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-   -   Canucks to buy Riverman? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1379431)

Senko1291 03-18-2013 09:13 PM

Canucks to buy Riverman?
 
So I am sorry if this has been posted or talked about already so if it I apologize ahead of time.

A friend of mine sent me a link today of an artical that was wrote ahout the Canucks buying them. I was in a hurry and just wanted to know if maby some of you guys could shed some light on this for me. What does this mean for the beloved riverman?

Bluesman91 03-18-2013 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I BLEED BLUE (Post 61918463)
So I am sorry if this has been posted or talked about already so if it I apologize ahead of time.

A friend of mine sent me a link today of an artical that was wrote ahout the Canucks buying them. I was in a hurry and just wanted to know if maby some of you guys could shed some light on this for me. What does this mean for the beloved riverman?

Pick a new affiliate, a new face for our prospects.

Alklha 03-18-2013 09:21 PM

There is a bit of talk about it in the Peoria sticky. Calgary are moving their AHL team (Abbotsford Heat) to New York, so Vancouver are rumoured to be buying the Peoria Rivermen and moving the franchise to Abbotsford.

The Blues will then partner with the Chicago Wolves. On the face of it, the story makes a lot of sense.

Having read up on the Chicago Wolves, it would appear to be a pretty negative move for the Blues. We'll see though...

Brez50 03-18-2013 09:31 PM

Nooooo!!!

I've watched the Rivermen for many years (was almost a season ticket holder back in my early days).

I don't want to see the Blues lose them.

Just One Cup 03-18-2013 11:29 PM

I hate this, the only move the Blues should make is maybe move the Riverman to the family arena. It so close and perfect for a AHL team, but I guess the Chill will be taking it. Sucks if they go, I don't want our prospects playing in Chicago...

bleedblue1223 03-18-2013 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oshie97 (Post 61934209)
I hate this, the only move the Blues should make is maybe move the Riverman to the family arena. It so close and perfect for a AHL team, but I guess the Chill will be taking it. Sucks if they go, I don't want our prospects playing in Chicago...

Chicago would be better IMO. A Chicago team will be more attractive to European prospects than a Peoria team.

PocketNines 03-18-2013 11:57 PM

Maby the riverman will be bought.

Alklha 03-19-2013 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 (Post 61935521)
Chicago would be better IMO. A Chicago team will be more attractive to European prospects than a Peoria team.

That was my initial thought process, but the Wolves owners are more about winning than player development. There can be some crossover in that, but it is far from ideal.

ManyIdeas 03-19-2013 07:31 AM

Straight to St. Charles, then! Who cares about the Chill ;)

Alklha 03-19-2013 08:01 AM

Story here

A bit of a strange response from the Blues. To come out and say that nothing is decided, but then to deny contact with the rumoured parties? Just odd. Maybe we are more interested in moving them to somewhere like Kansas City or Indianapolis rather than selling up.

Falco Lombardi 03-19-2013 08:05 AM

Peoria seems a lot less attractive than Chicago IMO.

bleedblue1223 03-19-2013 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alklha (Post 61944617)
That was my initial thought process, but the Wolves owners are more about winning than player development. There can be some crossover in that, but it is far from ideal.

It's nit like Peoria is great at development.

Alklha 03-19-2013 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 (Post 61948343)
It's nit like Peoria is great at development.

We at least have control over that process, and this is the time that it matters with the very significant influx of talent going into our AHL team next season.

As much as we can question the development record in Peoria, we've hardly filled it with talent in recent years. All our better picks have basically bypassed the AHL to join the Blues.

Baby Blues 03-19-2013 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 (Post 61948343)
It's nit like Peoria is great at development.

So tired of these uneducated comments. The BLUES own the Rivermen organization, if the Rivermen org is not great at development, then the BLUES are not great at development. Its their players, their coaches, their GM.

Note that the word "Peoria" is not in the above statement because location (within the same league) doesn't really matter in development.

Redgren Grumbholdt 03-19-2013 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Blues (Post 61966435)
So tired of these uneducated comments. The BLUES own the Rivermen organization, if the Rivermen org is not great at development, then the BLUES are not great at development. Its their players, their coaches, their GM.

Note that the word "Peoria" is not in the above statement because location (within the same league) doesn't really matter in development.

Isnt the implication that the Blues may just sell Peoria to Vancouver and Vancouver would sell Chicago to a 3rd party, and the Blues wouldnt own an AHL team anymore but would affiliate with Chicago?

Even if the Blues do take ownership of the Wolves, it kind of makes sense for the Blues, as much as that sucks or Peorians. Chicago is much more likely to fill up a stadium than Peoria, and travel between the two is easy.

superblues 03-19-2013 04:29 PM

Makes sense to me that Stillman will sell the Rivermen and simply affiliate with another team for financial reasons. It does take a certain amount of control away from the development end, but if I understand the situation, Stillman needs results in the near term. Development isn't strong on his radar.

