at #32. Someone should be fired for that. That's worse than taking Abney at #67 - at least you have minimal expectations for a guy there.

One of the reasons the Oiler's are struggling is that the only draft pick in the last 5 years not taken in the first round making any kind of impact is Jeff Petry.

dnicks17 03-17-2013 07:24 PM

Well, if you consider him a goon, I can see why you'd be unhappy with the pick.

PDO 03-17-2013 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnicks17 (Post 61858795)
Well, if you consider him a goon, I can see why you'd be unhappy with the pick.

What else would you call a 19 year old forward who was .5 PPG but had 140 PIM?

For reference, Milan Lucic had 30 goals and was a PPG as a 19 year old.

Petro Points 03-17-2013 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDO (Post 61857895)
It's one thing to take a risk with #57.

Being dumb with #32 is a whole different story. Absolute waste of a very high pick. Zach Stortini showed more in his second year after draft than Moroz did.

Are Pitlick and Lander any better than Moroz? Both were also very high 2nd round picks.. Musil looks promising but probably wont be anything more than a 6/7 Nhl Dman. Our (high)2nd round picks havent been very good

dnicks17 03-17-2013 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDO (Post 61859317)
What else would you call a 19 year old forward who was .5 PPG but had 140 PIM?

For reference, Milan Lucic had 30 goals and was a PPG as a 19 year old.

That's as useful as me saying he has basically the same numbers as Alex Burrows did as a 19 year old.

Judging a prospect based on stats is a waste of time.

Mr Forever 03-17-2013 07:57 PM

I'm amazed Murray is still ranked high. Why do people think so high of him? I'd take Reinhart, Reily and Trouba before him. So underwhelming.

Seachd 03-17-2013 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDO (Post 61858245)
Oilers took a goon at #32. Someone should be fired for that.

Fired for taking a player they like: a) 32nd overall? And b) less than one year after the fact?

Maasive overreaction on both accounts.

PDO 03-17-2013 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnicks17 (Post 61860515)
That's as useful as me saying he has basically the same numbers as Alex Burrows did as a 19 year old.

Judging a prospect based on stats is a waste of time.

You're using an undrafted player as an argument for why a guy taken #32 OV was a good pick? Really?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seachd (Post 61860757)
Fired for taking a player they like: a) 32nd overall? And b) less than one year after the fact?

Maasive overreaction on both accounts.

A) Is irrelevant.
B) It was a bad pick then. It's a worse pick now.

How many NHLers score less than < .5 PPG in their 19 year old year in the CHL?

I'd bet it's than 10%.

dnicks17 03-17-2013 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDO (Post 61861007)
You're using an undrafted player as an argument for why a guy taken #32 OV was a good pick? Really?

Read it again.

You clearly missed the point.

Bryanbryoil 03-17-2013 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDO (Post 61859317)
What else would you call a 19 year old forward who was .5 PPG but had 140 PIM?

For reference, Milan Lucic had 30 goals and was a PPG as a 19 year old.

Lucic is one of the best power forwards in the NHL, forgive me if I don't throw Moroz under the bus for not emulating Lucic's success. If Moroz ends up as a 3rd liner that hits, fights, and scores 15-20 points a year that'd be a pretty valuable asset on a team full of smurfs.

Seachd 03-17-2013 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDO (Post 61861007)
A) Is irrelevant.

If it's irrelevant, why are you using it as criteria for "someone should be fired"? Seems very relevant, because one of your major issues seems to be that it was the 32nd pick, and not the 182nd pick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDO (Post 61861007)
B) It was a bad pick then. It's a worse pick now.

Great, you believe that. How is that any better than being a good pick at the time, but a bad pick now? When we see the final result, it doesn't matter what the pick looked like at specific points in time.

I'm not saying it will be a good pick or a bad pick. I think "someone should be fired" because of it is a ridiculous statement.

Agron 03-17-2013 10:43 PM

yeah not a huge fan of that moroz pick either

PDO 03-17-2013 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnicks17 (Post 61861065)
Read it again.

You clearly missed the point.

I think you did.

All Moroz has done his entire career is be a goon. Expecting him to magically become something else is insane.

Using stats is the easiest way to project prospects.

PDO 03-17-2013 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil (Post 61864351)
Lucic is one of the best power forwards in the NHL, forgive me if I don't throw Moroz under the bus for not emulating Lucic's success. If Moroz ends up as a 3rd liner that hits, fights, and scores 15-20 points a year that'd be a pretty valuable asset on a team full of smurfs.

And an absolutely terrible use of of the 32nd pick in a draft. guys like that are a dime a dozen - pretty sure we just waived one of them. I used Lucic because saying "he might be him" is the ONLY justifiable reason to use a pick that high on that type of player.

PDO 03-17-2013 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seachd (Post 61864597)
If it's irrelevant, why are you using it as criteria for "someone should be fired"? Seems very relevant, because one of your major issues seems to be that it was the 32nd pick, and not the 182nd pick.

"They still like the terrible player we took at #32" just screams "THEY SHOULD ALL BE FIRED" more than anything.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Seachd (Post 61864597)
Great, you believe that. How is that any better than being a good pick at the time, but a bad pick now? When we see the final result, it doesn't matter what the pick looked like at specific points in time.

I'm not saying it will be a good pick or a bad pick. I think "someone should be fired" because of it is a ridiculous statement.

I think drafting a FORWARD who played in the CHL and scored 20 points in his draft year year and 30 points the year following is beyond a terrible fail. I think doing that in the range that good teams consider first round picks shows that your staff can't do anything but pick #1s.

By the way - outside of first round picks - what Oiler prospects are challenging for top 9 or top 4 duty next year? Keep in mind this team has had a pick at #31 or #32 3 years running.

Wheatking 03-17-2013 11:02 PM

I wonder where Klefbom is ranked now.

Senor Catface 03-17-2013 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDO (Post 61870547)
"They still like the terrible player we took at #32" just screams "THEY SHOULD ALL BE FIRED" more than anything.




I think drafting a FORWARD who played in the CHL and scored 20 points in his draft year year and 30 points the year following is beyond a terrible fail. I think doing that in the range that good teams consider first round picks shows that your staff can't do anything but pick #1s.

By the way - outside of first round picks - what Oiler prospects are challenging for top 9 or top 4 duty next year? Keep in mind this team has had a pick at #31 or #32 3 years running.

Jujhar Khaira looks pretty good...


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