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-   -   Helene St. James: Tough Sledding (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1378887)

Huge Jackman 03-18-2013 06:53 AM

Tough Sledding
 
Interesting article. Maybe Babcock is saner than I thought :)

http://www.freep.com/article/2013031...s-winning-ways

"Now Z and Pav got legitimate players to play with. For a while there, it was heavy sledding for those guys."

Looks like Helm will be back on Wednesday, wonder who will get sent down... probably between Anderson and Nyquist... probably Nyquist.

Henkka 03-18-2013 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melbourne Ice (Post 61876757)
Interesting article. Maybe Babcock is saner than I thought :)

http://www.freep.com/article/2013031...s-winning-ways

"Now Z and Pav got legitimate players to play with. For a while there, it was heavy sledding for those guys."

Looks like Helm will be back on Wednesday, wonder who will get sent down... probably between Anderson and Nyquist... probably Nyquist.

It's Andersson who plays at Helm's role. I think he will be sent down.

jerrymac 03-18-2013 07:11 AM

I think it should be Andersson but they did mention the other week that he just got an apartment in Detroit so that could mean he was told he'd be staying.

DRWCountryClub 03-18-2013 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerrymac (Post 61876915)
I think it should be Andersson but they did mention the other week that he just got an apartment in Detroit so that could mean he was told he'd be staying.

He's better than Emmerton.

JPE123 03-18-2013 07:23 AM

What about the worthless twins, Sammy and CC?

GT500x 03-18-2013 07:43 AM

Nyquist is going down. I'm basing this on the fact that Anderson is better defensively, mostly because he's bigger and harder to knock off the puck. Players can sneeze on Nyquist and he falls.

The Nose 03-18-2013 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT500x (Post 61877337)
Nyquist is going down. I'm basing this on the fact that Anderson is better defensively, mostly because he's bigger and harder to knock off the puck. Players can sneeze on Nyquist and he falls.

He's not that weak. He's stronger than Brunner. But yeah that could possibly happen, I'd be pissed if it does.

ChadS 03-18-2013 08:30 AM

They said Nyquist is going down in yesterday's Griffins game. They should have a good playoff run ahead of them down there.

EDIT. Just when I posted this, Khan confirmed:
Quote:

Ansar Khan @AnsarKhanMLive
Wings have reassigned Gustav Nyquist to Grand Rapids.

The Nose 03-18-2013 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChadS (Post 61878213)
They said Nyquist is going down in yesterday's Griffins game. They should have a good playoff run ahead of them down there.

EDIT. Just when I posted this, Khan confirmed:

I have no hope for this teams future.

Zetterberg4Captain 03-18-2013 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Nose (Post 61878681)
I have no hope for this teams future.

I think they want Nyquist and Tatar to help push GR in the AHL playoffs as deep and as far as they can go to get that winning experience that they wont likely get in Detroit this year, but who knows really

probertrules24 03-18-2013 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChadS (Post 61878213)
They said Nyquist is going down in yesterday's Griffins game. They should have a good playoff run ahead of them down there.

EDIT. Just when I posted this, Khan confirmed:

Let's not all pretend we didn't know this was going to happen. No need to get in an uproar over Holland and how he should be fired. I understand that everybody wants to see Tatar and Nyquist playing but right now they have a shot at playing huge minutes in the playoffs for the Grifs while the Wings roster is getting healthier. I would rather have Andersson sitting in the press box or being the 12th forward than the other two.

All I"m saying is we knew this was going to happen so lets not pretend were shocked and start another Holland and Babcock suck thread. I can't wait to get Helm back to help out the bottom 6.

RedWingsNow* 03-18-2013 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by probertrules24 (Post 61879197)
Let's not all pretend we didn't know this was going to happen. No need to get in an uproar over Holland and how he should be fired. I understand that everybody wants to see Tatar and Nyquist playing but right now they have a shot at playing huge minutes in the playoffs for the Grifs while the Wings roster is getting healthier. I would rather have Andersson sitting in the press box or being the 12th forward than the other two.

All I"m saying is we knew this was going to happen so lets not pretend were shocked and start another Holland and Babcock suck thread. I can't wait to get Helm back to help out the bottom 6.

The fact that we knew this was going to happen is a good reason to start a Holland or Babcock sucks thread.

14ari13 03-18-2013 09:30 AM

I am really glad we are getting Helm back. He is such an important player for this team.

shultzyfeelinirie20 03-18-2013 10:26 AM

When do the AHL playoffs start??

Xvash2 03-18-2013 10:50 AM

I gotta say, Nyquist looked nowhere near as energetic as Tatar during Tatar's stint with the Wings, I expected more out of the Goose while playing with Datsyuk, which seemed to be everyone's wish?

InjuredChoker 03-18-2013 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shultzyfeelinirie20 (Post 61881751)
When do the AHL playoffs start??

Reg. season ends April 21st. So guess few days after that.

TheMoreYouKnow 03-18-2013 11:01 AM

Nyquist and Tartar are nowhere near as good as people here wish them to be. It's a typical fan phenomenon with teams perceived to be underperforming, like how the backup QB's supposed quality tends to increase parallel to a decline in the starting QB's fortunes.

You could still play them of course if you focus on the future and harbor no ambitions for this year, but management refuses to go down that path. And judging by the reactions in game threads or the heated debate about line combinations, it doesn't seem like a lot of fans are ready to subscribe to that view either.

Guru Meditation 03-18-2013 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow (Post 61883183)
Nyquist and Tartar are nowhere near as good as people here wish them to be. It's a typical fan phenomenon with teams perceived to be underperforming, like how the backup QB's supposed quality tends to increase parallel to a decline in the starting QB's fortunes.