All IMO, IME, etc.

Baby Blues 03-19-2013 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crumblin Erb Brooks (Post 61967563)
Isnt the implication that the Blues may just sell Peoria to Vancouver and Vancouver would sell Chicago to a 3rd party, and the Blues wouldnt own an AHL team anymore but would affiliate with Chicago?

Even if the Blues do take ownership of the Wolves, it kind of makes sense for the Blues, as much as that sucks or Peorians. Chicago is much more likely to fill up a stadium than Peoria, and travel between the two is easy.

My main point had nothing to do with the sale. Its that somehow "Peoria" is bad at development. Just saying if the whole org was somewhere else "as is", it wouldn't matter.

Regarding the move, Wolves aren't owned by Van. and the Blues would not be interested in buying the Wolves (likely not for sale anyway). Without ownership, it really doesn't matter whether the Wolves make money or not to the Blues.

Some comments from those Canuck fans who've dealt with the Wolves org.

If true, the Canucks finally owning their own AHL affiliate is even better news than the fact they're moving to Abbotsford as they now are in complete control over their prospects. Goodbye Don Levin!

Very happy that the Canucks will *own* the team. This is super key.

Canucks owning their own development team is a massive gain for prospects.

Robb_K 03-19-2013 08:31 PM

The Chicago Wolves are an inependently-owned and operated AHL team, whose attendance, and therefore, income, is partly dependent upon their won-lost record. They try to assemble the best lineup they can afford, to try to win The Calder Cup (AHL championship) each year. Thus, they will limit the number of the working-agreement team's roster spots, and will fill the other spots with their self-owned Chicago Wolves "career AHLers" (high-AHL-quality veterans), and a few of their own "development players".

This means that some of The NHL working-agreement team's first year pros not good enough to start in The AHL, will not be able to beat out AHL veterans, and not be accepted by The Wolves. They will thus be forced to play in The ECHL, when, had they been owned by an NHL team who owned its own AHL franchise, they'd otherwise have been able to start out as a part-time player in The AHL.

On the other side of the coin, The Chicago Wolves are a perennial AHL power, and the Blues players who DO make their roster, will almost be guaranteed to play on a winning team.

berglund 03-19-2013 10:03 PM

Purchases and movements of affiliate teams is the most idiotic thing in the world.

Wisp 03-20-2013 12:25 AM

You guys tend to draft better than us, so a partnership with Chicago might not be so bad. Then again, it didn't work for Atlanta so well and they had some phenomenal picks.

Redgren Grumbholdt 03-20-2013 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izzy Mandelbaum (Post 62005267)
Purchases and movements of affiliate teams is the most idiotic thing in the world.

Not sure I get this, if it makes sense for all parties involved, why is it so obviously idiotic? Blues dont want to lose money on a part of the organization that hasnt produced much, Vancouver wants a team closer to them and under their control, and Calgary.... well I dont get Calgary's incentive to move their team, but they have their reasons. Minor league teams move all the time, regardless of sport. Hell, major league teams still move fairly regularly.

me2 03-20-2013 02:55 AM

Most of Vancouver's problems with Chicago can be summed up as

a) our prospects aren't getting time because, quite frankly, they aren't that good

b) the coach was making non-nonsensical decisions. That's Vancouver's hand picked and delivered coach.

No real problems with the Wolves organisation.

me2 03-20-2013 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crumblin Erb Brooks (Post 62019875)
Not sure I get this, if it makes sense for all parties involved, why is it so obviously idiotic? Blues dont want to lose money on a part of the organization that hasnt produced much, Vancouver wants a team closer to them and under their control, and Calgary.... well I dont get Calgary's incentive to move their team, but they have their reasons. Minor league teams move all the time, regardless of sport. Hell, major league teams still move fairly regularly.

Calgary are moving because some bright spark in the Flames organisation though playing Flames prospects in Flames colours under the name "Heat" in an out of the way place in the Vancouver market would be a great idea. The flames will be better off in a more friendly/neutral market. It might work better for vancouver fans who can't afford Canucks tickets.

JustOneB4IDie 03-20-2013 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alklha (Post 61945555)
Story here

A bit of a strange response from the Blues. To come out and say that nothing is decided, but then to deny contact with the rumoured parties? Just odd. Maybe we are more interested in moving them to somewhere like Kansas City or Indianapolis rather than selling up.

Odd? Yes,but not really suprised either. Meh, where there is smoke, there is fire so they say.

No Fun Shogun 03-20-2013 07:45 PM

Coming in peace, but as long as the Wolves stay affiliated with one of our rivals, I'm cool.

Despite all the *****ing and moaning that happened in our fanbase over a local team affiliating with the Nucks, the Wolves have always been far more interested in winning then developing their parent's prospects. Dollars to donuts, more than a couple of your guys' prospects' development will be held back a tad by the Wolves due to this organizational outlook, and it was for that reason that I viewed the Wolves affiliation with Vancouver as a blessing in disguise.


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