So let me get this straight. Tatar comes up, plays about 10 minutes a game, and scores on par for about 18 goals and 31 points, and he's not as good as we thought he is? Well, we at minimum thought he was good enough to keep playing on that 3rd line. Are you saying he isn't?

Nyquist comes up, has an assist in his first game, goes one game without a point (but he wasn't a minus or a defensive liability in that game), gets scratched and is sent down.

So, here: defend your claim that Tatar isn't good enough to play on the Wings' 3rd line and explain why Nyquist got enough of a shot to prove that he's not NHL material.

RedWingsNow* 03-18-2013 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow (Post 61883183)
Nyquist and Tartar are nowhere near as good as people here wish them to be. It's a typical fan phenomenon with teams perceived to be underperforming, like how the backup QB's supposed quality tends to increase parallel to a decline in the starting QB's fortunes.

You could still play them of course if you focus on the future and harbor no ambitions for this year, but management refuses to go down that path. And judging by the reactions in game threads or the heated debate about line combinations, it doesn't seem like a lot of fans are ready to subscribe to that view either.

Nyquist was underwhelming, but I saw some flashes.

Tatar, on the other hand, is beyond ready for a top 6 role.

Guru Meditation 03-18-2013 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xvash2 (Post 61882755)
I gotta say, Nyquist looked nowhere near as energetic as Tatar during Tatar's stint with the Wings, I expected more out of the Goose while playing with Datsyuk, which seemed to be everyone's wish?

Thing is, that's never been Nyquist's game. Nyquist is a sneaky player who waits for the right opening. He's deadly because of hockey sense, but needs space. He can't create it for himself. You can see why it's a problem to have both Franzen and Nyquist on Datsyuk's wing, because neither of them create space. That line was a non-starter.

Tatar's game is just to skate everywhere and show off his hands. Tatar did a bit better because he didn't really have to learn his linemates; it's just "we chip the puck around and skate really hard." Not only did he play with guys who created space, but his game creates space anyway. It's no big surprise that Tatar did well.

Think about Nyquist's line from GR: Andersson went to the net and created space and Tatar would drag defenders all over the place. Those two gave Nyquist a lot of room. I don't think Nyquist has had a line that complimented him since he played with Bertuzzi and Datsyuk last year. For all the trash we've loved to talk about Bertuzzi, he's a ton better at creating space than Franzen is.

probertrules24 03-18-2013 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru Meditation (Post 61884215)
Thing is, that's never been Nyquist's game. Nyquist is a sneaky player who waits for the right opening. He's deadly because of hockey sense, but needs space. He can't create it for himself. You can see why it's a problem to have both Franzen and Nyquist on Datsyuk's wing, because neither of them create space. That line was a non-starter.

Not sure if I follow what your saying. I wouldn't think theres another player other then Crosby who's going to create more space for their linemates. Most teams players are cheating towards Datsyuk when ever he's on the ice because they know he's the guy to key on. This will leave the other guys with a little more space.

I believe Nyquist is going to be a good player but I've always thought Tatar's game translates a little better. Nyquist just hasn't made a huge case during his call ups. That doesn't mean he won't but I haven't seen him steal any body's job.

Guru Meditation 03-18-2013 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by probertrules24 (Post 61884731)
Not sure if I follow what your saying. I wouldn't think theres another player other then Crosby who's going to create more space for their linemates. Most teams players are cheating towards Datsyuk when ever he's on the ice because they know he's the guy to key on. This will leave the other guys with a little more space.

I believe Nyquist is going to be a good player but I've always thought Tatar's game translates a little better. Nyquist just hasn't made a huge case during his call ups. That doesn't mean he won't but I haven't seen him steal any body's job.

One thing I've noticed is Nyquist isn't that great at receiving a pass and then protecting the puck. I think he needs to work on that, but I also think he would have done fine on that 3rd line spot like Tatar did. The difference is that he didn't really get a shot at it.

But that said, I didn't think Datsyuk used his linemates very much in Nyquist's first game as a callup. It looked like a one man show out there.

Henkka 03-18-2013 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain (Post 61879001)
I think they want Nyquist and Tatar to help push GR in the AHL playoffs as deep and as far as they can go to get that winning experience that they wont likely get in Detroit this year.

Pretty much this. Let the boys finish their "graduate season" in a perfect way, with an AHL Championship.

In few weeks they are getting Ryan Sproul there, and then things are starting to be really interesting.

TheMoreYouKnow 03-18-2013 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru Meditation (Post 61883861)
So let me get this straight. Tatar comes up, plays about 10 minutes a game, and scores on par for about 18 goals and 31 points, and he's not as good as we thought he is? Well, we at minimum thought he was good enough to keep playing on that 3rd line. Are you saying he isn't?

Nyquist comes up, has an assist in his first game, goes one game without a point (but he wasn't a minus or a defensive liability in that game), gets scratched and is sent down.

So, here: defend your claim that Tatar isn't good enough to play on the Wings' 3rd line and explain why Nyquist got enough of a shot to prove that he's not NHL material.

Tatar's numbers aren't terrible but not so great that other deficiencies in his game couldn't easily outweigh that relative positive. There have been many examples of that in the history of the league.

I don't think Tatar and Nyquist are incapable of playing in the NHL but I also see little evidence to suggest they are the "answer" to the Wings' problems.

The Nose 03-18-2013 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow (Post 61885725)
Tatar's numbers aren't terrible but not so great that other deficiencies in his game couldn't easily outweigh that relative positive. There have been many examples of that in the history of the league.

I don't think Tatar and Nyquist are incapable of playing in the NHL but I also see little evidence to suggest they are the "answer" to the Wings' problems.

What the hell are his other defincies? Quit making excuses.


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